Belgian Golden Shoe/Soulier d'or 1954-2010

Sorry it came across like that. I have now responded in the appropriate thread.

 

A few months ago journalists of het 'Algemeen Dagblad' (of Rotterdam) made their all-time Belgian team:


The substantiation of Mikos Gouka
Goalkeeper:
Jean-Marie Pfaff

The best goalkeeper of the 1986 World Cup, also under the bar at the World Cup in 1982. But also the goalkeeper during the final of the European Championship 1980. Jean-Marie Pfaff was a great player in Belgian football history and wins in my opinion over Michel Preud'homme and Thibaut Courtois.

Right back:
Eric Gerets

Four major tournaments for the Red Devils and no less than 86 international matches. And that while Eric Gerets also had to stay aside for a while due to a suspension for the bribe scandal of Standard Liège. Gerets is the undisputed right back of the Red Devils.

Central defender:
Phillipe Albert

Philippe Albert played 41 international matches for Belgium in the 1990s and was there during the World Cup in 1990 in Italy and 1994 in America. Albert was one of the big names at Anderlecht and Newcastle United.

Central defender:
Vincent Kompany

They called him Vince The Prince in Belgium. The defender was injured so many times, but he always returned to level. He was there for the 2018 World Cup. According to many, Kompany is one of the best Belgian defenders of all time.

Left back:
Jan Vertonghen

Belgium's record international (118) is a central defender, but the former Ajax player plays mainly on the left with the Red Devils. Vertonghen took bronze during the 2018 World Cup in Russia.

Right half:
Jan Ceulemans

No discussion possible, the modest Jan Ceulemans is one of the very best players Belgium has ever had. "Caje" was placed in the all-stars of the World Cup by FIFA in 1986. The attacking midfielder played 96 international matches.

Central midfielder:
Wilfried van Moer

In the run-up to the 1982 World Cup, Raymond van het Groenewoud sings lovingly about Wilfried van Moer. On the tones of his biggest hit "Je veux l" amour "he sings:" Je veux Van Moer ". At 37 years 3 months and 27 days, Van Moer will be the oldest Belgian to ever compete at a World Cup.

Left half:
Enzo Scifo

The former child prodigy of Belgian football. The Belgians were quick to give the son of Italian parents a Belgian passport. Scifo played a wonderful 1986 World Cup. After Anderlecht, he played for Inter, Bordeaux, Auxerre, Monaco, Torino and Charleroi.

Behind the strikers:
Kevin De Bruyne

The star of Manchester City, the man with the golden final ball and the lungs like a horse. De Bruyne certainly belongs in the best Belgium ever. Here as the deepest midfielder behind two strikers, but De Bruyne can actually strike everywhere.

Striker 1:
Paul van Himst

'Polle Gazon' played as an attacker for many years at the roof of Anderlecht and the Belgian national team. According to many, the best Belgian player that has ever been there. Later also national coach of the Belgians, in 1994 against the Orange at the World Cup in America.

Striker 2:
Eden Hazard

Eden Hazard was voted best player of the Belgium national football team three times in a row. Hazard, the captain of the Belgian national team, was the actual best player of the 2018 World Cup in Russia, according to Robin van Persie. And I can fully follow the all-time top scorer of Orange.

Twelfth man:
René Vandereycken

So pronounced, so strong. When Italy started handling the blunt ax against the Belgians during the 1980 European Championship, Vandereycken got up and kicked back. According to many of his teammates a great player, but also someone of many conflicts.

Trainer:
Guy Thijs


The substantiation of Maarten Wijffels

Goalkeeper:
Michel Preud’homme
What a wealth, on goals with the Belgians you can choose from Pfaff, Preud’homme and Courtois. All three belonged to the world top in different eras. Courtois and Pfaff almost reached a World Cup final with the Red Devils. But still Preud’homme as number 1. A leader, incredible reflexes and not unimportant: immediately a strong Walloon voice in a predominantly Flemish team.

Right back:
Eric Gerets
Quiz question: who was the first Belgian to ever win the European Cup 1 / Champions League? That was Eric Gerets in 1988 employed by PSV, and he was team captain too. With the Devils 86 international matches, two goals and a memorable assist: in November '85 Gerets in de Kuip gave the cross from which Georges Grün scored. The Belgians went to the World Cup at the expense of the Orange.

Central defender:
Vincent Kompany
Figurehead and leader of the team that in 2018 won a beautiful World Cup with a third place. Kompany is the great-grandchild of a Congolese chieftain and son of a father in politics. He already had a lot of injuries. With him and Ludo Coeck there are two "men of glass" in this team. A risk, but their talent is worth it.

Central defender:
Ludo Coeck
A shot from distance like Arie Haan and Ronald Koeman, that also had Ludo Coeck. Watch on YouTube and enjoy: Belgium - GDR, Belgium - El Salvador, powders on behalf of Anderlecht and Inter Milan. Actually a stylish midfielder, but he also played as a libero. Unfortunately died early. With 30 years already in 1985, on the E34 near the town of Rumst, a car accident in bad weather.

Left back:
Jan Vertonghen
Another well-known name in the Netherlands. In the youth picked up by Ajax at the Germinal Beerschot Antwerp branch, broke through in the Eredivisie and became a big man in the Premier League at Spurs. In Belgium a leader of the current golden generation. Vertonghen is also a Belgian record international with 118 caps.

Right half:
Jan Ceulemans
Wonderful youth sentiment: Jan Ceulemans at World Cups in the 1980s, dragging and soldering along the longitudinal axis of the field. "Come on Jan, they can't follow anymore!" Commented Rik De Saedeleer after such a rush against Hungary in "82 at the World Cup. "Strong Jan" plays in this team from the right and provides depth and dynamism there.

Central midfielder:
Wilfried Van Moer
One of the more successful players in Belgian football. The heyday of Standard Liège (1968-1976). "The Little General" won the Golden Boot three times for Belgian footballer of the year. The man with four lungs and two golden feet plays in this team in support of the current top players De Bruyne and Hazard. Alternatives to that role were Franky Van der Elst and Axel Witsel.

Behind the strikers:
Kevin De Bruyne
Possibly the best midfielder in the current Premier League. Before football was shut down by Corona, De Bruyne excelled in one of the last international top matches, Real Madrid - Manchester City in the CL. Most beautiful weapon of De Bruyne: he can still accelerate in acceleration, with ball at the foot.

Left half:
Eden Hazard
How good he was at the World Cup in 2018. Chosen as second best player behind Luka Modric and ahead of Antoine Griezmann. This season Hazard is struggling at Real Madrid, but he showed so much beauty at Chelsea before. Typical: José Mourinho chose Hazard in his all-time best team, at the forefront alongside Cristiano Ronaldo and Didier Drogba.

Striker 1:
Paul van Himst
In 2000, he was named Belgian Player of the Century. And included in FIFA's Hall of Fame. In the 60s and 70s a very modern footballer who already made his debut at Anderlecht at the age of 16. Led that club as a coach to two consecutive UEFA Cup finals. In the attack fell after careful consideration: Erwin Vandenbergh, Rik Coppens, Marc Wilmots and Romelu Lukaku.

