Fifth at the moment. Australia and South Africa clear at the top, followed by Sri Lanka and New Zealand. Although there really isn't that much to choose between three to eight (India, Pakistan and West Indies also in there).
Fair enough. Have you got a link for that because the only rankings I could find were a couple of months old I think. I'm really surprised Sri Lanka are ahead of us and NZ for that matter. We've had some decent results so I'm not sure why we've slipped. Probably something to do with the Aussies, usually is.
We haven't though, as it is now based upon past results against those opponents There shoul be a table at www.bbc.co.uk/cricket
Ahh could be the reason. Still it's not as depressing supporting England nowadays as it was a few years ago. I vaguely remember England being mauled in the Ashes (I mean REALLY mauled, not just what happens now) sometime in late 80' early 90's. But let's not take this thread off topic. PS: Love the comment about how tests on Flintoff's groin proved 'inconclusive.' About what one may ask?
Dertails of the Aussie Rules International Cup can be seen on http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=intsection&spg=internationalcup Details of the US team are at http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=intsection&spg=intcupusa USA lost their second game to New Zealand, but Canada beat South Africa. Australia does not enter a team, for the same reason the US would not enter into an American Football Cup. One of the rules for the teams is that no expat Aussies are allowed - all players must be home-grown. The teams involved are USA, Canada, UK, Denmark, New Zealand, Samoa, Nauru (the only country in the world where Aussie Rules is the national sport!?), South Africa, New Guinea, Ireland and Japan.
Also, on Japan & Rugby. I know that Rugby used to be huge in Japan - not as big as baseball or sumo, but certainly ahead of soccer. I don't know if it still is, but Aussies, NZ'ers and Pacific islanders still go over there to play professionally. When Rugby was officially an amateur sport Japan was a place you could go to get around it by getting a 'job' and playing for one of the company teams.
Craig, there are still Aussies and Kiwis playing in the corporate league. I believe currently, a corporate team is allowed to have two or three "professional" (as in, not employed by the parent company in any other capacity) players, though I may be wrong on the exact number. I addressed Japanese rugby earlier in the therad here.
Well, I have actually seen people play baseball in Italy. I have never actually seen anyone play cricket in the United States. Maybe a better question would be: What sport is more popular in Europe, cricket or baseball?
I think I remember him. My father worked for Kobe Steel in the 80s and early 90s so we got to meet some of the ruggers.
Great Britain has a national baseball team, as do most European countries. So what does that prove? In all those countries, baseball is the dominant, No. 1 sport. In how many countries is rugby the dominant sport? One? What about Japan, Mexico, Venezuela, South Korea, Cuba, and Canada? Are those countries not "massive" enough? I guess not, compared to "massive" countries like New Zealand, Wales, Scotland and Fiji.
Well, we could split the US up into 50 different national teams, but what would that prove? Is Ireland a "big" rugby nation? A little bird whispered in my ear that it was the no. 4 sport there. Agreed. Ding. Add one more country to the rugby pile. Though, of course, New Zealand is about the size of Panama, population-wise. We're grasping now. Just because they play rugby doesn't mean it is "big" in either of those countries. Aruba, Curacao, ...come on. Like what? Baseball is a mainstream sport in all of the countries that have been named here, bar Australia. The US, Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Dominican Rep., Venezuela, Nicaragua, Panama, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. In all of those countries baseball is a mainstream sport played at a professional level.
Fulham9, Rugby is indeed big in Italy and Argentina. Italy recently joined the Five (well, Six now) Nations Tournament (which pits the home nations, Ireland and France against each other) and it enjoyed a huge growth when Campese played there for a couple of years. Argentina is a traditional power in rugby. It has suffered from being the only Latin American power in the sport but the Pumas are still considered major players.
I'm aware of that. Replace UK with England if you like. Those aren't big countries. You had sarcastically dismissed the size of some countries in which baseball is popular, I was noting the size of rugby nations relative to baseball nations. Maybe you misunderstood... What's the typical attendance at an Italian or Argentine club match? Just because they're good at the sport (albeit with zero chance of a winning a world cup) doesn't mean it's popular...the US has long been among the top countries in men's volleyball (which has more widespread popularity than baseball or rugby) and it doesn't rate at all as a spectator sport here. See response to 3... Specific examples please.
What's "pretty big"? It has its niche. But its relative popularity in Japan is not close to the relative popularity of baseball in the places that have been mentioned as baseball countries IMO. Sure. Now show me that rugby is as popular in Argentina as baseball is in any of the countries that have been mentioned. If you can't do that, at least show me that it's as popular as soccer is in the US. Irrelevant.
Yeah, that's more what I was looking for, although my original was question was probably too harsh and made it unclear. Thanks for the thoughtful response though.
