Primes since 1960 (5 years): Pele/Messi Cruyff Maradona Cristiano Platini R9 Zidane Ronaldinho/Zico Peaks: Pele Messi Maradona R9 Ronaldinho Cruyff .... Cristiano isnt in top-10.
In which world are Ronaldinho and Nazario's peak better than Cruyff's? That's ridiculous Cruyff 73/74 is the only version in history that performed at the goat level in both national and club levels. Before Cruyff's arrival, Barcelona was at the bottom with 2 wins, 2 draws and 3 losses. After Cruyff's arrival, they didn't lose 26 games in a row. He also had the second best performance in the history of the World Cup (the first without cheating). Ronaldinho and Nazario can't even dream of this
Top 30 player since 1950 1-Messi 2-Pèle 3-Maradona(quality the best) 4-Cruyff 5-CR7 6-Di Stefano 7-Bekenbauer 8-Zidane 9-Puskas 10-Platini 11-R9 12-Gerd Muller 13-Zico 14-Best 15-Eusebio 16-Matthaus 17-Maldini 18-Baresi 19-Charlton 20-Yashin 21-Ronaldinho 22-Gullit 23-Van Basten 24-Romario 25-Xavi 26-Suarez(Spain) 27-Garrincha 28-C.Alberto 29-Michael laudrup 30-Kopa
This is my BEST Footballer´s of all time List based on absolute Peak not greatest Tier 1 : Messi and Maradona Tier 2 : Footage Pele, Zico, Cristiano Ronaldo Tier 3 : Cruyff, Baggio, Ronaldo Nazario/Beckenbauer/Neymar
Cristiano's peak is a little high I put the peak of Messi, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Zico, Franz Beckenbauer and Platini higher than the peak of Cristiano.
You have admitted that he is a system player lmao If he was a good dribbler or playmaker, then why was he awful against Spain? He cannot control the game's tempo and he isn't a good playmaker His strength is off the ball movement and that's why he depends on his teammates But someone who doesn't care about the full matches and only watches highlights can't understand this
He is not a System Player. For me a System Player is someone who has no real Individual Ability and is only good in a specific Role at a specific discipline. But I still think CR7 flopped in World Cup's in General.But CR7 in 09/10 at Real Madrid was actually showing Complete Footballing Ability Dribbling Being a Great Final Third Creator and scoring amazing Different type of Goal's. I think Cristiano Is heavily depended on having Super Team's but that does not make him a System Player.
Best seasonal peaks (1 per player) Tier 1 Cruyff 73/74, Maradona 85/86, Messi 14/15, Pele 63, Platini 83/84 Tier 2 Di Stefano 56/57, Garrincha 62, Beckenbauer 73/74, Zico 81,Best 67/68, CR 16/17, R9 96/97, Eusebio 64/65, Puskas 53 -- Best primes (4 seasons in a row) Pele 62-65 Cruyff 71-74 Messi 10-13 Maradona 85-88 Platini 82-85 Di Stefano 56-59 CR 09-12 Zico 79-82 Beckenbauer 71-74 Eusebio 65-68
I've been finding once you start looking at football related tweets it's hard to stop recently lol (but they've been pretty good to see on the whole for sure anyway). Already today I've checked and found this one for example (I already made my estimated choices on the forum and went Best-Maradona-Cruyff-Ronaldo-Messi for dribbling and Platini-Hoddle-M.Laudrup-Cruyff-Didi for passing, with Pele-Garrincha-Faas Wilkes-M.Laudrup maybe the closest contenders for dribbling and Gerson-Zico-potentially Nils Liedholm-Bergkamp for passing) goated.football.opinions on X: "Top 5 Greatest Dribblers - 1. Lionel Messi 2. Pelé 3. Diego Maradona 4. George Best 5. Garrincha Top 5 Passers ever - 1. Michel Platini 2. Diego Maradona 3. Xavi Hernández 4. Lionel Messi 5. Johan Cryuff HMs - R9 , Neymar , KDB , LSM https://t.co/Ceu0fVvSeV" / X (twitter.com) But anyway among the tweets have been some player vs player comparison calls, and I got thinking that in some ways that's a more appropriate/feasible way to list the best players ever in general (as much as we all get tempted in to trying a straight list of 1 to 100 at some point). So I came up with this (feasibly it could contain my call for top 100 outfield players I guess, but it's pretty hard/impossible to definitively suggest that), including a few relative old-timers (but I don't rule out that I'd indeed see