Striker 2:
Luc Nilis
This is a choice of rebellion. Because Luc Nilis and the Red Devils, that was never a good marriage, despite the fact that he was the best striker in construction. Nilis felt misunderstood, was even exchanged for the naturalized Croat Josip Weber. But just when Nilis and Belgium were completely "done" with each other, he was liberated by PSV. Highly appreciated here and more of an individual success at continental level.

Twelfth man:
Enzo Scifo
Despite four World Cup participations, the son of an Italian immigrant family split public opinion for 84 international matches. Coaches were also either annoyed or crazy with him. Such a typical number 10 from the 80s, not the fastest, sometimes to let a brother defend to death, but a beautiful technique. "Scifo is the only European player that I seriously consider my successor," Michel Platini once said.

Trainer:
Guy Thijs

----------------------------------------------------

At the beginning of this week, our Dutch colleagues from Algemeen Dagblad assembled a team with what they believe to be the best Belgian players of all time. Then we can of course not be left behind. After our most experienced journalists, Rudy Nuyens and Alain Ronsse, chose their best Dutch players ever yesterday, they are now putting together their strongest Belgian national team of all time.

Rudy Nuyens: "Lukaku's statistics crush everything and everyone"

Goalkeeper: Michel Preud’homme

Defenders: Eric Gerets, Vincent Kompany, Philippe Albert, Jan Vertonghen

Midfielders: Jan Ceulemans, Wilfried Van Moer, Kevin De Bruyne, Eden Hazard

Attackers: Paul Van Himst, Romelu Lukaku

Substitutes: Jean-Marie Pfaff, Thibaut Courtois, Thomas Vermaelen, Walter Meeuws, Ludo Coeck, Frank Vercauteren, René Vandereycken, Axel Witsel, Enzo Scifo, Marc Degryse, Swat Van der Elst, Erwin Vandenbergh.

Coach: Guy Thys

Making a selection of the 23 best Red Devils of all time is not easy, putting down a base team is even less. But then again: after a lot of headaches I made - sometimes difficult - decisions.

Our country has a rich goalkeeper history to begin with, but Jean-Marie Pfaff, Michel Preud’homme and Thibaut Courtois stand out above everything and everyone. Because of his unique performances at the 1994 World Cup, I just give Michel Preud’homme an advantage over Pfaff and Courtois.

The choice of the backs at the back was not difficult. Eric Gerets and Jan Vertonghen are the best occupation in these positions, both offensive and defensive. My central duo was also quick: Kompany-Albert, with Meeuws and Vermaelen as strong exchange options. Don't forget: Walter Meeuws was the first modern defender with the Red Devils. Class coupled with flair. But Kompany and Albert are above me in my opinion.

Assuming a 4-4-2 I could not play in midfield next to Ceulemans, Van Moer, De Bruyne and Eden Hazard. On the bench, the choice between Franky Van der Elst and René Vandereycken was difficult, but because of his strong-minded leadership skills I eventually chose René.

I could have played Paul Van Himst as an offensive midfielder, but in the end I would prefer to see him in support of Romelu Lukaku, without a doubt the best deep striker our country has ever known. Romelu's statistics crush everything and everyone. My heart bleeds in front of the couch because I finally dropped Luc Nilis. Is Luc among the best 23 footballers ever in Belgium? Certainly. But with the Red Devils, apart from the play-offs against Ireland in '97, his input was not as great as that of Erwin Vandenbergh (scoring competitively against Scotland, Netherlands, France, Argentina, Poland, Yugoslavia). The same goes for Rik Coppens.


Alain Ronsse: "I assume that my choice for Witsel may surprise you"

Goalkeeper: Michel Preud’homme

Defenders: Eric Gerets - Vincent Kompany - Philippe Albert - Jeannot Thissen

Midfielders: Kevin De Bruyne - Wilfried Van Moer - Axel Witsel - Eden Hazard

Attackers: Jan Ceulemans - Paul Van Himst

Substitutes: Jean-Marie Pfaff, Thibaut Courtois, Lei Clijsters, Walter Meeuws, Jan Vertonghen, Franky Van der Elst, Ludo Coeck, Romelu Lukaku, Marc Degryse, Enzo Scifo, Erwin Vandenbergh, Raoul Lambert.

Coach: Raymond Goethals

“I have not gone back more than fifty years in time. That is the only reason why Rik Coppens is not part of my selection. With three exceptions, my team consists of Golden Shoes. Kevin De Bruyne and Eden Hazard would have won those too if they hadn't left abroad at a young age. Jean Thissen was never eligible for the supreme trophy, but the former defender of Standard and Anderlecht remains my favorite left back, despite the high level of record international Jan Vertonghen. ”

“I assume that my choice for Axel Witsel may surprise you. Well, when your newspaper gave me the opportunity a year and a half ago - along with Hugo Camps and Aimé Anthuenis - to have an all-time ranking of the Golden Shoe, Axel was in the selection of ten. My position has not changed since then. As a coach, I chose Raymond Goethals with heart and reason. ”

(those 10 names were: Coppens, Van Himst, Jurion, Van Moer, Rensenbrink, Pfaff, Ceulemans, Preud'homme, Kompany, Witsel)


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8,395 HLN corona readers [Flemish newspaper] chose their best Red Devils of all time: Kevin De Bruyne biggest voice gun, no place in the starting eleven for Jan Ceulemans

Line-up: 4-3-3

Goalkeeper: Thibaut Courtois (6803 votes)

Defenders: Eric Gerets (7585), Vincent Kompany (7446), Philippe Albert (6383), Jan Vertonghen (7207)

Midfielders: Wilfried Van Moer (6143), Kevin De Bruyne (8251), Axel Witsel (6067)

Attackers: Paul Van Himst (6173), Romelu Lukaku (7115), Eden Hazard (7782)

Substitutes: Michel Preud’homme (5751), Toby Alderweireld (5037), Georges Grün (3868), Thomas Vermaelen (3734), Frank Vercauteren (5945), Thomas Meunier (5636), Ludo Coeck (4425), Enzo Scifo (6033), Marc Degryse (4966), Jan Ceulemans (7035), Luc Nilis (5021), Dries Mertens (4127)

Coach: Guy Thys (2986), Martinez (2595), Goethals (2350)... Wilmots (150 votes)

Others shown: Pfaff (3822), Van Buyten (3325)

 

I'll post the full text of the June 2009 discussion, as published by Sport/Voetbalmagazine.

For almost five hours, the eight jury members were busy debating the top 100 of the best Belgian footballers ever. Or how Aimé Anthuenis, François Colin, Wim De Coninck, Ariël Jacobs, Jacques Sys, Raf Willems, Jan Wauters and Robert Waseige agreed.

The top 100 isn't posted in this thread, so here it is. The only 1980s born footballer (or later) is Kompany (b. 10 april 1986).

