@PDG1978 Don't know if he's been mentioned here, but what do you make of Laurie Cunningham and how does he compare to the great English dribblers throughout history IYO?
I haven't really seen enough of him to make much of a comment about that to be honest (so I'd say I haven't seen anything that makes me feel he'd be right up there, but I'm a bit too young to be in a good position to judge - I know obviously he made a name for himself at West Brom and transferred to Real Madrid).
Okay, and unfortunately not much footage online either. I read an article on him a few days ago and decided to search him on YouTube. There aren't many clips but immediately his dribbling and close control look so graceful and near flawless. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58822497 There's the said article. Wish I could find the El Clasico match that earned him a standing ovation at the Nou Camp in 79-80
This seems to show 1 assist by him in that game maybe? La historia de Laurie Cunningham (FC Barcelona vs Real Madrid CF 10 de febrero de 1980) - YouTube There are a few games on Footballia where he's playing for West Brom or Real Madrid I see now: Laurie Paul Cunningham full matches | Footballia
Thanks for this link. Will watch a few over the weekend. I watched his match highlights against Las Palmas and he looks very good there, Henry-esque in how he dribbles
7 - Le 1er juillet 2006, Zinédine Zidane 🇫🇷 réussissait 7 dribbles face au Brésil 🇧🇷 en 1/4 de finale de la Coupe du Monde, seul Jean Tigana face à l'Autriche 🇦🇹 le 28 juin 1982 (11) a fait mieux avec les Bleus depuis qu'Opta analyse la compétition en 1966. Magique. https://t.co/zYRZe7GNIv— OptaJean (@OptaJean) April 3, 2020
3 – Top 3 dribbles completed by French players at the WC since 1966 : Tigana (38), Henry (31), Ribéry and Giresse (28). Slalom. #OptaBleus— OptaJean (@OptaJean) June 3, 2014
In 2014-15, Eden Hazard completed at least 66 more take-ons (181) than other player in the Premier League and was the only player to create 100 chances.Is that his best season? 🤔 pic.twitter.com/ndYjtVUq4Q— Squawka (@Squawka) May 15, 2019
I think Bobby Charlton and Di Stefano are being sold short here. In terms of effective dribbling, they were amongst the best. But overall, I would say, the best dribblers I've seen (on film or otherwise) in no order: Pele, Best, R9, Maradona, Messi, Ronaldinho, Cruyff, Johnstone, Savicevic, Baggio.
Purely as a dribbler and nothing else? Savicevic all day every day He would kill whoscoreds algorithm for dribbles per game Im a bit doubtful about the end product at the end of those dribbles which is why id lean towards Piksi as a better all round player IMO
I tend to agree with this, Savicevic the better dribbler (one of the very greatest really) and Piksi having a bit more as a player.
To play devils advocate There is the argument he never really did it in a world cup https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/world-cup-comparisons/dejan-savicevic-1990/ https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/world-cup-comparisons/dragan-stojkovic-1990/ If we just had the world cup and nothing else to refer back to it would be Piksi who would overwhelmingly be considered the superior dribbler Its strange this IMO because when Eden hazard (a contemporary specialist) is completely out of form and seemingly in the valleys of his career(2015/16 and the 2020 Euros) he still manages to find a way to retain his dribbling ability and compete with the best specialists in any given season(world cup,Euros or league) Savicevics ability to beat a man may of fluctuated alot more then we actually think
I suppose dribbling requires more physical qualities and conditioning than it gets credit for (often seen as a technical attribute). I haven't read much about Savicevic's training habits and how professional or naturally fit he was but at first glance he doesn't seem to appear to play as many matches as his contemporaries in any given season.
I would say a big part of it just comes down to being plain and simple, extremely gifted. 90% of players can practice all they want, and never be able to dribble like Maradona or Best. It's just a talent. I listed Maradona and Best, because I think they're the prime examples. Dribbling for them came as easy as breathing.
Without a doubt, but soon as their unprofessionalism or lack of fitness came to play surely you could see the number of attempted dribbles go down even in the mid-late twenties. The perfect example for that too is Ronaldinho who at PSG and his first season at Barca was one of the fastest and most agile players in the world, that combined with the technique and close control made him a brilliant dribbler but afterwards as the physical condition deteriorated, his dribbling ability suffered as well. The natural/trained gift and ability is a big part but the speed, agility, stamina to do it plays a part too don't you think?