them as top 100 level anyway, or even that I'd add a few more - it's particularly hard to make a call on that though I think - in general in terms of the candidates more on the fringes of 100 names for me I erred towards good choices for the player comparisons too), based more on idea about 'best' (making this thread appropriate I guess) as in prime level rather than 'greatest' as in related to full career and making the choices a balance between close verdicts and suitable matches in terms of role/attributes, and with a descriptor for each comparison that highlights the playing qualities of both players in a complimentary way (listing each head to head alphabetically i.e the surname/football name with the letter highest up the alphabet on the left, even though I did consider already revealing my own probable calls by putting the player I'd maybe put ahead on the left instead...but decided against that at the moment).... The Prolific Magicians Lionel Messi vs Pele The Team(/assist)-Focused Super-Soloists Johan Cruyff vs Diego Maradona The Inspirational Midfield Technicians Michel Platini vs Zinedine Zidane The Playmaking Goal-Machines Alfredo Di Stefano vs Ferenc Puskas Die Turbo-powered 'Rolls-Royces' Franz Beckenbauer vs Lothar Matthaus The Talented Dynamo Winger/Forwards George Best vs Cristiano Ronaldo The Multi-Talented Strikers Ronaldo vs Marco van Basten The Super-Athletes with Football Ability Eusebio vs Karl-Heinz Rummenigge The Incisive & Decisive Attacking Midfield Legends Bobby Charlton vs Gianni Rivera The 'Big & Small' All-Timer 'Number 10s' Ruud Gullit vs Zico The Instigator Wizards Michael Laudrup vs Ronaldinho The Ball-Playing Defensive Masters Franco Baresi vs Bobby Moore The Penalty Area Geniuses Gerd Muller vs Romario The Unstoppable Wing Creators Luis Figo vs Garrincha The Trequarista Fantasistas Roberto Baggio vs Giussepe Meazza The Supporting-Striker Geniuses Dennis Bergkamp vs Kenny Dalglish The English 'Dribble-Assist' Masters Tom Finney vs Stanley Matthews The Irrepressible Strikers Thierry Henry vs George Weah The Box-to-Box Masters Johan Neeskens vs Patrick Vieira The All-Timer Left Back All-Timer Central Defenders Ruud Krol vs Paolo Maldini The Dynamic Attacking Midfield Creators Gheorghe Hagi vs Kaka The Elusive Inventors Raymond Kopa vs Dejan Savicevic The Speedy&Spectacular Goalscorers Jurgen Klinsmann vs Andriy Shevchenko The Two-Way Brazilian Right Back Masters Cafu vs Carlos Alberto The South American Schemers with the Velvet Touch Juan Schiaffino vs Socrates The Elite-Level Central Midfield Dynamos with Elite-Level Central Defender capabilities Duncan Edwards vs Frank Rijkaard The Unique Wing Forwards Dragan Dzajic vs Jairzinho The Midfield/Left Wing Playmaker Goalscorers Pavel Nedved vs Rivelino The Technicians of 'The Hole' Eric Cantona vs Francesco Totti The Left-Footed Superstar Attackers of La Liga with the Big International impact Mario Kempes vs Raul The Stylish & Skillful Deep-Lying Midfielders Fernando Redondo vs Jean Tigana The Prolific Inside Forwards Just Fontaine vs Jimmy Greaves The Technical Pass Masters Didi vs Glenn Hoddle The Athletic Goal Poachers Gabriel Batistuta vs Gary Lineker The 'Deep-lying' Magyar Masters Florian Albert vs Nandor Hidegkuti The Premier League Superstar Wing Creators(/Scorers) Ryan Giggs vs Robert Pires The High-Class Sweepers Matthias Sammer vs Gaetano Scirea The Assist-Masters with the Golden Right Boots David Beckham vs Dragan Stojkovic The 'Dribbler Inventors' Brian Laudrup vs Rob Rensenbrink The Decisive Conjurors Ladislao Kubala vs Rivaldo The Complete Playmakers Paulo Roberto Falcao vs Nils Liedholm The Great Attackers who were Great Defenders John Charles vs Gyorgy Sarosi The Midfield Masters Jozsef Bozsik vs Xavi The 'Number 10's with the cutting edge around the box Sandro Mazzola vs Tostao The Technical Master Scorers Sandor Kocsis vs Denis Law The Decisive Orchestrators Kazimierz Deyna vs Gerson The Game-Changing Inventor Technicians Adolfo Pedernera vs Matthias Sindelar The Stylish Play Initiators Andres Iniesta vs