100. Kompany
99. Goetinck
98. Pannaye
97. Munaron
96. Weber
95. De Wilde
94. Van Binst
93. Piters
92. Janssens
91. De Cleyn
90. Van der Auwera
89. Vliers
88. Boffin
87. Luis Oliveira
86. Van Kerckhoven
85. Olieslagers
84. Millecamps
83. Plessers
82. Demol
81. Bastijns
80. N. Claesen
79. Vandersmissen
78. De Wolf
77. Walem
76. Goor
75. Mommens
74. Vandenboer
73. Depireux
72. De Schrijver
71. Thissen
70. Devrindt
69. Van den Bosch
68. Emmers
67. Martens
66. Diricx
65. Wegria
64. Broos
63. R. Verheyen
62. Van Gool
61. Vervoort
60. Versavel
59. Janssens
58. Stockman
57. Simons
56. Thio
55. Meert
54. Baré
53. Semmeling
52. Staelens
51. G. Verheyen
50. Paverick
49. Houf
48. Vandendaele
47. Francois van der Elst
46. Meeuws
45. Goyvaerts
44. Swartenbroeks
43. Polleunis
42. Heylens
41. P. Vandenberg
40. Chaves
39. Dockx
38. Cools
37. Dewalque
36. Clijsters
35. Renquin
34. Grün
33. Van Brandt
32. Carré
31. Wilmots
30. Hanon
29. Anoul
28. Albert
27. Puis
26. Nilis
25. Nicolay
24. R. Claessen
23. Degryse
22. Scifo
21. Coeck
20. Lambert
19. Lemberechts
18. Vercauteren
17. Franky van der Elst
16. Mees
15. E. Vandenbergh
14. Voorhoof
13. Piot
12. Vandereycken
11. Preud'homme
10. Gerets
9. Pfaff
8. Verbiest
7. Jurion
6. Coppens
5. Braine
4. Mermans
3. Van Moer
2. Ceulemans
1. Van Himst

There are some major differences with the lists previously posted in the thread.

Each entry has also a short profile, but I'm hesitant to translate that over, because it overlaps with what has already been posted here (the previous profiles). More interesting is the panel discussion, which I'll do in the coming days.


This is the entry for Van Himst:

1. Paul Van Himst 02/10/1943, attacker, 81 caps

Four Golden Shoes, three times top scorer, long-time record international and in 1970 the National Trophy for Sports Merit: the statistics speak for themselves. Van Himst was the gracious exponent of the eye-catching football with which Anderlecht collected eight national titles in the 1960s and early 1970s. Usually wandering around a deep striker and dribbling with the outside of the foot, he drove the defenders to despair. The gentle Popol also enjoyed a lot of respect abroad, but lacked that little bit of leadership to also achieve the highest international levels with the Red Devils.





With for the number 100:

100. Vincent Kompany 04/10/1986, defender, 28 caps

The most promising of the young upcoming generation so far, the one that is also around for just a bit longer than Fellaini, Dembélé or Defour. A technically gifted central defender, matured at Anderlecht, who with his control over the ball and his phlegm perhaps most reminds us of Laurent Verbiest.

(at this time he had a more flamboyant and 'adornments' reputation for his playing style - see the write-up for the calendar year 2009 - as what he became later)




------------------------------------

I think the actual panel discussion will not disappoint, and yes, also the number one receives scrutiny for good and for bad.

 

With help from the translate tool:

Headaches and sleepless nights were left to the eight jury members after the question who belonged to the top 100 of the best Belgian football players. Did the old boys have to go there too, Jan Wauters wondered, "players whose reputation is only known to us through tradition, but who we have never seen at work ourselves? Or do we go for the ones we have experienced ourselves? Their active career and which you can therefore better assess? In the latter case we risk getting a lot of players from that strong generation of the eighties, because those player successes are etched in our minds."

Ten years ago Jan Wauters already compiled a respectable top 100, then with Walter Pauli from De Morgen. "Then you notice that some players who were still fairly highly regarded at that time, such as Marc Emmers, have now almost been forgotten." [top of the list was Jef Mermans, PvH - Piot the highest ranked goalkeeper on #8]

Except for Hainaut and Limburg, all Belgian football provinces are represented in the jury. This occasionally leads to pointed remarks. "Only people from Liège need to be in, Robert?", François Colin grins at Robert Waseige, who moments later in turn takes revenge on Colin: "Hey, François, are we making the top 100 of the best Antwerp footballers here or so?"

The criterion to belong to the top was: football players who were electable for the Belgian national team. This means that Juan Lozano, who saw his application for naturalization refused, is not eligible, but Josip Weber and Luis Oliveira are. Some have a hard time with that. Robert Waseige: "Sorry, but Josip Weber is not Belgian for me. I can accept Luis Oliveira, who was here from the age of fourteen, fifteen."

In the personal top 50 that the eight submitted - prior to the debate - fourteen names appeared in all lists: Jan Ceulemans, Ludo Coeck, Marc Degryse, Erik Gerets, Jef Jurion, Jean-Marie Pfaff, Michel Preud'homme, Enzo Scifo , Lorenzo Staelens, Paul Van Himst, Wilfried Van Moer, Franky Van der Elst, René Vandereycken and Frank Vercauteren. Soon everyone agreed that Raymond Braine, Rik Coppens, Jef Mermans, Christian Piot and Laurent Verbiest (who some just forgot to nominate) belong to that top group as well. The top five will come from that list, but in the discussion that follows, some of them will slide down from the top list.

The top ten

Who should definitely be in the top five?

Waseige: "Certainly Van Himst."

Wauters: "I put Van Himst ex aequo with Jef Mermans. He had even more meaning and significance for Anderlecht. Jef was not as good technically as Van Himst, the latter who every now and then dared to fail in important matches."

De Coninck: "Rik Coppens must be there, Van Moer too."

Waseige: "Jan Ceulemans."

Anthuenis: "Jef Jurion too. What a personality. Jef was a leader."

Jacobs: "Laurent Verbiest has to be there too."

Waseige: "And Christian Piot."

Anthuenis: "When you talk about Piot, you should also include Pfaff and Preud'homme."

De Coninck: "Jean Nicolay?"

Wauters: "He just falls below that. Piot was a monument in the goal. Raymond Goethals once said:" Pfaff is only half a Piot." But Pfaff has developed further and Piot cracked his body at the age of 30. For a goalkeeper that is young. Preud'homme, who had just a little less talent, has developed through his character, through his exceptional competence in one-on-one situations. Pfaff was the numero uno who conceded fifteen goals at the World Cup. Not all of them his fault but ... "

Sys: "But Pfaff was the one who stayed at Bayern Munich for six years, one of the most difficult clubs in Europe in that era. You should do that anyway, the context for a foreign keeper wasn't easy. I sometimes feel that Pfaff's thirst for publicity works a little against him and his overshadows his performances. "

Colin: "I rate them both equally because they were both voted the best in the world at a World Cup. A few weeks ago I talked to people from FIFA in Zurich. The question was which footballer we have to unpack for the 2018 World Cup bid. Everyone said, without much hesitation: Pfaff of course!"

Anthuenis: "Don't forget how Pfaff started: very poor, ten of us in a caravan. One of his brothers used to be an attraction, who walked around the field during half time while holding the ball high and doing tricks."

Should he be in the top ten together with Piot and Preud'homme?

Anthuenis: "No, those are too many keepers in the top. One keeper in the first ten is enough."

De Coninck: "Pfaff and Preud'homme have to be in that top ten."

Willems: "Not right. Piot was the best."

Waseige: "Piot is a victim of his modesty. He did not sell himself well. Preud'homme was fanatic and he played better out of goal than Christian, was better in one-on-one. But Christian didn't need to come out of his goal with defenders like Jeck and Beurlet ahead of him, playing that way. "

Preud'homme or Pfaff, Robert?

