Best dribblers

I think Pelé is underrated in your list.

If we think about dribbling in four aspects/points:

1) Dribbling leads to a shot, assist or goals (solo goals) normally related to dribble in small spaces but not only. The most important.
2) Using dribbling and runs to advance the ball many meters close to the opponent's goal. Ball-carrier style.
3) Variety, different ways of beating efficiently the opponent.
4) Being a consistent threat in this aspect.

Pelé fulfills all these aspects.

1) He was a very powerful dribbler close to the opposing goal with his power, body strength and variety of dribbling, also for his ball control which was very good. Many of his dribbles lead to a shot or assist or goal in important moments (finals, vs top clubs, vs top defenders etc)


0:25 Dribble lead to a shot and a own goal, you can see he making some runs to progress the ball too.

0:55 Dribble lead to assist. 1:35 Solo Goal.



2) Pelé was normally the main ball carrier for his teams, even in the 1970 World Cup he was still exceptional in that...pace, strength, creativity, work rate.

3) Pelé had a incredible variety of dribbling, dribbling using strength, using changing directions, sombreros, nutmegs, dribles-da-vaca, simple dribbling by changing the leg ball, kicking the ball in the opponent's leg, using feints, even some type of Cruyff turn.



4) He had a great consistency.

_____________________________________________________________

R9 ticks the boxes of:

1) dribbling lead to a shot, assist or goal
2) variety (stepovers, megs, elástico etc)
Elite in both.

but not so much:

3) in carry his teams, he did it sometimes, but not frequently for the Brazilian NT he did less for example. I don't need to talk about over 90kgs R9 at Real Madrid I think.
4) He always was a elite dribbler (looked threat even in Corinthians), but declined after his injuries. Couldn't maintain his level.

Of course he was excellent after all.



So for me, Pelé was a better dribbler than R9 at the end of the day. Both elite dribblers of course.

To be continued. Garrincha, Ronaldinho, Neymar.

 

Good names in that list.
I would add

Paulo Futre
Pierre Littbarski
Dragan Stojkovic
Luis Figo
Magico Gonzalez
Vassilis Hatzipanagis
Brian Laudrup

And in more recent times, Neymar Jr and Eden Hazard.

 

A great dribbling performance by two of the very best. In the description it says Messi completed 11 and Ronaldinho completed 9.

 

R9 had a good dribbling performance vs Real Madrid in this match:



Neymar completed 13 dribbles according to OPTA vs Real Madrid

 

I prefer this at 1:01
This along with Manchester United performance in 2003 was most likely his best in Europe(CL level)

 

Neymar vs madrid 18 was statistically impressive but alot of those dribbles led to hardly anything
R9 98/99 didnt complete probably even 10 dribbles during that CL encounter vs Madrid

Yet he created more danger in that one highlighted dribbling run than any of Neymars 13

Same as ronaldinho gaucho vs arsenal 2006
10 dribbles in a CL final looks mightly impressive
Maradona esque even

Yet it was unanimously considered to be a average performance

For reference jay jay okocha playing for Nigeria completed 15 dribbles in 1 match against what was (at least on paper)one of the greatest defensive teams of all time

15 - Since 1966, the most dribbles completed in a World Cup match is 15, by Jay Jay Okocha for Nigeria against Italy in July 1994. Showboat. #OptaWCCountdown pic.twitter.com/x00vgbbAbH

— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) May 30, 2018

Nobody in his time
Or our time
ever talked about it being one of the all time performances

You can easily see why reviewing the footage
Most of his dribbles were not penetrative or used as a means to progress the ball
Some caused danger but most were for showboating

Ronaldinho seldomly posed a serious threat vs arsenal and his shots were also woefully tame

9 - Luis Suárez has equaled Ronaldinho as @FCBarcelona player to have made more shots without scoring in a single #UCL game (nine in the 2006 Final vs Arsenal) – since at least 2003/2004 season. Active pic.twitter.com/k5KwuV6ehA

— OptaJose (@OptaJose) November 6, 2018

Just to be clear
Prime Ronaldinho was indeed a generational talent(excellent 1v1 dribbler and playmaker)

I just say this before you shout ronaldinho completed 10 dribbles vs arsenal =great historic dribbling performance

19 - Ronaldinho 🇧🇷 a tenté 19 dribbles 🌪️ (10 réussis) avec Barcelone contre Arsenal le 17 mai 2006, un record pour un joueur lors d'une finale de Ligue des Champions depuis qu'Opta analyse la compétition (2003/04). Magicien✨.#Dribbleurs https://t.co/XfGMWH5uxl