Rui Costa The Dynamic Midfield/Attack National Heroes Jan Ceulemans vs Teofilo Cubillas The Talented Italian Scoring Experts Silvio Piola vs Paolo Rossi I thought it was better to stick to outfield players (in some ways it does make sense to do like in the IFFHS end of century elections and keep things separate even though I suppose clubs do assess the value of goalkeepers in comparison to outfield stars in some respect in terms of amounts they pay for transfers): it's also get tricky to make 'like-for-like' goalkeeper comparisons maybe but I guess if I'd done some based on my idea of the top candidates in general I might have ended up with Lev Yashin (as per boderline 50s/60s period perhaps) vs Peter Schmeichel (as per early-mid 90s probably), Gordon Banks (as per mid 60s maybe) vs Gianlugi Buffon (as per mid 00s I'd think), Peter Shilton (as per borderline 70s/80s period I'd think) vs Rinat Dasaev (as per early-mid 80s I guess) and Dino Zoff (as per borderline 60s/70s period potentially) vs Michel Preud'homme feasibly (as per early-mid 90s I think)...or would that have been Gyula Grosics from the 50s...or should it even be Ricardo Zamora from the 20s/30s?? I suppose I didn't really have any pure central defender comparisons either (but I do tend to think the best all-round defenders...or all-round players who played in defence, being great defenders, to put it that way...were generally excellent ball players also) - I guess I'd not be far from considering something like Elias Figueroa (as per mid 70s) vs Alessandro Nesta (as per mid 00s) for an example of something closer to an outright centre back comparison though.... I didn't think it was worth starting a new topic, but feel free to make calls on my match-ups if you like obviously (probably better to focus on only ones where you feel you have a good enough idea about both players though, and I'll clarify finally that I was making the match-ups theoretically allowing for adaptation if thinking about any 'time machine' scenario of playing in each other's times so it should be more about the intrinsic qualities of the players, although their development is obviously relevant to that, at least in the sense of technique/game awareness etc).
I might've used the word masters a bit too much if anything lol (I thought I was going to vary it up a bit more and have maestros in there for example somewhere originally!), but anyway I've bolded the choice I probably lean to myself now in the above quoted post (and I thought I might as well try it for the suggested goalie/CB match-ups at the bottom too, albeit I might be even more uncertain there than for many of the other match-ups in some respects). Like I say, anyone can else feel free (not that I could prevent it anyway) to make your own calls on the match-ups I went with. I guess saying 'clear choice', 'close call', 'virtual draw' and suchlike would be informative too (I think most of mine would be close call or virtual draw (such as Fontaine vs Greaves and Kempes vs Raul where I came down just about on one side considering the peak factor being the main one even if World Cup play/success may be over-influencing me potentially I guess, or Rivaldo vs Kubala or Scirea vs Sammer), which they should be considering I made the match-ups....or even 'undecided' which in effect Charles vs Sarosi and Sindelar vs Pedernera might be for obvious reasons! - I'm not sure if Cubillas vs Ceulemans is virtual draw or undecided even really lol for another example too, or necessarily which one of those might fare better on peak period and which one on career all in all anyway)