Waseige: "Then it's Pfaff. Becoming and staying king in Munich, then a difficult place, is a fantastic achievement."

Should Erik Gerets be there too?

Anthuenis: "Yes as a trainer, but as a player I think you will find ten better Belgians."

Colin: "I absolutely do not agree. Erik is the only Belgian to have won the European Cup 1, as team captain then, and who has experienced all the successes with the national team in the 80s."

Who else needs to join?

Willems: "I put Raymond Braine at number one in my top. Last year I went to talk to his son, to reconstruct Raymond's life. If you read some statistics from that time, you have to conclude that Sparta Prague, where he played for six years, is now comparable to Manchester United or Real Madrid. It is the club that won the most matches in the Mitropa Cup, the predecessor of the European Cup. Braine is in total number nine of all players in matches played. Transferred to the number of seasons played, he is number one. Before the World Cup'34, Czechoslovakia tried to naturalize Braine. They lost the World Cup final against Italy 2-1. When Czechoslovakia asked themselves who they had missed to win that final, the conclusion was: Braine! In that time you can with justification count Braine among the top three in the world is my belief."

Anthuenis: "Where do we put Enzo Scifo?"

Colin: Between eleven and twenty. Braine is more in the top ten than Scifo. And Voorhoof too.

Wauters: "Scifo was a nice weather football player, always turning. He was good if things run well."

Anthuenis: "I think Scifo has the same problem as Pfaff: publicity that overshadows his class."

Willems: "I plea for Raoul Lambert, because I think that someone from that famous Happel team should join. It is the best club team we have had since professional football in Belgium. If Ulrik le Fèvre, who has played with Günter Netzer, called Lambert the intrinsically best player he ever played football with, that is saying something."

Wauters: "But he was often injured. In big, international matches he was not that often decisive, he didn't score that much, not even with the national team."

Waseige: "Yet I think Lambert may be the first great modern Belgian striker. When Raymond Goethals set up his team, he always started with two certainties: Piot and Lambert."

Wauters: "And Vandereycken doesn't qualify for the top ten? One of the earlier defensive midfielders in Europe?"

Willems: "For me it is twelve."

Colin: "About that is where he belongs."

Who comes first?

Jacobs: "For me Van Himst. I cannot judge Voorhoof, Mermans and Braine."

Anthuenis: "Van Himst."

Colin: "For me the number one is Jan Ceulemans."

Waseige: "Van Himst was the leader of one of the best teams we ever had."

Sys: Four Golden Shoes. But wasn't he enough a world beater?

Wauters: "He has only been hard once: against Urbain Braems. He was also too soft in the team, he was slowed down by Jurion. He has decided too few important matches, internationally. He has certainly been the best Belgian footballer in Belgium itself. At international level is another matter."

Waseige: "I also choose Van Himst. He even acted in a movie (Escape To Victory, ed.)."

Wauters: "In a supporting role, Robert! Van Himst and Mermans are tied for me."

Willems: "Braine or Ceulemans. If it has to be a modern football player: Ceulemans."

DeConinck: "Van Himst. Ceulemans was not really a leader, like Van Himst wasn't either."

Colin: "Jan was a leader. On the field, but also off the field."

Wauters: "But he didn't radiate it. Tough and diligent worker."

---- to be continued

 

A majority for Van Himst. Who will be number two?

De Coninck: "If we chose first place between Ceulemans and Van Himst, we have to put Ceulemans on second place."

Sys: "We should certainly not forget Wilfried Van Moer up there."

Wauters: "Van Moer cannot get far behind Ceulemans, I'd think. He was 12 years his senior."

Sys: "I have the feeling that we should follow Jan, Raf and Robert as far as Mermans and Braine are concerned."

Waseige: "Mermans, the bombardier as he was called, could play like a typical English striker. Back to goal, keeping up with the ball, a deviation, plus his finishing."

Sys: "I read in Jan's book that Real Madrid wanted Mermans, but bought, because Anderlecht did not let him go, at the end of the searching process Di Stefano."

Wauters: "If you asked Steppé and Roosens, two men who made Anderlecht great, who was decisive, then they said: the man who built Anderlecht is Mermans. Anderlecht was nothing before the war. If you want to keep a historical perspective, Mermans and Braine have to be in the top five. "

Willems: "Braine was perhaps the best striker in the world on the Olympics 1928. A few years later you had the prestigious match England against the Rest of the World. Braine was the captain there, because at that time he was plausibly considered the best player in Europe, or one of the best players. I rate him somewhat higher than Mermans. "

Waseige: "Let's keep Ceulemans on second and Van Moer on third. And then Mermans and Braine. Purely for his talent I would put Rik Coppens on sixth."

Wauters: "Coppens was a bit like Scifo: they didn't get what was within their talent. Coppens retired from the national team as a 29-year-old."

Waseige: "After Coppens, Jurion has to follow."

Willems: "Jurion is not in my top ten. I don't know if he was as decisive for Anderlecht as Mermans and Van Himst."

Anthuenis: "Jurion was the 'patron' on the field, in the dressing room and in the boardroom. He was captain of the dominant Anderlecht for ten years. He never made it as a trainer, because he was too fanatic. We thought that at Lokeren we would get a technical trainer, he came from Anderlecht after all, but there has never been more physical training than under him. "

Wauters: "I can still see him coming, as a young intellectual, with his glasses, playing a little frail football. Later that frail was gone."

Sys: "Shouldn't Verbiest come? Wasn't that our best back player?"

Waseige: "Laurent had enormous self-confidence, insight. An excellent positional play. For a large-sized player he was fast, he was precise in the build-up."

Wauters: "I knew Louis Carré, a man who stood there, and also other stoppers, but in the end no one is comparable to Verbiest. Kompany has the same sort of class. Verbiest was the Belgian Beckenbauer at first, but he also had something of Rik Coppens his fantasy. He played with the referee, was also a great player in the audience without falling into playfulness, he remained focused. Break it down to bare bones and he was the best."

Pfaff or Gerets?

De Coninck: "What I saw from Pfaff in the preparation for the European Championship in 1984, that was unbelievable. From the sixteen they were allowed to fire everything, he was unbeatable."

Wauters: "If he had to come out, it was a different story. For me he can be eleven or twelve. But I can live with it if he is higher. But then Gerets has to close the top ten."

Who just below the top ten? Piot or Preud'homme?

Raf Willems: "I continue to think Piot is the best Belgian goalkeeper ever."

Wauters: "Athletically, Piot was the better keeper, but in the end Preud'homme made a great career after his thirtieth birthday while Piot lost his body. With the specialty of coming out: in man-to-man situations, he was the first to do that in a perfectionist way. Ten years ago, I would say Piot ahead of Preud'homme, now I would turn that around. "

Waseige: "Coeck and Scifo also have to appear gradually."

Jacobs: "Coeck had the problem that his career was ended prematurely."

De Coninck: "I shared a room with him at the European Championship in France. He sat with his two feet in ice for eight hours straight. He said to me: I can't do anymore. But he had ability, great goals and a trophy cabinet. Nice player."

