Best 11 Right Now

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by LuckofLichaj, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clearly Weston is a critical piece but this graphic oversells that a bit.
    1. Its a small sample size.
    2. W/D/L record in of itself is not the whole picture. You have to look at where those matches were played (home or away) and the teams played.
     
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  2. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Our best player right now. Not just goals, but his drives out of midfield usually lead to our best chances in a given match.
     
  3. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    He was smart to take that yellow before the Jamaica game. Almost as smart as JJ taking the red before the Argentina game with his last contract in view,

    Smart agents.
     
  4. Orioles Magic

    Orioles Magic Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Nov 30, 2020
    My Best 11 for the World Cup, if everyone's healthy:

    -------Pulisic --- Pepi ---------
    -------------Reyna --------------
    ---McKennie -- Musah -------
    ------------ Adams --------------
    Scally--Richards-Robinson--Dest
    --------------Turner---------------
     
  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    If you switch McK out for a 3rd CB, you can push the fullbacks up into offensive positions.

    The skinny diamond doesnt have width which puts a lot of pressure on fullbacks to both defend wide and push up offensively. Klinsmann liked the diamond but look how Ronaldo used that lack of width with the isolation on Beasley to put in the dagger assist in 2nd game of group and subsequently how Lukaku set up wide right as well to deliver the crushing blow in R16.

    In defense of Klinsi, he didn't have wide players.
     
  6. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    #9656 Ray Shoesmith, Nov 19, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
    I think in the matches Robinson hasn’t played we are a loss and a tie.
    Both without Weston also.
    I think he figures into it too. Without them we lose a lot.

    Both seem to have that ability to tilt the field.
     
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  7. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And you have seen Scally play how many minutes for the Nats? This may be true but I am waiting to see him play at least once before I make the leap from just his Bundesliga play.
     
  8. Ray Shoesmith

    Ray Shoesmith Member+

    Valencia
    United States
    Nov 14, 2021
    I will say as a cautious, pragmatic optimist, that this kid makes me tingle all over.:)
     
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  9. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Poetry. You're the master. Never give it up.

    Replace the heart with 'another CB'. Because the heart is Voldemort.
     
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  10. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wes could score the go ahead goal for the US in every game from now to winning the WC final and he’d still find reasons to drop him from his 11.
     
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  11. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    A diamond 442 is certainly an intriguing option. But next year, we'll have Weah, Morris, Pulisic, and Aaronson as wing options. Konrad and Cowell should have made good progress by then.
     
  12. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    But I have to admire the creativity, in a way. It's a pointless agenda, but as long as you accept that central conceit, the reasons and variations given are nearly limitless.
     
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  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    People here love to talk about how we know we are a soccer power when we have to bench UCL players like France has to do. Then when somebody says "we'll have to bench McK" they go ballistic.

    So, let's correct the old saw and just say we know we are a soccer power when people go ballistic over the benching of their favorite UCL player.

    Now let's get rational instead of emotional for one post:

    If you have 2 outside backs like Dest and Scally you really should use them for offense, especially when one of them is an accurate passer and the midfield does not pass very well. So how do you do that? One way is to go 3421 like Leipzig does to get Angelino into the game and use 2 mids because the outside backs kinda cover a lot of midfield territory.

    If you want to say ok Wes will be the second mid with Adams, I would say that McK isn't exaclty used like that in Juve and at Schalke he shrank at playing dmid. At Juve they want him outside on defense so he is out of the fight but ready to go on offense and they actually work him in as a 9 on offense in the course of play.
     
  14. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    Given that Dest is a special attacking talent who likes to cut inside …

    And Weah’s preference to stay wide and put in crosses (which seems to be our only point of attack) …

    And that Reyna prefers to play centrally, is playing centrally with his club, and can make better penetrating passes than either of our starting AMs or any candidates for false 9 …

    And Weah’s wide winger performances over the last two windows (pressing and creating chances) …

    What is the case for starting Weah at the right wing again?
     
  15. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    O
    Oops. Blew my big finale. Meant to ask why start REYNA at RW. (Can’t edit or delete from my phone)
     
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  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Let's see him beat Mexico on the road. Its not luck. The teams are close, and we've known that for a while. Both the Gold Cup final and Nations League final went to extra time.

    Recruiting is a big part of national team programs these days.
    Not just on the full national team level, but the youth levels too. Its a big, big part of international soccer these days.

    Something we paid literally no attention to until Thomas Rongen became U20 coach. For the first time he asked for a budget set aside by the USSF specifically for the scouting and recruiting of dual-nationals. He created "the list" and went about recruiting. He even approached Mix Diskerud while he was taking a corner at a match!!! People obsess about Neven Subotic (who didn't want to play for us), but don't recognize the huge impact Rongen had on our program. Like.........HUGE!