— OptaJean (@OptaJean) March 26, 2020

'Magicien'
But where is the magic?
Timestamps

Advanced data without context and footage can only give you part of the picture
And in this case a very distorted one

I think neymar at the nou camp against Juventus some years back
2016/17 if i recall correctly was elite,his dribbles penetrative and firmly belongs in the conversation as one of the best CL dribbling performances

 

Edit timestamp

4:40 i meant to say
Successfully takes on 3 players on the flank and lays on a chance for Roberto Baggio

 

Messi's early numbers reflect this. He dribbled a lot (9.77 attempts in 2005-06, followed by 9.79 and 11.77 in 2006-07 and 2007-08, respectively) and did so successfully (7.40, 7.08 and a whopping 8.64), which is not surprising, as he often received the ball wide on the right in one-on-one situations, with opponents keying in on the Ronaldinho threat on the opposite flank
https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog-ma...dinhos-barcelona-understudy-to-goat-candidate

That 8.64 dribbles completed per match is ridiculous/otherworldly
I cannot imagine any player,in any league in any era matching that IMO

 

My take:
1. Pele
2. Messi
3. Maradona
4. R9
5. Ronaldinho
6. Best
7. Garrincha
8. Sivori
9. Cristiano
10.Zico

 

Cristiano Ronaldo v Benfica. 2005.

Champions League. Group stage.

UNREAL TALENT. 🔥🔥

https://t.co/9Fn8kjztYt

— The CR7 Timeline. (@TimelineCR7) April 25, 2020

This was just 7 days after his father passed away, showing a great level of commitment to the game by politely turning down Alex Ferguson's offer to take extra time off.

 

Great numbers! I think if we talk of EFFECTIVENESS of dribbles and volume, only peal Pele (60-64) or peak Fenomeno are close to this numbers....

 

2011/12




73 goals(including 24 goals after 1+ dribble)
29 assists
213 dribbles completed
149 chances created
In 60 appearences

 

From the footage, Ronaldinho played a good game.... I don't see your point.

 

@PDG1978

2:54 - 2:59


Chris Waddle took no prisoners

 

Yes, that is Giggs in 93/94 that he is putting on the floor with his feints.

I noticed a while ago Papin goal videos from particular seasons, so maybe if you didn't see them yet there will be a few Waddle assists you'd not viewed yet potentially. This is the 1991/92 one:
PAPIN All 27 Goals Marseille 1991 1992 - YouTube

I guess Waddle would be somewhere towards the top of a British dribblers list. I think on some occasions it could be he ended up fooling himself or losing control of the ball (at times for example in the Italia 90 World Cup IIRC) but when not doing that he could certainly elude opponents and often had good end product afterwards to create chances. Sometimes he could go on a long mazy dribble himself (also down the left although probably overall he tended to be better from the right cutting inside).

Maybe something like this for a British dribblers list (putting in some old ones I didn't see much of overall of course)
1 - George Best
2 - Stanley Matthews
3 - Tom Finney
4 - Ryan Giggs
5 - John Barnes
6 - Len Shackleton
7 - Jimmy Johnstone
8 - Paul Gascoigne
9 - Bobby Charlton
10 - Chris Waddle
11 - John Robertson
12 - Cliff Jones
13 - Charlie Cooke
14 - Peter Beardsley
15 - Pat Nevin
16 - Peter Osgood
17 - Jimmy Greaves
18 - Peter Thompson
19 - Trevor Francis
20 - Robbie Dennison
21 - Gareth Bale
22 - Colin Bell
23 - Steve McManaman
24 - Paul Merson
25 - Joe Cole

I remember I did try a top 20 worldwide before but on a different thread I think, so I'll add it and extend to 25 names too:
1 - George Best
2 - Diego Maradona
3 - Johan Cruyff
4 - Ronaldo
5 - Lionel Messi
6 - Pele
7 - Garrincha
8 - Faas Wilkes
9 - Michael Laudrup
10 - Brian Laudrup
11 - Ronaldinho
12 - Stanley Matthews
13 - Ricardo Bochini
14 - Tom Finney
15 - Luis Figo
16 - Dejan Savicevic
17 - Roberto Baggio
18 - Omar Sivori
19 - Pierre Littbarski
20 - Zico
21 - Paulo Futre
22 - Rivelino
23 - Rui Costa
24 - Ariel Ortega
25 - Mario Kempes

 

Actually, as an accidental coincidence, I've stumbled over some Marseille Waddle videos on that same channel (I remember now those Papin videos don't show a whole load of Waddle assists and think it's just French league maybe while there were more in the Champions League - the Marseille goals video for 90/91 CL goals is available on Youtube too though of course for example).