Wauters: "Although Guy Thys still believed in Coeck then and said: that will be my last man, as he was played by Ivic at Anderlecht."

De Coninck: "He said to me: I would like to, but I can no longer."

Robert, as a native of Liège, you are the only one who did not put Nico Dewalque at the top, a player who mainly performed in Liège.

Waseige: "For me he was someone who tried to achieve a maximum return with a minimum of effort. He was the smartest. For me he should not be in the top fifteen. Erwin Vandenbergh deserves that. European top scorer, among other things, that is not nothing."

Wauters: "Also not underestimate Vic Mees, a top player then, just like Torke Lemberechts at KV Mechelen, at that time a top club in Belgium. Right winger, spry player, 42 international matches. That was a sensation, but you don't know Torke Lembrechts, Sure? Good dribbler, not a lost dribbler like Scifo, but making openings. "

Waseige: "Don't forget Roger Claessen, the myth of Standard."

Wauters: "And what about Puis? Still a better footballer than Claessen. Degryse and Nilis are also better footballers for me than Roger. He was more rebel than footballer, atmosphere maker."

Willems: "Personality also counts here, doesn't it?"

Sys: "Claessen played in the Bundesliga, with Alemannia Aachen..."

Waseige: "Claessen was the most striking center forward, good header, bipedal, athletic football player, and incredibly popular! How is it possible that Jean Nicolay is not yet in it?"

Wauters: "Nicolay was the first modern goalkeeper who also trained professionally, while Rie Meert was the goalkeeper for me just after the war, in the amateur time, still living on his class."

De Coninck: "Scifo is also not there yet. 84 international matches, hey!"

Waseige: "But boys! Scifo is a real big name right! This is impossible!"

Sys: Who we forgot along the way is Poep Hanon.

Wauters: "Beautiful, graceful football player! In the service of Jurion and the team. But always stylish."

----------------------------

Part 3 - the last part - next

 

From 30 to 100

We are at number 30 with Hanon. What else?

Waseige: "Lei Clijsters has to come gradually now. Terrific in one-on-one situations. Played two world cups, won a European cup, Belgian champion with a small club."

Anthuenis: "I miss Walter Meeuws here. There were few who could lead a defense as well as he. You could put anyone next to or in front: Meeuws led."

Sys: "We also have to start talking about Georges Heylens and Julien Cools."

Anthuenis: "Cools had tremendous running ability. They now speak of box to box, but Cools was already one of these in the 1970s."

Colin: "I think Gert Verheyen belongs close behind Wilmots. He did very well with the national team, kept Club in the top for years. Not Sollied but the farewell of Verheyen was the end of Club."

Sys: "Georges Grün played in the top of the Serie A with Parma for years and won a European Cup."

Wauters: "Between all those runners and trotters we can now gradually place Paul Vandenberg of Union, a real stylist. But who at the table here knows Paul Vandenberg?"

Waseige: "Paul Vandenberg always has to be in that top 50!"

Anthuenis: "Where is René Verheyen?"

Colin: "Armand Swartenbroeks played 53 international matches before the war, hey guys!"

Anthuenis: "And Fernand Goyvaerts: while crocked, he played for Real and Barcelona anyway. He could do more with one foot than most with two feet."

Sys: "We are already at fifty and only one name has passed of the great Happel team, which everyone agreed is the strongest team we ever had."

Jacobs: "The Happel team was a good team, but individually none of that team deserves a place in the top ten."

Waseige: "Have we already had Denis Houf?"

Wauters: "Houf was a better football player than the other men we are working on now, Verheyen, Staelens and so on. He is just about in the top fifty. Before the Van Moer generation, Houf was the best football player of Standard in the late 1960s. Beautiful player, refined, inside left. "

Sys: "Jan and Robert must point out those people and we must rely on their judgment."

Have we forgotten anyone at the Golden Shoes?

Colin: "We haven't had Roland Storme yet, neither did Fernand Boone, neither did Lucien Olieslagers. Maurice Martens still needs to join. And what about Marc Emmers, Gilles De Bilde, Branko Strupar?"

Anthuenis: "Strupar is not Belgian for me. What about René Verheyen?"

Waseige: "Lucien Olieslagers did become Golden Shoe with a small team: Lierse."

Wauters: "But he was never international once."

Shouldn't Roger Van Gool be in it somewhere?

Colin: And Nicolas Hoydonckx?

Waseige: "Isn't that a driver?"

Colin: And Luc Millecamps?

Wauters: "Jean Van der Auwera of Racing Mechelen was better than Luc Millecamps."

Waseige: "Victor Wegria was four times top scorer with Club Luik. Isn't there a difference between a top scorer and a watchdog?"

Colin: "And the men with the most matches in first division? Raymond Mommens, Eddy Snelders, Guy Vandersmissen."

Wauters: "Is Henri Diricx not eligible? For years left back of Union and the national team. I also have a few keepers: Pol Gernaey, for example, from Ostend and Beerschot."

De Coninck: "Was he better than Filip De Wilde?"

Wauters: "Not any better, but they won't be far from each other."

Waseige: "And Jacky Munaron. Look at his trophy cabinet..."

Anthuenis: "Tell me who was the best, Robert, you worked with De Wilde and with Munaron."

Waseige: "Munaron lived with and for the team, De Wilde lived in his small cell. You should not underestimate what Munaron still meant to Club Liège. He came from Anderlecht, but he was not exhausted yet, you know."

Wauters: "There is no one in it yet about the famous Lierse that made that European campaign! Swat Janssens, for example."

Waseige: "Are we now making the top 100 of Antwerp football again? Excuse, my phone rings ... (to his wife) Oui chérie, we are still busy. Really. But don't worry, they are honest and good people with whom I sit here at the table ... Bon, gentlemen, we are round, right?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

This was the mentioned top 100 of september 1999:








Personally I think a top 30 or top 50 fits better. 100 players is too much.

As I mentioned elsewhere, there is a very strong argument the competitive level since the mid-1960s is comparable to Uruguay (per 21st Club and Elo; if you 'correct' for the draw but also without correction - not my choice - one sees there are two World Cup semi finals for each country since the mid-1960s). That is my belief at least, so within that frame there is a place.


edit: it will be interesting to see whether Verbiest keeps his lofty place (also in the eyes of, for example, 'cheesehead' from the north Doevendans with some 'statistical' backing there). Maybe not, but given the dents in reputation the more recent captain had, also far from impossible.

 

"One of the earlier defensive midfielders" and the description above might sound like a hyperbole. But what is meant by that, is how for a long time most midfields - in these regions at least - had basically two-way midfielders for the defensive security.

This changed - give or take - at the end of the 1960s and the 1970s, with the likes of Willy van de Kerkhof (although sometimes still with more dynamism) and Rene Vandereycken indeed. I think that is a fair and defensible statement. Arie Haan could/did play that role too at times (including the golden Ajax; with Neeskens/Muhren staged ahead), though in the year he was the highest ranked midfielder in BdO that wasn't the case.


(plausibly not his best game but the only one I can find)

Also came across this nice Scifo compilation (something for @PDG1978 I guess - as mentioned/discussed before not without ups and downs but had at least one season, 1991-92, where he was one of the best Serie A players plausibly and likewise grades, with his team finishing 3rd in the league and reaching the UEFA Cup final)

 

He was a nice player to watch. Someone I like from that time (4 years and 10 months older) was Franky van der Elst.



