To make it easier to accumulate votes, here is the short list of all the seasons of the 1930s. DÉCADA 30,S TOP 1930-31 1.- ORSI, Raimundo (Argentina) 2.- GSCHWEIDL, Fritz (Austria) 3.- JAMES, Alex (Escocia) 4.- MEAZZA, Giuseppe (Italia) 5.- BLUM, Josef (Austria) TOP 1931-32 1.- SINDELAR, Matthias (Austria) 2.- ORSI, Raimundo (Argentina) 3.- SCHALL, Toni (Austria) 4.- DEAN, Dixie (Inglaterra) 5.- FERREYRA, Bernabé (Argentina) TOP 1932-33 1.- SINDELAR, Matthias (Austria) 2.- MEAZZA, Giuseppe (Italia) 3.- ORSI, Raimundo (Argentina) 4.- Sarosi, György (Hungría) 5.- BASTIN, Cliff (Inglaterra) TOP 1933-34 1.- MEAZZA, Giuseppe (Italia) 2.- NEJEDLY, Oldrich (Checoslovaquia) 3.- QUINCOCES, Jacinto (España) 4.- ORSI, Raimundo (Argentina) 5.- MONZEGLIO, Eraldo (Italia) TOP 1934-35 1.- SÁROSI, György (Hungría) 2.- BRAINE, Raymond (Bélgica) 3.- BASTIN, Cliff (Inglaterra) 4.- FERRARI, Giovanni (Italia) 5.- HAPGOOD, Eddie (Inglaterra) TOP 1935-36 1.- MEAZZA, Giuseppe (Italia) 2.- SINDELAR, Matthias (Austria) 3.- SÁROSI, György (Hungría) 4.- Planicka, Frantisek (Checoslovaquia) 5.- NEJEDLY, Oldrich (Checoslovaquia) TOP 1936-37 1.- SÁROSI, György (Hungría) 2.- PIOLA, Silvio (Italia) 3.- ERICO, Arsenio (Paraguay) 4.- SZEPAN, Fritz (Alemania) 5.- MORENO, José Manuel (Argentina) TOP 1937-38 1.- SÁROSI, György (Hungría) 2.- LEÓNIDAS (Brasil) 3.- MEAZZA, Giuseppe (Italia) 4.- ERICO, Arsenio (Paraguay) 5.- BICAN, Josef (Austria) TOP 1938-39 1.- ERICO, Arsenio (Paraguay) 2.- ZSENGELLÉR, Gyula (Hungría) 3.- LAWTON, Tommy (Inglaterra) 4.- MORENO, José Manuel (Argentina) 5.- LÁNGARA, Isidro (España) TOP 1939-40 1.- BICAN, Josef (Austria) 2.- LEÓNIDAS (Brasil) 3.- BINDER, Franz (Austria) 4.- SÁROSI, György (Hungría) 5.- BALDONEDO, Emilio (Argentina)
Sorry: TOP 1938-39 1.- ERICO, Arsenio (Paraguay) 2.- ZSENGELLÉR, Gyula (Hungría) 3.- LAWTON, Tommy (Inglaterra) 4.- MORENO, José Manuel (Argentina) 5.- LÁNGARA, Isidro (España) 6.- SASTRE, Antonio (Argentina), 7.- ANDREOLO, Michele (Uruguay), 8.- BICAN, Josef (Austria), 9.- GARCÍA, Enrique (Argentina), 10.- BIAVATI, Amedeo (Italia), 11.- SZEPAN, Fritz (Alemania), 12.- FERNÁNDEZ, Teodoro (Perú), 13.- MASANTONIO, Herminio (Argentina), 14.- CULLIS, Stan (Inglaterra), 15.- Ben Barek, Larbi (Francia), 16.- HAHNEMANN, Wilhelm (Austria), 17.- JANES, Paul (Alemania), 18.- DE LA MATA, Vicente (Argentina), 19.- DOMINGOS da Guia (Brasil), 20.- Foni, Alfredo (Italia), 21.- PORTA, Roberto (Uruguay), 22.- OLIVIERI, Aldo (Italia), 23.- GARCÍA, Atilio (Uruguay), 24.- ALCALDE, Jorge (Perú), 25.- LEÓNIDAS (Brasil), 26.- Matthews, Stanley (Inglaterra), 27.- GILLICK, Torrance (Escocia), 28.- PURICELLI, Héctor (Italia), 29.- Walker, Tommy (Escocia), 30.- BICKEL, Alfred (Suiza), 31.- MERCER, Joe (Inglaterra), 32.- KORANYI, Désiré (Francia), 33.- Kupfer, Andreas (Alemania), 34.- Hiden, Rudi (Austria), 35.- Kitzinger, Albin (Alemania), 36.- Mattler, Ettiene (Francia), 37.- SCHÖN, Helmut (Alemania), 38.- PIOLA, Silvio (Italia), 39.- Aston, Alfred (Francia), 40.- Locatelli, Ugo (Italia), 41.- BINDER, Franz (Austria), 42.- MINELLI, Severino (Suiza), 43.- COLAUSSI, Gino (Italia). XI IDEAL Olivieri; Janes, Domingos; Sastre, Andreolo, Cullis; Biavati, Moreno, Erico, Zsengeller, Enrique García
You are right. In the italian press list, Solymosi is a "reserve" for Zito. The brazilian journal must have misplaced them while converting the "World XI" into an "Europe XI", to complement the first article about "Oscars Byrrh". I also read a piece (Jornal dos Sports - RJ) mentioning that Solymosi was expected to be some kind of successor to Boszik.