But yeah, I see on the channel that these have recently been uploaded (I haven't watched them yet myself either) for Waddle's dribbling and passing with the French club:
Waddle Marseille 1989 1992 Les Dribbles de Chris Magic Waddle - YouTube
Waddle Marseille 1989 1992 Les passes de Magic Waddle - YouTube

 

....meanwhile I did think since I was attempting that British dribblers list from scratch today there could be some cases of names I'd leave off and subsequently think I might have put on there, but I didn't realise it might be a Nottingham Forest player (though I did put two of those on already)!

I do think, though I saw limited footage of him with him being a 1960s player, Ian Storey-Moore could be a good option to be on there apparently. So I could take off Joe Cole, or alternatively take out Merson, potentially, and slot the ex-Forest player Storey-Moore in there indeed.

 

This was the previous post I'd made that I was recalling btw (not really in a relevant thread to be honest, but a bit of a random post!)

Of course it's pretty much impossible to try to be so precise and do it place by place, even to our own satisfaction, but I guess my ideas didn't change too much overall. The combined list is for passing+dribbling combined which is probably obvious anyway! I think the 5 I added for dribbling yesterday can all merit it, although it could just as easily be others probably, and for example I wouldn't feel sure about Rui Costa over some of the others on the combined list in dribbling (but likewise he'd not be clearly behind for passing I don't think - maybe his range and variety was not as broad as for some other players but within a certain scope he could be great with them, and particularly chance creating passes I'd say; his dribbling was really smooth though and often I suppose it was literally a combination of dribbling followed by a pass when he was the most effective). Maybe Rivelino isn't a certain choice either, while I was definitely thinking I could have considered putting in Safet Susic, as well as Raymond Kopa from the combined list or Eden Hazard as another example.

If I did extend the combined list to 25 too I guess it could be I'd add Susic to that, plus Dragan Stojkovic and Gheorghe Hagi, and perhaps Luis Suarez Miramontes and Platini.

It's getting off topic for this thread, but extending the passers list too, I could be thinking about Netzer, Stojkovic, Scifo, De Bruyne and Xabi Alonso perhaps being added in.


Meanwhile I did think another Forest player could even be on the British dribblers list or be a decent call for it (I'd given him a mention on the solo goals thread, although that's not completely the same as best overall dribblers to be fair, even if restricting to dribble goals which he definitely had a few impressive examples of, including for Southend before he even joined Forest IIRC). That is Stan Collymore. I should probably stop the Forest contingent there lol, but outside of that another player that came to mind that I wouldn't be sure to place below Bale as a dribbler necessarily was Eddie Gray.

 

I think its reasonable to do two separate list:
Most effective dribblers and most "aestetically pleasing" dribblers.
Most effective top-5:
1. Messi/Pele
2. Ronaldo 9
3. Maradona
4. Cruyff
5. Ronaldinho/Neymar

Most "aestetical" top-5:
1. Ronaldinho
2. Zidane/Maradona
3. Ronaldo 9
4. Pele
5. Neymar

 

What about Zidane and Neymar? Not in top-25?

 

I think not far away, or 'arguably' inside, from my perspective too. Zidane I did put 9th on the combined dribbling/passing list and possibly more because of the dribbling side of things, at least if taking quite a 'wide' view of what dribbling includes. As a pure dribbler I'm not really sure I have Neymar over Hazard but as an overall player I suppose I would (could say the same about Robben probably vs Hazard).

 

Great! Could you post this "driblling+passing" list?

 

Sorry, it was probably a bit hidden in my earlier reply (in a quoted section).

This was what I had when I did it....
Combined - 1-Cruyff,2-M.Laudrup,3-Maradona,4-Pele,5-Messi,6-Zico,7-Rivera,8-Figo,9-Zidane,10-Kopa,11-Ronaldinho,12-Beckenbauer,13-Liedholm,14-Bochini,15-Deyna,16-Savicevic,17-Baggio,18-Gascoigne,19-Rui Costa,20-Tigana

And today I potentially added
21 - Susic, 22 - Stojkovic, 23 - Hagi, 24 - Suarez Miramontes, 25 - Platini

Though there can be various other valid choices, and quite a few I could easily have had in mind myself I think. Hard to cut it off and call it a definitive 'top 25' but I have to stop somewhere!

I've colour coded it just now so you can easily see which players were also in my attempt at a top 25 dribblers list (blue type) and which in my top 25 passers attempt (bold type). Bold and blue = both of course.

As you can see that does mean in effect I did follow through with the 'change of mind' to put Susic into Rui Costa's place in the dribbling list in the end (23rd, or somewhere around there anyway).