IMO Lionel Messi >Pelé Diego Maradona >Johan cruyff Michel Platini > zinedine Zidane Ferenc puskas >Alfredo Di Stefano Franz Beckenbauer > Lothar Matthaus Cristiano Ronaldo > george best Marco Van Basten > Ronaldo Nazario Eusebio > Karl Heinz rummenige Bobby Charlton > Gianni Rivera Zico > Ruud gullit Ronaldinho > Micheal laudrup Franco Baresi > bobby Moore Gerd Müller > Romario Luis figo > Garrincha If what I read is accurate and not exaggerated Meazza >> Roberto baggio and maybe meazza> anyone who ever lived Do you remember the comments I linked you to on meazza in his pes stats database page? Dribbling the entire team whilst being drunk etc Kenny dalglish > Dennis bergkamp Don’t have an opinion on Matthews vs finney Thierry Henry > george weah Patrick viera > Johan neeskens Paulo maldini > Ruud krol Hagi > Kaka Raymond kopa > dejan savicevic Shevchenko > klinsmann Cafu= Carlos Alberto Don’t know enough on Juan Schiaffino to say if he was better than Socrates Frank Riijkard >Duncan Edwards(he died too young to make this an actual debate) Dragan Dzajic = Jairzinho From what I read Dzajic 68 was probably the best Euro performance ever Jairzinho has a reasonable shout for best World Cup performance ever too Will give my opinion on the others later
Just between us two at the moment then (and just for the ones you've made a call on) that gives early 2-0 leads to Platini, Beckenbauer, Van Basten, Eusebio, Charlton, Zico, Baresi, Muller, Figo, Dalglish (I bolded Bergkamp but didn't actually mean to I realise now lol!), Henry, Maldini, Hagi, Shevchenko and Rijkaard, and a slight lead (due to you calling it a draw) to Cafu and Dzajic (along with Moore vs Baresi, and theoretically Piola vs Rossi maybe that one between Dzajic and Jairzinho is even one of the ones I'd be most tempted to go with draw on myself though I think)....with the others being tied at 1-1 at the moment....
Re: Meazza yeah I remember the thread where we were discussing those PES stats posts (from the old PES stats site I think), and the memories of the old Italian fan (relayed by his son IIRC). It's just hard to tell for those older players. Some old-timer Italians seem to think him and Baggio were comparable though anyway. I've obviously seen first hand more of what Baggio could do (and he did it in a more modern game), but I don't rule out that Meazza could do even more.
I wasn't wishing ill on Beckenbauer/Matthaus there lol! The first word is in German (most of you probably realise) - I'd originally been thinking of using 'der' but that is for singular items/people - maybe 'Der Rolls-Royce' und 'Der Porsche' would have worked ok for those two though! The Schiaffino/Socrates and/or Iniesta/Rui Costa pairings might have been where I had the word maestros in mind originally to be included, but I guess the descriptors work ok anyway as they are.
Rivelino > pavel nedved Francesco totti > Eric cantona Raul/Mario kempes Undecided to be honest I’m pretty certain kempes at his absolute peak was a better a more capable player than Raul but I’m not sure how close kempes was to that absolute peak level Tigana>Redondo perhaps I feel maybe redondo was in theory the best player of all time in his position but again his ultimate potential was not realised due to injuries and not being given the chance at international level during what was his peak Batistuta > Gary linekar Scirea> sammer Robert pires > Ryan giggs David Beckham> dragan stojkovic Stojkovic similar to kempes In that his absolute peak level was a tier above the player he is being compared But he left Europe way to early and even before that he had serious injury issues to contend with Beckham realised his potential and then some And his body of work is vastly superior to the much more talented stojkovic Andres iniesta > Rui Costa Sandor Kocsis > Denis law Rob resenbrink> Brian laudrup
Rivelino, Totti, Pires and Iniesta have gone into 2-0 leads too then. Scirea and potentially Kempes, as more of a stretch too (but at least Scirea does lead 2-0 I think given I did give him my call albeit saying it was pretty much a tie - not different to Baresi vs Moore I suppose in that respect; on Kempes vs Raul neither of us were really sure though!). Also Beckham, but it might be if we used exactly the same approach to deciding it'd be 1-1 (not sure though, and I do agree that in terms of technical talent in general Stojkovic had more), since I wasn't ignoring full career exactly maybe but I'd been thinking more along the lines of 'best' player like I said.