    Berhalter is seemingly GREAT at recruiting. Not just convincing dual-nats abroad like Dest and Musah to commit, but convincing guys like Pepi to stay. Pepi staying in our program was a huge deal, and may have long term impact on our ability to recruit Mexican-Americans. Its a big deal. Can't be overlooked.

    Getting Sanogo into our program with the U20s in their last camp was another potential huge deal. We'll see how he develops.

    Anyway, all folks need to do is look at the Best XI they've written down, and consider how many are dual-nationals. And not just the obvious ones, there are not so obvious ones. I mean, Pulisic and Reyna were dual-nationals being recruited by other nations. They have always been in our corner, but its true nonetheless. Not so obvious ones? Yedlin has a Latvia passport. Acosta's father is Japanese. A bunch of the African-American guys could have played for Caribbean or African nations. Its a big long list.

    And yes, Berhalter has lost some. But you have to pick your battles. Can't retain everybody. Ayo Akinola to Canada? Sure, we wanted him to stay. But would you rather have de la Fuente and Weah (dual-nationals) or Akinola? You can worry about the loss of David Ochoa, but we have a youngster like Slonina coming thru (Poland dual national). Hell, both of our backup keepers to Steffen were dual nationals. Matt Turner was eligible for Lithuania until this summer. If Berhalter had played Ochoa instead of Turner this past summer, maybe we lose Turner. Sean Johnson, of course, was a Jamaican dual-national. We were also calling up Odunze to Euro-based camps.................who I believe is eligible for four nations (US, England, Canada, and Nigeria). Also called up CJ Dos Santos of Benfica B to a Euro friendly. He's eligible for the US, Portugal, and Cape Verde. Have to pick your dual-national battles.

    I know this was sorta a side comment that people post. Oh, Berhalter is good at recruiting. Maybe having a competent X's and O's guy, but great recruitor is better for the USMNT in 2021/2 than an excellent X's and O's guy who can't be bothered with recruiting and providing opportunities to young players. See.............Tata Martino. Hadn't even talked to Ricardo Pepi. Mind-boggling.
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Haha. I was like, didn't you just make the case for Weah at the RW?

    I think, especially when Dest starts, and especially with the way he's playing, he needs to keep playing at RW.
     
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  18. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what the hell kind of fanfic is this? dual nats are important and greggs dont incredibly well but what do konrad, weah and ayo have to do with one another?

    from what fever dream did you divine that he prioritized weah over akinola? or pepi over araujo for that matter? you say losing ochoa isnt a problem cause weve got slonina, but at the time i doubt a ton of fire supporters who knew who he was.

    weve "lost" guys there was no real indication we should even worry about (araujo) and gotten guys completely out of the blue (musah). its a weird thing, and again greggs done incredibly well- but this reads like a press release from berhalters publicist.
     
  19. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    It's always really difficult to be fair minded with this take. If you simply walk away from particulars of what happened with the USMNT with regards to the 1989-1995 classes (or 1990-1996 or however one wants to couch it) and just look at things in terms of averages, typical trend lines etc, you nail it. This is largely unparalleled, in our own history and I imagine in nearly anyone's history (curious what Zambia's situation was after their plane crash disaster that wiped out their inspiring 90's team, but that's a tragic topic from another era and doesn't fit this narrative), other than those kinds of disasters, I imagine what we have is largely unheard of in any era, so it's crazy.

    On the other hands, it's also so patently obvious, what do you do?

    The best forwards in the program are all 22 or younger other than Zardes and Pefok.

    The best midfielders in the program are all 23 or younger other than Morris, Green and Acosta.

    Indeed, in terms of the top 30 or so players, the only position that has reasonable depth in terms of overage players is on defense and at keeper. On defense you have JAB, Ream, Long, Zimmerman, Shaq Moore, Yedlin and 24 year old Miles Robinson and at keeper it's basically everyone. So there you have depth and a few potential starters that are older, but even still, if most people had their druthers, I imagine Robinson-Zimmerman or Robinson-Richards is the first choice CB pairing.

    So basically in terms of the team, you've got a handful of in prime players (24-28) who could be starters or first off the bench: basically the Keeper, and 1 to 2 CB's, but beyond that, literally every first choice option in the 11 is 23 or younger based on any rational analysis and nearly all the depth other than on defense is the same. It's a combination of unparalleled but also rational. The nature of our development deficits with 89's through 96's and our successes with 97's through '03's has meant that about 85-90% of our top 30-40 players our aged 17 to age 23. Is there any other team in the world like that now or ever w/o some tragedy being involved? I very much doubt it.