Partner, I may go deep into researching the Oscars tomorrow. I think I will need to ask you some questions, as I have a mess with the dates, let's see if between the two of us we can sort it out. Thanks.
I think Grigory Fedotov fully deserved be in top-40 this season. He was top scorer of Soviet league in 1939 and 1940 and also Sportsman of the year in USSR 1940. 1939 and 1940 was strongest in Fedotov's career when he was removed from outside left to centre. Fedotov are considered as third best forward in Soviet history after Streltsov and Blokhin.
I really had him as a candidate, but I couldn't find any data, probably because the databases are in Cyrillic characters. Could you provide any website with databases of Soviet soccer and other pages to be able to enter him in one of the seasons you refer to or later? Wasn't he an international with the USSR? For the Soviet players I usually manage a table with the 3 best XI, but just the 39 and 40 I don't have it.
1. Yes, I have the Russian lists of the top 33 USSR players for every year since 1917 and the full results of the voting for the best USSR player since 1964. I'll try to make an English version in excel or word and post it here. 2. Soviet league statistics are available in English as of late on transfermarkt.
I think we have all the doubts about the Oscars resolved. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/european-football-oscar-1964.2110706/#post-40429427
Yes, looks like it, with this good summary you made now The question I'd have is basically the same one MB had too (the mid 1963 XI does look like it'd make sense, and actually I guess it is that one which would be compared to the Il Calcio XI and the one from the Hungarian source, assuming it is the final end of season XI and not only the one for the second half of the season - that is the one thing I'm maybe not completely sure on but I think we are assuming the mid-1963 and mid-1964 XIs are based on the whole season aren't we, not just votes for the second half of it only?) I'm not inclined to change my calendar year vote for 1961 (IceBlood did say we shouldn't anyway, but I suppose my own final votes that are counted will be the 'hybrid' 18 month ones not the calendar year ones anyway), but I guess the 1961 list is calendar year, not 1960/61, and it's also in order for each position (so Pele actually came 3rd in voting for inside left, after Sivori and Haynes with that poll)?
The interesting thing is that the system of the 1962/63 XI changes from the end of 1962 (mid 62/63) XI to the end of season (mid 1963) XI: WM in the first case and 4-2-4 in the second (unless Trapattoni was voted for as half back, and Coluna as inside forward, but the line-up was shown as 4-2-4 because it seemed more like it on paper, the way Benfica/Portugal played by then, and with Trapattoni maybe being more the defensive half-back in that period like a 4th back, before playing more as the anchor midfielder at the start of the next season, which is where he is placed in the first half of 63/64 XI - if that is correct - I didn't try to check or refresh my memory about it fully today).
Except actually the Il Calcio XI and the Hungarian source (based on a wide poll) one are actually as per post #324, mid season ones and probably in effect end of 1962 calendar year votes (but I mean the mid 1963 one Titanlux posted re: the Oscars voting, with Moulijn, Coluna etc is probably the one that would be compared to any end of season XIs I think - sorry I just woke up not long ago and forgot some details temporarily lol!).
