Woah! Hang on a minute! We didn't have anything like as many (if any) 'world class' players in the 90's and we were NOT outplayed like we were yesterday back then either! Losing to Bristol City in the 80's and 90's is FAR more acceptable than it is now!
I'm NOT, I'm still waiting for an example of when we were so comprehensively 'outplayed' by such an (with all due respect to Barnsley) inferior team?
So this match (which we won), in your mind, is somehow worse than when we lost 4-2 to a League 1 side?
Okay, so if the 90s are not acceptable for a comparison (which I provided) then why on earth mention 40 years of play? I'm trying to work within your criteria but as it changes with every post, it's impossible. I'd say the fa cup loss to third tier Bradford at home after leading 2-0 was a worse performance but I'm sure you'll further qualify why that doesnt count to reinforce a point that literally no-one else has made.
Worse result perhaps but worse performance? There is a big difference, we were certainly not outplayed like we were yesterday. You've also gotta bear in mind the riches at our disposal don't you think its fair to expect more from Ziyech and Pulisic than we should expect from Mike Fillery and John Bumstead?
Let's try this a different way. Which performance, in our entire history, was worse than this match? Bearing in mind only matches featuring multiple world class players are valid (based on your own rules). And it has to be older than 40 years. Which one?
Our entire history!? Don't know, there 'may' have been but I wouldn't know, I haven't followed every Chelsea game for the entirety of the clubs history I have for the last 40 years though, I stick by what I said, I WILL have my opinion and I don't expect to get 'abuse' for having my opinion either. Let me ask you a question - don't you think 'people' should expect a team of world class players to perform to a higher level than a team of 'average' non-international players? Isn't that something that should be taken into account? For a great team to 'stink' must be performing worse than it is for a sh*t team to stink?
Do I think that we should have played better. OF COURSE! But you went way further and claimed something much more. You made the statement. You designed the criteria. So forgetting the all time aspect of it, what you are stating is that this win was the worst performance you personally have ever seen from a chelsea side?
Well I'm struggling to think of a worse one, I expect more from a multi-million pound set of players, I don't necessarily 'expect' a win, but to be outplayed and to be hanging on just like we were when in the Nou-Camp in 2012 against (with all due respect) a team of at best 'very average' players, if it was the class of 82-83 I might have expected it but there again that teams 'performance levels' were massively lower even on the odd occasion when they did perform, in other words when they performed well their standard of play was a lot worse. I've seen many a 'giant killing' but the number of times any team has been outplayed to the extent we were by the 'said' minnows is a far less common occasion, though Leeds came close when playing Crawley a couple of weeks ago - but I don't give a sh*t about Leeds.
Yes, how could the likes of Zola, Jimmy and Robbie have a hope of stopping the juggernaut that was Swiss yoyo side St Gallen?, http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/uefa_cup/945010.stm Or when Terry, Lampard and Gallas could not possibly have been expected to hold the mighty Viking Stavangar to fewer than 4 goals. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/oct/04/uefa.sport7 I would put these pitiful performances miles below what we saw on Thursday in terms of abject awfulness. Championship teams outperform Premier League teams every single year, this is not an anomaly and it's not the disgrace you make it out to be. Last time I checked, and no disrespect to the Red Devils, I don't check often, Crawley were a league Two side and there's a gulf in class between that level and the highly competitive Championship. So if we are talking duff comparisons, start right there. In fact, I would say calling Barnsley minnows is both condescending and disrespectful of lower league english football. Any Chelsea fan of any age should have a better sense of perspective than that. That's the sort of thing I'd expect from Barcelona fans.
Again, neither St. Gallen or Viking Stavangar 'outplayed' Chelsea the way Barnsley did yesterday, theres a big difference, we could have scored 6 against Stavangar and yet they bundled in a last minute winner, against Barnsley we created nothing and we were outplayed for 90 minutes and in the final 15 we were 'hanging on' like we were against Barcelona in 2012 - thats the difference, I don't think that in 40 years of supporting Chelsea I've seen a worse 'performance' by the sum of our parts. Oh and I'm not showing disrespect to Barnsley, we have a multi-million pound team stuffed full of internationals, they......do not, 'disrespect' is the venom I got back after posting my opinion on here!
Kepa had to make one very good save, maybe two ok saves all game long and despite our worst performance in 40 years, we dominated possession, weren’t given a stonewall pen and managed to score one very good goal. Outside of Tammy’s clearance, we were certainly up against it at times but otherwise...?
14 shots to 6, against Barnsley, ONE shot on target all game, against Barnsley. Sometimes high-end teams are victims of an 'upset' but rarely do they get outplayed that way, usually its the 'giant-killers' that make the most of their 'one shot on target' and manage to hold out against the onslaught - not the other way around!