    How much credit do I give Berhalter for handling it? I'm honestly not sure, I'm perpetually unsure. I think he's generally been successful, and I think the successes this summer were entirely based upon the toughness and camaraderie he instilled, the defensive solidity (which is his forte) in the team and a little luck. On the other hand '19 was a horror show, and the pestering habit of inexplicable decisions, and favored guys has been a nightmare at times. Otoh, for us critics, there's also the fact that he did eventually eject Baird, eject Trapp, eject Bradley, eject Lovitz, eject Yueill, and there's plenty of evidence that Lletget has been escorted to the back of the bus after the Panama disaster.

    I'm trying to be even handed with him even though he makes me nervous as hell, and I remain perplexed at the difficulties the attack has, how much is a product of Berhalter's struggles as a coach with that end and how much is the legit argument that our kiddos have infinitely fewer reps than our competition has together, particularly Canada, and Mexico.
     
  20. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    No doubt,

    It's kind of crazy how many games have been missed by guys that were viewed as core starters after the Gold Cup. We have been able to roll out our first choice lineup like maybe once this whole campaign. That is the reality of things but the amount of games missed by our best 6 guys (Pulisic, McKennie, Dest, Reyna, Musah, Adams (he's missed at least 1-3 right?) as well as secondary guys who've become more important like the Robinson's is just nuts, and to be on 5 wins 2 ties and 1 loss is pretty impressive all things considered and a testament to the depth we have, especially at winger (in the midfield it's been a problem, whenever we go away from MMA, we suffer hugely).
     
  21. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    #9671 don Lamb, Nov 20, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2021
    The emergence of Scally as a left back is one of the final pieces of this puzzle.

    Other potentially concerning needs are: an in form striker, established depth in the midfield, and confirmation of where Pulisic's and Reyna's best fit are.


    Anyway:


    ----------------------Pepi

    Pulisic------------------------------------Reyna

    --------------McKennie---Musah

    ----------------------Adams

    Scally----Richards---Robinson--Dest

    -------------------Steffen



    Proven Depth
    Turner
    Weah
    Aaronson
    Busio
    Yedlin
    A. Robinson
    Brooks
    Zimmerman


    Could Force Way Into Picture Over the Next Few Months
    Konrad
    Sands
    Pomykal
    Sargent
    Ferreira
    Dike
    Mighten
    de la Torre
    Bello
    Sanogo
    Paredes
    Reynolds
    Gomez
    Cowell
    Clark
    Tessmann
    Gioacchini
    Booth
    Carter-Vickers


    Veterans Hanging on By a Thread
    Acosta
    Roldan
    Morris
    Long
    Arriola
    Lletget
    Cannon
    Vines
    Roldan
    Ream


    Snubs
    Pefok
    Miazga
     
  22. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haven't you and many others basically been defending Scally not getting called in for the previous window, and not starting (or even playing) in the recent set of games?

    Now days later he's Best XI... with zero USMNT caps?
     
  23. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    Yeah, and that's kind of the point. Him not being called into one camp at the very beginning of his professional career with more than a year and lots of games to go before Qatar is not a big deal. Still plenty of time to get him in even as he stayed in Germany for that window. That was the best long term play.

    There was little doubt about his talent and potential at the time. It was simply about timing.

    Also, I should have included Hoppe in the prospect list.
     
  24. dspence2311

    dspence2311 Member+

    Oct 14, 2007
    My 23 would include Hoppe at CF when healthy until he gets a chance at that spot to prove he doesn’t deserve it.

    What?! Are you crazy!? He’s only played winger for us!

    Yes, I know. No, not crazy. I suspect he could be our most dangerous CF. Would love to see he and Pepi battle it out for PT. Or we could go false 9 and put Reyna there to keep our second best winger in the lineup.
     
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Indeed. I mean, that lineup above has four kids who were 18 in the last window. I think all four turn 19 before the next window. Reyna, Musah, Pepi, and Scally. No chance. Sorry for my French, but no chance in hell is that our lineup in January against El Salvador. I think all four rotate thru next window, though.

    Scally seems to be on the same schedule as most other young players.
    For the October window (by which time he'd barely played professionally), Berhalter was in contact with him. He was called up in November to train and be part of the group. Now in this January window he should be ready to contribute. I don't really understand all the debate about this timeline. Its par for the course.

    Its kinda like how 18-year old Musah didn't play at all in the Nations League. Nor did he play a game in the first WCQing window. But he was part of the group and gaining experience with the team this summer. He came in to start that first game of the October window, and was frickin' ready to go. Was great against Jamaica. Just because he was great against Jamaica (and at times since) doesn't mean he was ready to start for the USMNT in the Nations League.

    [It's Pepi who was on an unusual timeline.]

    Of the three games next window, I'm earmarking a sub appearance for Scally in the first game against El Salvador (Dest starts). Then a first start at home against Honduras.
     

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