See also the upload here (2 minutes). He was a good player and twice footballer of the year.

I think the 'criticism' mentioned is valid. I'd have him below the top group of his country. Similar to this by 'Tardelli magazine'. At the same time, while there is broad agreement about that you don't place Van Himst on #30, it's clear there are major differences in opinion as well. Wm442433 did place him at the highest group, and of course France Football had him listed among the best foreigners to have played in their league (when, for clarity, the league was even #2 in the coefficients for a while).

That the (international) publicity overshadows his class is a valid point; he was a 'nice weather footballer' (meaning: good when things are going well, basically the same as what's said about Diego Ribas here); more could have been done with his talent; his dribbling and skill wasn't always effective ("lost dribbler") even though his eventual end-product is still sufficiently good.

Additionally it has been often said he had his ups and downs (also valid, though adaptation problems and injuries are a softening excuse - without becoming a full compensation), national team coaches weren't always happy (esp. in 1986) and that he didn't establish himself at a major club. With as narrative he failed at Inter - and didn't succeed at a top team.

While the 'failing at Inter' is not entirely wrong, I think that particular last point of criticism isn't quite right. ClubElo has Anderlecht at one point down as #1 in Europe/world when he was there (in 1984, when he was already a starter and scoring freely). Then later on in his career, in 1997, AS Monaco was #2 in the world as well (behind Juventus). I've posted the France Football ratings for 1995-96 and he is there eventually the best rated creative/attacking player of Monaco (although behind Barthez, Thuram, Petit). While they were no AC Milan, it's easy to overlook Anderlecht, Monaco were at those points competitive top level teams.

He also had his continental record: UEFA Cup finalist in 1984 and European Cup semi finals in 1986 with Anderlecht; UEFA Cup finalist with Torino in 1992; CL semi finalist with Monaco in 1994, and UEFA Cup semi finalist with them in 1997 (I'm now leaving out a swathe of quarter finals). He won five league titles in his career (four of them definitely achieved within an 'strong league' at that point in time per e.g. coefficients), and had naturally also some other high finishes (3rd with Torino in 1992, 3rd with Auxerre in 1991). Other cherished numbers tens, of the Gascoigne class but also even more legendary than that, have done worse in continental finishes (yes; luck is involved) and high league finishes, especially in consistency and competitiveness with the team.

In tournaments: cameos and moments in 1984 and 1986; okay in 1998; terrific in 1990 and 1994. The OPTA stats for 1994 had him high up in terms of dribbles won, chance creation and duels success (and they should have had an important penalty in the round of 16).

He had Ballon d'Or votes for four different teams (Anderlecht, Auxerre, Torino, Monaco) - which isn't easy and only a few other players in history have - and was a player of the season candidate a few times as well (for Anderlecht early in his career, for Bordeaux in 1990 when he received such 'award', also 1991-92 for Torino - I think of course this is open for discussion and Serie A was stacked with many good players, but also when looking at productivity and other angles the very high grades for 1991-92 make some sense; for Monaco in 1994 regarded in that terms too).

So I think it's fair to say he had still a (very) good career, while being competitive at continental level 13 years apart (with the #10 shirt), won league titles while contributing within a top ranked league 12 years apart, but overall he comes for me - and many others - just behind the very top.

 

As a last remark;

I don't disagree with the content of what is said here and a placement like #52 (in the 1999 list) or something like joint #28 (by the readers in the 2010s) is fully acceptable, but one of the things that caught my attention was the sentence in bold. Was that suggesting something good, or more like a wink? ('look at the team he played in, *wink*' or something like that)

Probably I'd forgotten about it or escaped my eye, but in his first season (1968-69) he actually finished 2nd in the league with his team, behind Bayern (despite that, with the UEFA Cup not yet supplanting the Fairs Cup, they didn't qualify for continental competitions). Grades were unusually high across the board, with 2.68 for himself, scoring 9 goals in 29 games (28 starts), no penalties. They were promoted to the first tier in 1967, finishing 11th in 1967-68.
edit: foreigners were not yet 'classed' by kicker; this started in the winter of 1970 apparently (Willy Lippens ahead of Varga).

In the second season (1969-70) his team got relegated with him only capable of playing 15 games (I'm not suggesting a strong correlation here).

That made him leave the league and return home, which was a short distance (there are 50 kilometres between Aachen and Liege).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Claessen
(the NED and GER wikipedia pages are more extensive about him)

So it might not have been a big team by name (if that was the suggestion), but at team level there was the 2nd place while starting in 28 games.

 

I'll try one myself.

Do you want one based on national team performances or a more general selection?

I think the full-backs Gerets and Vertonghen are locks from either perspective (honorable mention to Renquin his play and effort; he received once a six match ban by UEFA for performing sarcastically 'the salute' to the referee, in Cologne). Hazard as well from either perspective.

For goal I prefer Preud'homme, and an added advantage is there will be a proper French-speaking representation. Traditionally the 'production' of football teams and footballers are definitely skewed towards the northern regions, even when accounting for population I think (5.4 million citizens in 1970 Flanders; 6.5 million in 2019). See the recent World Cup squads and the distribution of teams in the highest one or two divisions.

 

No it wasn't in the CL (though he was close-ish once and he has his marquee games there too against a few big teams) but until 1997 only the champions entered obviously.

I think at the beginning of Monaco, he was still near his peak. He reached the semi final of the CL in 1993-94 (with three goals, no pens, can't see the exact assists number), although Wenger's team had a mediocre league season. His 1994 World Cup was also really good, with the stats (dribbles, chances, duels won percentage) as indicator.

Later after age and injuries (1994-95 and 1996-97 both injury troubled) not any longer. He started pretty young of course, and didn't age particularly well (b. 19 February 1966).

Fun fact: UEFA credits him officially as the youngest ever assister at a European Championship (in 1984), while Muhren is the oldest ever in 1988.

 

Using your photo as a template I'm tempted to go with this:



I'd have Preud'homme in goal for earlier stated reasons. In national team contribution he certainly compares to the others (Piot, Pfaff, Courtois) and also at club level he accomplished some great things. As I said, he was plausibly the outright best player of his team when he won the league and won a European trophy.

As full-backs I think Gerets and Vertonghen stand out. Some honorable mentions are possible but in the end I'd take these. Vertonghen had however almost all of his individual club honors as central-defender, but I can also think of some great games as left-back still (Dortmund as late as 2019, Japan 2014).
https://sportmagazine.knack.be/spor...-fifa-statistieken/article-normal-262635.html

As central defenders I think there are several viable options. Some would be inclined to go with the most recent names (some circles believed Alderweireld was the best pure Premier League defender for a few years), but Georges Grün compares nice as well certainly, with his ability and accomplishments (five European finals; bringing them to the World Cup to begin with). One particular name is of course Verbiest, and although I'm not sure myself, I haven't seen major 'red flags' either. Indeed, you can see Anderlecht missed a gear, in goals scored and goal-difference, after he was gone.