OK read this.... http://www.planeta.com/ecotravel/sports/rugbymex.html that tell of a small league in mexico. But it also states that in argentina rugby is placed second (behind football...not surprisingly..) in popularity. New zealand are arguably the best team around and it is the top sport in the country... A full crowd of 25000 italians watch the 6 nations.... 72500 watch the welsh 70000 watch the english 80000 wath the french, 50000 watch the irish and 70000 watch the scots. How can you say UK rugby is basically england. (although we are the best) scotland and wales both have huge crowds.... http://www.6-nations-rugby.com/sixnations_millennium.htm to see al stadiums.... "Well, we could split the US up into 50 different national teams, but what would that prove? " this is the funniest comment i have heard. Since when has each state been a seperate country. While england scottland and wales all have....and are (sort of) you ridiculed the fact i put argentina (see above) italy (see above) and the pacific islands, yet they have some of the worlds best players, and some amazing rugby 7 teams....it is the most popular sport there as well.... The fact still remains, Rugby is a popular world sport, while baseball doesnt even have a international game....
I don't have exact numbers but the university and corporate tournaments fill up World Cup-class stadiums (40K) while high school tournament final probably draws 20-30K. Rugby at all three levels are treated as top stories in the sports section. My guess is that most people in Japan could name the finalists in the university and high school tournaments and the last 8 in the corporate tournaments. The finals in each level and the "ultimate" final pitting the corprate champion and the university champion are TV events. That is certainly more than can be said for soccer in this country, and baseball in most countries. Side note: rugby, at least at the international level is certainly bigger than baseball in Italy I'm not sure what you want as "proof". But I can tell you that Argentina is the 7th ranked Rugby nation according to this ranking and that they have been playing internationally since 1949. The Pumas are certainly regarded as one of the top sides in the sport, both currently and historically. Why is Hong Kong Sevens irrelevant? It's probably one of the biggest team sports tournament held annually in terms of the crowd it draws, the media coverage and the countries participating it. The closest baseball comes to it is the Little League World Series.
That doesn't really mean a whole lot, considering that international baseball is not bigtime in any country except Cuba. In baseball, it is the domestic professional league which is the big deal in all countries in which baseball is played. Is club rugby in Italy televised? How many professional teams are there? What is the average attendance? How does it compare to basketball?Those are the questions I want answered about Italian rugby. The fact that a nation has a decent team doesn't mean that rugby is a major sport in that country. The US and Canada are both ranked in the top 15 (last I saw) in rugby, but it is a very minor sport in both. The fact that Argentina is ranked so high could very well be a reflection of the dramatic dropoff in interest between the top rugby-playing countries and the rest. I know that domestic rugby in Argentina isn't professional, and it doesn't draw big crowds. So I need a little more to convince me that rugby is a major sport in Argentina than the rankings. After all, the US is now no. 9 in soccer. We all know that soccer isn't yet a major sport in the US.
Baseball is bigtime or right under soccer in: Mexico Domenican Republic Puerto Rico Venezuela Panama Japan Korea Cuba USA Id say baseball is winning just because of the sizes in population of the countries that love the game. USA's and Japan's amount of fans alone can beat the number of Rugby fans across the globe.
You just illustrated one of my basic problems with rugby as a major sport: its all icing and no cake. In the UK at least, you get huge crowds 5 or 6 times a year for internationals. Meanwhile, the premier league in England averages what, 7,000 per match? The international game dwarfs the domestic game. Where's the meat? Well, Texas was a separate country as recently as 1845. Scotland was last a separate country in 1707. Outside the UK, a "country" implies some measure of political independence. Scotland and Wales are only "countries" in a historical sense. On the same basis, you could claim that Bavaria is a separate country from Germany, Sardinia is a separate country from Italy, Brittany is a separate country from France, Catalunya is a separate country from Spain, etc. No one considers those to be separate countries. No one considers Texas to be a separate country. You ridiculed Nicaragua, Panama, the Dominican Rep., Aruba and Curacao as baseball countries. Yet they have all produced some of the world's best baseball players.... and it is the by far the most popular sport in all those places. As far as Italy and Argentina are concerned: no one has convinced me that rugby is anything more than a niche sport in those countries. I know that basketball is a lot more popular than rugby in Italy. And I know that rugby isn't even professional in Argentina. Baseball has an international game, it just isn't a big deal. How can you consider rugby a popular world sport, but not baseball?
Not really wanting to get into this debate but I thought I might interject for a moment. Rugby rankings are a little like football ones (FIFA), in that there is a big gulf between the top 10 sides and the rest (top 20 for football). It may seem that by being ranked 15th, US/Canada are doing well, and aren't that much worse than (eg) Argentina. It's not true. So it's no real wonder why not many people know that their country is even represented at that level There's only really 20 or so nations that play the sport. So basically 7th is a great position. Not an answer to the larger overall topic, merely a petty little dig.
Hmmm "international game dwarfs the domestic game" reminds me a tad of MLS and the national team. Yet football is still a major sport. Besides when you get a game as all pervading as football is here, its tricky for the domestic rugby to get a look in. And what if we're talking rugby league? The super-league gets relatively decent figures. Do some research before making assertions of this magnitude. The home countries all have some measure of political independence.