Messi>Pele Maradona=Cruyff Platini>Zidane Di Stefano>Puskas Beckenbauer>Matthaus CR>G Best R9>van Basten Eusebio>Rummenigge Rivera=Charlton Zico>Gullit Ronaldinho>Laudrup Baresi>Moore Romario>G Muller Garrincha>Figo Baggio>Meazza (I don't rate pre WW2 players) Bergkamp>Dalglish Matthews>Finney Henry>Weah Neeskens>Vieira Maldini>Krol Hagi>Kaka Kopa>Savicevic Klinsmann>Shevchenco C Alberto>Cafu Schiaffino>Socrates Rijkaard>Edwards Dzajic>Jairzinho Rivelino>Nedved Totti>Cantona Kempes>Raul Redondo>Tigana Greaves>Fontaine Didi>Hoddle Batistuta>Lineker Hidegkuti>Albert Giggs>Pires Scirea>Sammer Stojkovic>Beckham Rensenbrink>B Laudrup Rivaldo>Kubala Falcao>Liedholm Charles>Sarosi Xavi>Bozsik S Mazzola=Tostao Kocsis>Law Gerson>Deyna Sindelar>Pedernera Iniesta>Costa Cubillas>Ceulemans Rossi>Piola
Hello everyone, We're excited to share on the Big Soccer forum our new project, "Your Soccer Games". We aim to bring together collectors of old soccer matches from all over the world. Right now, three top collectors have shared their lists on our site, with a total of 440,000 matches: - **Futbolvideo** from Brazil with 100,000 matches - **Davja** from Australia with 40,000 matches - **Your Soccer Games** from France with 300,000 matches More collectors are joining us soon, adding to our database that already has over 70 years of soccer history. **Your Soccer Games** is for everyone who loves soccer: - **Pro players**: Look back at your old matches. - **Collectors**: Find rare matches. - **Influencers**: Use our video database for your social media. - **Fans**: Watch historic matches of your favorite club. Check out all the matches on our website: https://your-soccer-games.com/all-matchs
Hello everyone, We're excited to share on the Big Soccer forum our new project, "Your Soccer Games". We aim to bring together collectors of old soccer matches from all over the world. Right now, three top collectors have shared their lists on our site, with a total of 440,000 matches: - **Futbolvideo** from Brazil with 100,000 matches - **Davja** from Australia with 40,000 matches - **Your Soccer Games** from France with 300,000 matches More collectors are joining us soon, adding to our database that already has over 70 years of soccer history. **Your Soccer Games** is for everyone who loves soccer: - **Pro players**: Look back at your old matches. - **Collectors**: Find rare matches. - **Influencers**: Use our video database for your social media. - **Fans**: Watch historic matches of your favorite club. Check out all the matches on our website: https://your-soccer-games.com/all-matchs
Messi>Pele Maradona>Cruyff Platini>Zidane Di Stefano>Puskas Beckenbauer>Matthaus CR>G Best R9>van Basten Eusebio>Rummenigge Rivera=Charlton Zico>Gullit Ronaldinho>Laudrup Baresi>Moore G Muller>Romario Garrincha>Figo Baggio=Meazza Bergkamp>Dalglish Matthews>Finney Henry>Weah Neeskens>Vieira Maldini>Krol Hagi=Kaka Kopa>Savicevic Klinsmann>Shevchenco C Alberto>Cafu Schiaffino>Socrates Rijkaard>Edwards Dzajic=Jairzinho Rivelino>Nedved Totti>Cantona Kempes>Raul Redondo>Tigana Greaves=Fontaine Didi>Hoddle Batistuta>Lineker Hidegkuti>Albert Giggs>Pires Scirea>Sammer Stojkovic>Beckham Rensenbrink>B Laudrup Rivaldo=Kubala Falcao>Liedholm Charles>Sarosi Xavi>Bozsik S Mazzola=Tostao Kocsis>Law Gerson>Deyna Sindelar=Pedernera Iniesta>Costa Cubillas>Ceulemans Rossi>Piola
I agree with most of these, but Baggio is not equal to Meazza. Actually, there isn’t a forward in the history of Italian football who is close to Giuseppe Meazza.