Yeah, so basically both 'Il Calcio e il Ciclismo Ilustrado' selections we have are calendar year based I think, in conclusion: 1961 and then 1962. For 1961, the World XI with three reserves per position in brackets - the full lists are shown by Titanlux (in bold qualifiers for the Europe XI) - I assume like I say the lists are in results order, although I'm not sure if there is any result indicated for best player unlike with the Hungarian source results for 1962, in the quoted section of post #324 which were 1= Garrincha, Pele, 3 - Masopust, 4 - Sekularac, 5 - Eusebio) Yashin (Bernard, Fraydi, Gilmar); Bergmark (Armfield, Durkovic, Matrai) Germano (Erhardt, Lejeune, Maldini) Jusufi (Losi, Novak, Schnellinger); *I'm assuming Jusufi and Losi both played more at left back, especially given that most of the side backs named seem to be right backs, but Losi may have been playing more at right back for example, as he did at the World Cup in '62 judging by line-ups listed here Planet World Cup - 1962 - Group B Zito (Blanchflower, Bonga Bonga, Flowers) Masopust (Benitez, Baxter, Hanappi); Kucera (Chinesinho, Haller, Sekularac) Sivori* (Haynes, Pele, Puskas) *Sivori considered Italian so presumably would be in the Europe XI; Dorval (Allemann, Cubillas of Uruguay, Garrincha) Buzek (Albert, Coutinho, Di Stefano) Seminario (Charlton, Gento, Kolev) For 1962 (full lists in the link in post #321 - by the way the comparisons I made before that in post #318 can be ignored now basically): Schrojf (Carbajal, Springett, Soskic); Armfield (Durkovic, Dubinsky, Troche) Maldini (Ure, Mauro, Dimitrov) Schnellinger (Novak, Nilton Santos?, Alvarez) - if it is Djalma Santos then he's 4th right back listed, and Marzolini would be 4th left back); Zito (Solymosi, Blanchflower, Sacchi) Masopust (Flowers, Netto, Baxter) * I assume Flowers is considered left half (although in post #324 in the quoted section he's in brackets after Solymosi's name so maybe it means he was selected for both right and left half and less at right half than Solymosi - also see Jones and Hamrin likewise as in post #324 Hamrin is placed in the XI with Jones in brackets, and I know Jones did play on both sides), since Solymosi was presented in the Europe XI, so maybe Flowers should have been left half for 1961 too but I just split the top rated half backs between right and left that time while making sure to place ones who were clearly right half like Zito/Blanchflower or clearly left half like Masopust/Baxter in the correct category - similar this time with Sacchi who perhaps could be left though also.... Sekularac (Ivanov, Eusebio, Kucera) Pele (Coluna, Suarez, Amarildo); Garrincha (Jones, Hamrin, Jurion) Albert (Klinger, Seeler, Kopa) Meskhi (Charlton, Seminario, Gento)
It probably would have been better to show the link to the France Football World Cup ratings wm442433 provided, rather than the PlanetWorldCup link, but Losi is also shown at right back there anyway: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/1962-world-cup-xi-by-dr-friedebert-becker.2004460/#post-40097307
This is good new footage by the way, with English commentary (including assessment that Milan wouldn't sit back and defend after just the one goal, but they would after three, which is how many they ended up with, as well as comments about Rivera and also the right winger looking like Garrincha so "Ipswich will hope he doesn't play like him") - AC Milan vs Ipswich from that 1961/62 season AC Milan v Ipswich Town European Cup 1962-3 - YouTube Rivera playing well on a waterlogged pitch, and Maldini featured too of course (and seeming a little like Paolo in the way he plays at certain moments I'd say).
We are still curious about quite a few things regarding this issue, but it seems that the 4 semester votes are the ones I put in the corresponding thread. How would the votes be done? Would they be cumulative in the total interval of 4 semesters or would a new one start in each semester? I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later.