I think calling a team from the championship minnows is 100% uncalled for and disrespectful. I will stand by that statement and if you consider that venomous, that's your right. Especially given that's where we got our last manager from (and he couldnt get a team promoted out of that league of so called minnows, a team that have been english champions twice no less, so must expect to be in the top flight each season). Posting an opinion doesnt give you immunity from having that challenged. Especially if the opinion is "this was the worst chelsea performance I've ever seen". But I will certainly keep in mind that you consider that championship teams are minnows (your choice of word) and that the nadir of 40 years of chelsea performances was a 1-0 win, on a bad pitch, with kepa in goal and 70%+ possession.
I would say they are not really a team, although it is a pricey selection of talent. Team implies some synergies that makes the sum greater than the total of the parts, the midfield to date has kept that from happening. It was a bad performance, but the other team gets a say too and they were never going to let it be a pretty football game. I have seen worse games from CFC and a couple of them have been mentioned in this thread. For one they got the points and advanced so it could have been a far poorer performance.
Facts..midfield has been an issue at the club ever since Frank left us (the player, that is). Mikel too. We really haven't had a successful, consistent set up there that lasted more than a season in a decade now. In that time, Matic/Fab, Kante/Matic and Kante/Fab (to a lesser degree) were the most regular, effective combinations we saw. It'll be interesting to see what Tuchel settles on. I don't think he's married to starting Jorginho who's ineffectiveness will (and has already started to) show. I tend to think the most obvious solution, playing Kante as the holder/clean up guy, is the best one. Our best run of form this season happened with him playing that role in a 4-3-3, though we've definitely seen Kante's best when he has played in a midfield pair. Kante, imo, will be the key to our would-be success this season.. now that he's healthy, I wonder who we'll see line up on Monday. Historically, this team has never won a title in the modern era without a reliable destroyer or holding mid. I find it hard to envision that ever not being the case.. basically, Jorg/Kov can work at times but it will never be a truly reliable combo. We need steel in there.
It's all about the gaps for me. Kante is effective in front of the backline but there are gaps in front of him . Play him higher up and there are gaps behind him. Like you say we need steel in there. We also need a tenacious ballhound who lives to chase down every ball in the middle of the park. It's all well and good having exciting forward players but if the ball gets to them slowly and coughed up easily the other way, it's not a recipe for success. Managers seem to fall in love with jorginho's distribution but it only works in a perfect bubble that mostly seems theoretical, not practical. No-one can doubt how splashy our buys were but there were, and remain, question marks about the tenacity we lack. Silva is a stopgap in defence and we didnt address it at all in midfield. Kai is like the anti-tenacity player. Billy has shown flashes but it's way too early to put the burden on him and not sure that's where he will excel anyway. We would benefit from a flat out baller in the middle of the park. At least with the way we set out the team right now. Kova moves the ball well enough but he also doesn't live for the hard yards.
No OK then Barnsley aren't 'minnows' compared to Chelsea, both clubs have the same resources right? I think YOU are being extremely disrespectful to me, that's your right too I suppose but like I said I stick to my opinion and I don't need someone like you being an a*rse about it. Nobody has managed to provide an example where Chelsea has been so outplayed by an inferior team or f*ckin minnows if you prefer.
I have but it’s like talking to wall. I don’t have the patience right now. Point blank you’re wrong. No one disagrees that we played very bad. You’ve moved the goalposts on your argument a few times now and it’s not worth further debate. You also tried to question fandom which is a massive red flag when someone is trying to debate a point. I’m not interested in your hot take any longer but wanted to commend the person who was trying to walk you through your folly. Instead of attacking maybe you should step back and reflect on your argument or discussion skills in general. We can further discuss other topics but I done with you on this point. Have a good Sunday.
I have NOT moved my goalposts, I still stick by what I said, I still cannot think of a game where we were outplayed so comprehensively by an inferior team, it's my opinion and I'm as entitled to my opinion as anybody else without getting attacked for having it, if you want to 'commend' a person for attacking me or my opinion then I would be grateful if you could send him a private 'pat on the back' because doing so on a public forum where I can see it just suggests to me that it's your intention to either get a 'rise out of me' or simply upset me, I hope you understand, have a good day and I hope 'we' win tomorrow.
KDB’s thoughtfulness in just about every post, even when I’m the one being a twat deserves some kind of award.
Please go back and read your posts you started with a blanket statement then added qualifiers after. That’s moving the goal posts. You’re absolutely entitled to have your opinion. Just as I or anyone else is entitled to question or challenge it. I didn’t personally attack you. In fact you were the one who attacked my fandom and tried to defect my comments as nothing more than some new fan. I hope you understand I don’t care about about your feelings good or bad. I’m not sitting here saying let’s ******** with some rando online. You made a statement and I disagreed. You escalated your tone. I don’t come here to post and get a pat on the back cause everyone agrees with me. I post my thoughts on my favorite team in a place where I know other people share their thoughts on the same team. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don’t. But we all get to talk about our favorite team. KDB continued to try and walk you through the evolution of your comments and you just doubled down on this conspiracy that we’re out to just shit on you. We can certainly agree on your last statement... I hope we win tomorrow too