I am English, but in some ways I think Euro 88 could have been better (given how England played in it) if the qualifying games vs Yugoslavia had gone differently! Savicevic didn't play in either actually, and I'm not quite sure why - he'd made his debut shortly before the first game at Wembley (maybe he would be considered on the young and inexperienced side for such an away game as his 2nd international appearance?), and played some games either side of the home leg for Yugoslavia that England won 4-1 (maybe he was injured for that but I'm not sure). Stojkovic didn't play in the game at Wembley either. Based on how both played vs AC Milan in the EC at the start of 88/89, plus for example Savicevic vs Italy (although wind back a similar amount of weeks before Euro 88 and John Barnes for example was great vs Forest for Liverpool, and yet didn't shine in the Euros finals at all really) towards the end of 87/88, and Stojkovic in the Olympics vs Brazil in September 1988....they might well have both played very well in Euro 88...and on topic it would seem anyway both were pretty much in 'prime condition' for dribbling (I think that has an effect to an extent whether a player was fast like Savicevic, or not so fast like Stojkovic - although he wasn't slow and certainly not in 1988 as the Brazil Olympics video shows once or twice). Savicevic did have some fitness/injury issues, and it seems to me like it's a bad sign when he was wearing 'cycling shorts'/compression shorts lol in that respect (on the other hand I remember Terry Wilson for Forest sometimes came back from an injury wearing them and played pretty much at his best!). Dejan Savicevic ● Skills ● Yugoslavia 1-1 Italy ● Friendly Match 1988 - YouTube 1988 Yugoslavia vs Brazil (Dragan Stojkovic) - YouTube
i think, Savicevic as well as Pancev had several months of army duties then and were not playing for red star and yugoslavia then.
Yes, I don't know about Pancev exactly, but I think Savicevic had exemptions for certain games, to come out of his national service and play for Red Star Belgrade (vs AC Milan) or Yugoslavia, so maybe he'd have been allowed/instructed to play in Euro 88, even if he national service period was underway, but I don't know. Whether he missed a game vs England because of national service I wouldn't be sure, but I'd assumed his final Budnacost season wasn't affected by it.
I think you are correct old friend; dribbling when you have speed, is infinitely easier than dribbling when you lack speed, and there is no better evidence or reference of this reality than Ronaldinho and Maradona, both of whom declined heavily, after their speed and agility began to go. For example, Ryan Giggs while an excellent dribbler himself, was never quite as gifted (versus Maradona or Ronaldinho), but again, the exceptional professionalism of Giggs, allowed him to be an elite dribbler well into his mid 30s... Ronaldinho and Maradona were both past their prime, as dribblers, already at the young of age of 27 years of age. Onesimo Sanchez : Onesimo is old, definitely past his prime, and probably on the fat side on that video, but it probably is the best video that there is available of him. In La Liga 1991-92 he was sensational, his game vs. Real Madrid is very impressive, as Onesimo dominated that game... but then unfortunately, sadly, Valladolid was relegated to second division due the fact that referees had a mission to destroy the 'ghetto' Valladolid of the Colombian Three; Valderrama, Alvarez, and Higuita. In terms of dribbling, Onesimo Sanchez is somehow - as impossible as it may sound - even more 'two footed' than Michael Laudrup... I have never watched Laudrup, in his long time in La Liga, dominate a big game with his dribbling ability, the way Onesimo did vs. Real Madrid in La Liga 1991-92, and to be clear, it was Real Madrid in first place from the basically the first game to the last game, with Barcelona winning the league title in the very final game; Real Madrid suffered an upset defeat at Tenerife, and Barcelona won the league with 55 points, Real Madrid in second with 54 points. I think Onesimo Sanchez is probably the most naturally gifted dribbler I have ever watched, even more naturally gifted than Lionel Messi, Diego Maradona, or Roberto Baggio... It is a tragedy that the most gifted player in Spain's history as one of the premier footballing nations, wasted his career playing for modest clubs and not doing enough training. I mean, being extraordinarily gifted can be a double-edged sword; it can give you a privileged lifestyle, because even at 50% capacity, a player of that ability will earn himself a lot of money playing at a modest club in La Liga; but at the same time, the fact that even at 50% capacity, these gifted players can become successful professionals, a lot of the time ends up destroying their potential at the highest level, since they become enamored by the privileged lifestyle. Think of Ronaldinho after he won the Champions League in 2006... his career as an elite player was over immediately after that. Onésimo, el regateador, y la tarde que levantó al Camp Nou (marca.com) There is a funny anecdote of how Johan Cruyff signed Onesimo for Barcelona, never really gave him a chance, and then got rid of him because he was (and to be fair, these are not Cruyff's exact words, but in essence) 'too fat' to play at the highest level. In a visit to the Camp Nou, while playing for Valladolid, Cruyff told him: "You are skinnier, now you actually look like a football player." It was a reminder of the stigma that followed Onesimo throughout his career, for having a plump and rounded physical appearance on the football pitch. As Onesimo explained to Mundo Deportivo some years later, "That game against Anderlecht was my best and my worst memory of Barcelona, because it created a false expectation of things to come, and that never materialized." Onesimo explained that he felt perplexed by Cruyff, who would play Onesimo in the handful of difficult games, but wouldn't play Onesimo in the vast majority of less difficult games. "Cruyff is a man full of contradictions," said Onesimo. Eusebio Sacristan: "Onesimo is without equal in terms of his dribbling. With the ball at his feet, it is impossible to take the ball from him. If he finds a manager who understands him and who knows how to guide him in the right direction, he will become one of the best." Ronald Koeman: "Onesimo is quick on the ball, his dribbling is short and lethal. He is one of those typical football players, very gifted on the ball, but then fails to play at a high level in a majority of games."
I'm of the opinion that a lot of the players mentioned on this thread are more playmakers than dribblers.