Personally I'm inclined to say that without all those injuries, which did hurt his timing and consistency when he came back (the mind wanting to do more than the body), Kompany would be a great choice. Unfortunately though, he played only very few games between WC2014 and WC2018 for the national side (only eight games), and he had some major gaffes as well (Argentina 2014). I know when he was a teenager truly knowledgeable people as Van Himst, Hiddink and Cruijff rated him highly.



I think it is really hard to make a selection, on individual merit and contribution. Meeuws, Albert (excellent at WC '94), Verbiest, Kompany, Alderweireld, Grün and a few others thrown in (I did rate Clijsters as well when I saw him; Van Buyten making ESM team of the year in his career) all make broad sense.

One prominent name I'm not fond of was Vermaelen, but others might feel different (he generally doesn't appear in the previously posted lists either). Of course, Kompany himself has been relatively humble about how good he was. He had a great swansong obviously in 2018-19, but I have the feeling that without the injuries he would have gone down as *the captain* and foremost defender.

 

Your idea of using Albert as left-back is not too bad either, as this also works around his (occasional) positional and defensive weaknesses, although it can be argued that this was down to Keegan his team (as the 'The Mixer' book explained/argued) and was less visible for other teams he played in. He can still use his strengths of course when playing as full-back, and his crossing wasn't bad. I wouldn't use e.g. Georges Grün in such capacity.



For midfield I can see the idea of retaining Van Moer as defensive midfielder, as this provides space for Van Himst or another creative player. From a longevity and peak perspective, as well as coming back from four leg breaks, I'd have him in. On youtube there are a few good compilations of him running the show against Italy, England, West Germany and Spain. Maybe it's possible to argue he should have had more success at continental level, but for the national team he was terrific for the 1980 and 1972 campaigns (until Bertini made a move that broke his leg in the quarter finals), as well the 1970 campaign with the games against Spain for qualification. For me he's a definite or at least pretty close to it. Similar to Preud'homme; take those four leg breaks out and he had a high baseline for a prolonged period of time.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfried_Van_Moer

If we however play Van Moer in his slightly more natural number eight position, then from what I've seen the defensive midfield position is between Vandereycken, Van der Elst and 'national team more than club' performer Witsel. I can't properly judge the players before 'VDE' (as he gets called), or rather the players before 1960. My preference goes to Van der Elst, but Vandereycken or Witsel (if it's just about national team) are also fine for me.

Opposite to Van Moer, I guess at the end of the career it will be De Bruyne but if we ignore that for now, I'd still have Van Himst. Yes, it's right he isn't as superior at international level as he was domestically (the perceived main 'rival' for the domestic scene is Rensenbrink - see the posted surveys and polls), against the top opponents, but he had still his moments and value. He had still his important quarter final goal against low conceding and hard tackling Italy, as example. He was still topscorer in the European Cup (1967) and Fairs Cup (1970). But indeed, if you compare it to his 'league superiority' or other countrymen (or also a 'mirror image player' as Bergkamp) it can be better, as those 'panel comments' said. So more than you expressed in your comments above, I'd see this with more certainty (not 100% certainty).

So for now: Van Moer - Van der Elst - Van Himst

I agree with you Vercauteren was also really good, but it's hard to see him going into midfield or one of the forward spots. Do think he was excellent indeed, and blended well a few qualities (crossing winger, but also playing in midfield - not his best game).

P.S. Mermans and Braine will be covered among the forwards category.

 

For the forwards my perception is broadly the same as yours.

As the right winger I'd have Ceulemans, who - as you know - I have always liked. That's not to say he didn't have his down moments (in particular the seasons between 1980 and 1982 tournaments, there is a documentary on this), but he was absolutely one of the best players in the league at a time it was a strong and good league (and the clubs took the continental competitions serious - hasn't been always the case), with some quality foreigners passing by as well. One aspect prone to be overlooked, is that he had sometimes his passes too. Think of the fine through-ball against Denmark in 1984; the long pass against USSR in 1986; or the pass in the 'vs Anderlecht' compilation on youtube (for the title decider). It's often glanced over.



Obviously he was great and productive at euro 1980 (France Football had him even on top of all players) and in 1986, but in the other tournaments there were moments too. In 1982 the rush against Hungary that qualified them for the 2nd round of the tournament. In 1984 a well taken goal on the turn against Denmark (a game they lost, but not because of him).

In 1990 - while I tend to agree with you he wasn't at his best, had some niggling issues and was leaving his prime (despite his goalscoring record remaining on par) - a fine goal against Uruguay and also a fine game against England.

"In Italy, he was eliminated from the World Cup tournament in the round of 16 after a 1-0 defeat after extra time against England with his teammates. Ceulemans and Scifo had dominated the game for most of the time, David Platt scored the goal in the 119th minute."
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Ceulemans

Quelle surprise; 'World Soccer' included him in the World XI for 1990. You ain't a good player until you do it against England, as Pirlo and Ibrahimovic can tell you. Personally I have a strong preference for him, and as you know, saw yourself, he was of a good class as central midfielder as well. He was forced to retire from football after a heavy knee injury.


https://beyondthelastman.com/2014/03/10/eric-battys-world-xis-the-eighties-and-nineties/

1030 – Eden Hazard has won 1030 fouls in the top 5 leagues in the past decade, at least 233 more than any other player. Garden 👨‍🌾. @hazardeden10 @ChelseaFC #Opta2010s pic.twitter.com/zVeonVQvIS

— OptaJean (@OptaJean) December 27, 2019

As left winger I'd already have Hazard in the team. Since he is a very familiar and recent player, I think there isn't much to explain. He was in the orbit for best player of the French League in two seasons, and in about three, four Premier League seasons as well. One known negative remains the Champions League, it's also sometimes said that he plays to let himself go and have joy, and isn't always busy with winning or becoming a "high return robot" (not just said by foreigners). He did win the Europa League in style, in 2019 as a farewell, after a number of lukewarm outings there too (2012-13, when Chelsea won; not mediocre but not great either; the 2009 to 2011 seasons although admittedly he was a major factor behind Lille climbing up in the first place, and eventually winning the whole league).

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/dembele-a-genius-football-maradona-and-ronaldinho-claims-pochettino
https://talksport.com/football/4761...vin-de-bruyne-tottenham-mousa-dembele-quotes/

Picking these two leaves out some other good players, like the player of the two links above (hot take: one might argue Luc Nilis did actually better than both at continental and CL level, against real class opponents), but I'm inclined to take these two, especially Ceulemans. Sadly, it might be Hazard his body is now broken down.... Time for a sad goodbye song...



Preud'homme
Gerets - ??? - ??? - Vertonghen
Van Moer - Van der Elst - Van Himst
Ceulemans - TBA - Hazard

The last post will be for the center forward.

 

For center forward I think Braine is the safe option. Ahead of others like Lukaku his goalscoring record (in a favorable era), Vandenbergh his European Golden Boot and - as 'Algemeen Dagblad' recalled above - goals against top tier and 2nd tier national teams (not be confused with another Vandenberg!). Vandenbergh scored 7 goals in 12 when he won the UEFA Cup in 1983 (with two penalties but IIRC partially won by himself). Reasons for Braine his plausible standing, and the alternatives, are given by the panel and the sections above. Additional benefit is it will give a better regional distribution.