Yes I guess these are the possibilities: a) Cumulative like ESM (perhaps once a month), with the first XI in mid season indicating the latest standings and also in effect an XI for the first half of the season. b) Cumulative with one vote at the end of each 'semester'. c) Separate votes at end of each semester, but the second one is for all of the season. d) Separate votes at end of each semester, and the second one is only for the second half of the season. My guess might be option c but I guess we can't be sure at the moment....(b would be my next guess maybe)
I'm going to add my 1965/66 Ballon d'Or vote now, and then settle on a vote for this thread based on that season and 1966 calendar year also: 1965/66 (Move your mouse to reveal the content) 1965/66 (open) 1965/66 (close) 1965/66 1) Eusebio, 2) Pele, 3) Bobby Charlton, 4) Franz Beckenbauer, 5) George Best Eusebio had a season of many goals but lots of near misses on the trophy front, culminating in the 3rd place for Portugal at the World Cup, in which he starred as a near-irrepressible forward of energy, skill, power, pace, creativity and accuracy. His team Benfica lost out to Sporting Lisbon domestically and Manchester United in the European Cup, but he did plenty to try and prevent it, scoring multiple times vs the former as well as setting one up during a comeback attempt in Benfica's home match, and drawing plaudits and setting up goals in the first leg of the European tie in Manchester, before United's great performance in Lisbon. He is as dynamic as ever, and was joint top scorer both in Portugal and the European Cup, and of course he scored more than anyone in the World Cup while performing the great comeback vs North Korea, and helping put out Brazil. He surely merits my first place vote, but he might have had a near miss here too had it not been for the injury to Pele who had been prolific in the Paulista championship, decisive with goals and a quality assist in the Taca Brazil, very promising in pre-World Cup games with Brazil (including vs Atletico Madrid on the eve of the tournament), and the author of some great goals since summer 1965 as Guarani and Czechoslovakia fans are well aware of. Having made a great start to the World Cup vs Bulgaria he surely had more to show if he'd not picked up an injury during that game and had it made worse by the Portuguese, but he has to settle for 2nd in my vote consequently. Charlton has had a great season, both with Manchester United (scoring freely and sometimes very impressively in the league and playing his part prominently in the European Cup run and great team performance in Lisbon), and he too made a big impact in the World Cup, especially vs Mexico and Portugal, as his country lifted the trophy for the first time. Hungarian pair Florian Albert and Ferenc Bene would head up a list of other contenders, after generally impressive and productive seasons for their clubs, and some fantastic play (such as Albert's performance vs Brazil, and Bene's individual goal in that game) in the World Cup too, but a couple of new stars take the final places in my vote - Beckenbauer the speedy but smooth German of Bayern Munich, who was also one of the stars of the World Cup, and the young, fluid winger or roving midfielder Best who was brilliant as United got past Benfica, but also contributed a very good amount of goals during the season and set some up too, and had some other noted performances like in Leicester, but also during the FA Cup run United had. He was unlucky to pick up an injury before the season ended, but I feel he had done enough to make my selection. Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content) Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler 1965/66 & 1966 1) Eusebio, 2) Bobby Charlton, 3) Franz Beckenbauer, 4) Pele, 5) Florian Albert
Also relevant on that thread (especially for the season/year I just covered myself) but a bit hidden on that thread maybe (I did copy over 1966 World Cup ratings data to the 1966 World Cup thread, but not this IIRC), since we have been talking about world XIs for particular years/seasons.... I've bolded the Associated Press world XI and reserve XI for 1966, as well as a Yugoslav attempt at top 10 European players of the year, or in general at that time (I'm not certain which it would have been), but left in the World Cup ratings from the People newspaper (France Football ones are also on that World Cup 1966 thread though). Maybe some of you haven't seen this before, although many of you probably have. I think my write-ups might be getting a bit long now lol, but I guess it's helpful in some ways to indicate as much as possible and to give examples of games/goals/assists etc that stand out where feasible (to a reasonable extent). When I said this below I meant Guarani fans and Czechoslovakia fans, not fans of Guarani and Czechoslovakia obviously (which would be a bit of a niche group!) "and the author of some great goals since summer 1965 as Guarani and Czechoslovakia fans are well aware of" I was referring to the goals from 1:03 in the first video below and 2:30 in the second one anyway Santos 7 X 0 GUARANI - Campeonato Paulista. 11/09/65 - YouTube Pele -Top 10 Impossible Goals Ever - YouTube EDIT - I didn't actually specifically mention that 65/66 was the season this performance (with goal against Yashin and plenty of skills and good play) was in in the write-up actually though: 1965 home Pelé vs Soviet Union (with Lev Yashin) - from 54 minutes of footage - YouTube For anyone who has not opened the spolier, this doesn't necessarily mean I placed Pele first for 65/66 or the 18 month vote btw!