One thing to highlight here is Mermans was noticed abroad. "He was considered one of the best center forwards in Europe in his time, alongside the Swede Gunnar Nordahl." Absurd statement? Not quite. The Italian wikipedia for example links to a Corriere dello Sport article of 1949 where he is discussed in such terms. "Mermans il più forte centravanti d'Europa"

Thus if the impression is Mermans was a local hero and also-ran, while Braine wasn't, then that isn't entirely right.

Preud'homme
Gerets - ??? - ??? - Vertonghen
Van Moer - Van der Elst - Van Himst
Ceulemans - Braine - Hazard

On some places I might feel different in a few years time, while for example in the case of Ceulemans it is unlikely my high regard for his range of capabilities, decisiveness, 'aura' and (peak) level will change a lot.

I hope this is fine for you PDG1978. If there are questions, then that's fine.

@PDG1978 @msioux75 @comme

 

Thank you PDG.

To answer your wondering/uncertainty above;

I think him playing and anchoring in 1990 was one of the reasons why an even higher ceiling was reached as four years earlier (summary by the Belgian public broadcaster below).

Italy brought the Red Devils the greatest success ever with the second place at the European Championship 40 years ago. Ten years later, also in Italy, in 1990 Belgium played a very strong World Cup but David Platt caused a national football trauma.

The preparations for the 1990 World Cup are not going smoothly. Walter Meeuws had taken over the torch from Guy Thys in 1989 as national coach, but just before the tournament, Meeuws was fired. Bad results and a fight with Enzo Scifo had caused this. Thys returns and was appointed by the Belgian Football Association as national coach for the 1990 World Cup in Italy.

Thys had to extinguish some fires. Scifo, in conflict with Meeuws, was not to everyone's satisfaction restored, and for the central defense, a choice of Clijsters, Albert, Grün or Demol kept the national coach awake at night.

But Thys also put Jan Ceulemans on the bench in the preparation games. Not a simple decision, because the Caje was a symbol and captain of the golden generation of the 1980s. Thys even spoke unmistakable words in his selection choice. “The group consists of 22 players and not of 11. It is the same for everyone. The bankers are asked not to make a scene. Anyone who does not agree can pack their bags. ”

The country was no longer surprised when Jan Ceulemans started the World Cup with a place on the bench. Ceulemans felt frustrated and spoke the legendary words: “Something is broken between Guy Thys and me”.

But there was not played for long without the Caje. Already in the break of the first match against South Korea (2-0 win), 'the old man' was taken off the stable. In the next match against Uruguay, an indefatigable Ceulemans scored the 3-0 (final score 3-1). Belgium was already qualified for the second round after two matches.

If anyone in the Villa Quaranta in Verona felt at home, it was Enzo Scifo. His name was even sung at the Mondiale in Italy. The Sicilian was a "piped" Inter player but after the match against Uruguay, the Italian sports newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport headlined "Hai visto Scifo, Inter?" (Have you seen Scifo Inter?). Scifo played superbly and scored the 2-0 with a wonderful long shot.

When the ball hits the ropes, Rik De Saedeleer is caught on one of his few professional lies ever. “And his Dutch is always getting better ..”, the commentator shouts with joy. You can write prosaic stories and pronounce poetic words about the technical ability of maestro Scifo, but Dutch has never been mastered by one of the most technical players ever in the Belgian shirt.

"I suffered that I had failed at Inter," said Scifo later. “The Mondiale gave me a great sense of recognition and a chance to show the world that I could handle top football. I found myself as a footballer again. That was the main thing. Too in our best match against England the fortune didn't come our way. ”

Ask the average Belgian football supporter (over 25 years old) which Frenchman with his goal kept the Red Devils out of the 2018 World Cup final and many fans will not answer. But no one will ever forget the name David Platt. And yet this was only about the round of 16.

Paul Gascoigne's free kick in the 119th minute went with a bow ball into the penalty area. “I gave the worst pass anyone has ever given in football at such a time but Platt did something great with it,” the flamboyant English midfielder testified.

The fact that Ceulemans and Scifo hit the post earlier and that the Red Devils had brought better and more attacking football than in Mexico 86 unfortunately did not matter. “It's one of the very few times I've seen my players cry after a lost game,” said Marc Degryse afterwards. Understandable. "That's football they say, just a game. But I assure you: that was a drama. ”

The fatal Platt seconds will always remain one of the most painful national football memories. “The football gods have been blind tonight”, concluded word artist and radio voice Jan Wauters.

------------------

Like I mentioned previously, while there are ('average' speaking) differences between the countries, foreign observers has rightly noticed the shirt numbering and (individual) defensive style shows overlaps. Both Netherlands and Belgium give the #5 shirt to the left-back, which is unusual.

"It’s also worth outlining the unusual situation in Holland and Belgium, where defenders are numbered completely differently to every other major footballing nation: traditionally, they are simply numbered 2-3-4-5 across the defence. The most unusual aspect of this is clearly the No 5 playing left-back, although it’s also strange to witness a No 3 as a right-sided centre-back. The likes of Jaap Stam, Toby Alderweireld and now Joel Veltman have worn that number for Ajax over the years — all of them capable of playing right-back rather than left-back."

Kompany himself said this, before the 2018 game against Brazil in the press conference:

"I think the norther you go they have a bigger mouth and like to invent the wheel again by themselves [...]. If I look at myself then I played the entire youth at Anderlecht and we merely followed what Cruijff had set out, almost literally."

Also alluded to in this recent SI article.

"Kompany developed at the Belgian club Anderlecht, where the youth system was modeled on Ajax’s famed academy. Here the emphasis was on producing ball-playing defenders, and Kompany’s obsession with passing and technical skills paid off."

Or against a British source, to SkySports Kompany said: "I don't think anyone has influenced the game as much as he has done - my own game too." His comments on differences in general 'culture' are not totally baseless, looking at some examples of research carried out.



One difference was perhaps the training of goalkeepers, and a - again 'averagely' speaking - other set of priorities. Goalkeepers had to be muscular rather than lean (which has become the dominant approach now), less emphasis on ball-playing and positional games. It's not worse, it delivered adequate and good goalkeepers ('reserve' keepers as Verlinden, Munaron etc.), but it was different.

Preud'homme was actually adequate with his feet and therefore coped with the backpass rule very well (1994 was the first tournament with the rule), but most other keepers weren't. He was still not quite a VdS, Menzo or Jongbloed with his feet. In the sense of launching a 80 yard ball into the running feet and stride of Wayne Rooney.

But in terms of defenders (think of Albert as example; Georges Grun too), the defensive style, the high line, the offside trap (Happel's Brugge; didn't do this so much at Feyenoord) I'd say there has been an overlap; same for the parallel emergence of a dedicated defensive midfielder in the 1970s.

 

I've rewatched the long highlights for the Spain 1990 game today, at the World Cup, and noticed some nice flicks and a fine through-ball by Ceulemans really, retaining and shielding the ball under pressure. By the look of these 25 minutes he played rather well, and was effective. But like I said, I echo your idea he had niggling issues and was at the age of 33 leaving his prime. Against Korea he set up a goal nicely too, with a flick, one-two and then progressing forward. He's someone I always liked (as you know). The Italian wikipedia describes his game fairly well.

I'll log out for today, but just saying this to you