Looks like I'm swimming upstream but the 4th should be at Invesco for the same reason the CU/CSU game is going back. To allow the most number of people to see it. The game has transended being another league game, it's become a front range event. Last night maybe 25-30,000 people, who otherwise would never go to an MLS game, showed up and saw (at least part) of a Rapids game, how is that not a good thing? I see no upside to shutting out 20,000 or more people from seeing the game, but I'm willing to be educated
I was in section 105 right behind the team benches and I would venture a guess that at least 90% of the people sitting there had been to a Rapids game previously. They all seemed knowedgable and many had jerseys of one sort or another, not necessarily Colorado. I'm wondering if the problem isn't necessarily educating people to appreciate soccer as much as it is getting the soccer fans who already exist to come to games other than July 4th. How was it in your section?
I'm in 122 and towards the field where I am It's usually about 50% empty and I recognize many of the people around me. Last night it was at least 95% full and to be perfectly honest, I didn't pay that much attention to them. Your question is a good one and it would be interesting to see if the Rapids have ever done any demographic analysis of the 4th crowd to try and answer it. I was always (maybe mistakenly) under the impression that most of the crowd were mainly there for the fireworks.
That HAS to be the case....nothing else seems to make sense. Otherwise you are saying there are over 30,000 educated and soccer friendly Denverites that refuse the only live soccer they get to see on a regular basis. That they never come out to any game, no matter how interesting the matchup, no matter what big name player they bring with them, not even in the playoffs. I find that extremely hard to believe.
Well, it's hard to figure out this one without actually doing a survey but I based some of my analysis on the large number of people who watched and cheered the entire game versus the few people who came in later just to see the fireworks. And I count someone as a soccer fan if they know when to boo the ref on a call that goes against the home team. Very unscientific, I know, but it might mean something.
i'm not agruing against you Mr. James ... but I'd like to clarify something. The July 4th game is VERY important because as Mr. James says ... this is your casual fan night! You stick this thing in the new stadium and you're going to cut your exposure to the casual fan dramatically: Looking at last year: 212,925 tickets were "sold" for the 15 home games for an average of 14,195 But we all know about 10,000 is the typical game ... with July 4th and Freddy adding a lot. Here's some numbers just based on logic(okay mine - so it could be bad logic!): if 5,000 people go to just about every game ... that's 75,000 of 212,925 tickets sold. if 10,000 go to 6 games ... 60,000 if 20,000 go to 2 games ... 40,000 if 40,000 go to 1 game ... 40,000 Total 215,000 ... meaning there's 75,000 people out there that will go to a Rapids game at some point during the year. Going by those numbers, the devoted base is about 15,000 and the casual fans are like 60,000. If by some mircale, there were 20,000 season tickets sold, your devoted fan base will go to 20,000 (+5,000) and your casual fans base would drop from 60,000 to 0. But obviously there are other factors, that make sticking this in the new stadium logical too: #1 - 100% concessions/parking of 20,000 to the team as opposed to 25%(?no idea) of 42,000 from invesco #2 - No Rent ... which I assume is a minimum of $10 a ticket. #3 - July 4 game could have a HIGHER TICKET PRICE than the rest of the regular season due to demand. Just throwing stuff out there that is probably wrong and makes no sense!
In a metropolitan area of 2.5 million, I don't find that to be impossible leap of faith that there's 30,000 real soccer fans who don't come to Rapids games all the time. Heck, there's probably that many people playing in the various recreational leagues around town. And there's probably at least 60,000 parents in Denver who watch and support their kids playing soccer. There has to be at least 100,000 Mexican soccer fans living in Denver, just judging from the number of people I see wearing MFL jerseys. In my own experience, I played with a group of older guys indoor and I would guess that out of 40 or so players, there might be only 3 or 4 who regularly attended Rapids games. The problem is not lack of soccer fans. It's that they don't come to MLS games.
I tend to agree but I really have no "facts" which point to one theory over another. I can offer a completely unscientific, statistically insignificant anecdote however . I have 2 season tickets. I go and my wife and two daughters share the other seat (they have lives, I don't ) The last two years I used the four extra tickets to bring friends and remaining family. Plus last year I bought one extra and this year two extra tickets. That means last year the DavidJames clan consisted of 7 and this year 8 people. What does the analysis show? 40% of "us" only show up for the 4th. 27% of "us" are regular attendees and 33% are occasional attendees. hmmm...
But they do come to one game a year, on 4th of July? Is that your contention? Sorry...I just don't buy it. People are there for the fireworks, but they aren't being sold on the soccer so they don't come back. Perhaps some of them are soccer savvy and happen to enjoy the fireworks at the same time and the lack of anything other then mediocre soccer for every other game isn't enough of a pull....but is that really the majority of the 30,000?? No way.....I just can't believe that.
Apparently just because people play soccer doesn't mean they are fans of the game. I mean, I play chess occasionally but I'm not going to see Alexei Shirov vs. Michael Adams unless there are fireworks involved. I'm just sayin'.
tex, I don't think we necessarily disagree. I'm just saying that the people who come on July 4th aren't totally ignorant of soccer. They understand the game, at least from a spectator perspective. Are they dedicated fans? Well , probably not. Sure the fireworks are a motivation. But they can enjoy the game if there's a way to get them to show up for the other games of the season. I think we'd both agree that MLS needs to convert more of these type of fans to be a success.
I guess my problem is that they aren't being converted. The Rapids have been drawing big for the 4th for a while now and no significant change in attendance has resulted. I'm sure that there are people in the Rapids FO whose job it is to create events to get people to the games....so its not like they aren't trying. But so far the only thing that's worked is fireworks and that has failed to retain anybody. My whole point is that these people haven't been converted. They are obviously not Rapid regulars, and despite being exposed once a year to the league, they choose not to come back. Hence.....its going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to grow the attendance around the league in any significant manner. Hey, if they are educated fans and they choose not to come, what chance does MLS have with the novices??
io don't agree with your premise. With the exception of 2000 and the World Cup bumps the attendance has grown in Colorado until KSE took over and slashed the advertising budget. Colorado went from being pretty lousy in attendance in the late 90's to having the league best in 2002. Slightly down in 2003 (WC bump in 2002) and then dropping in 2004 and 2005 due to the KSE advertising slash. But we averaged 20K in 2002, that's a very positive step.
Yes, we do agree. It bothers me too. Last night I went to the game really curious and I was trying to figure out where these extra 30k people were from. I almost expected them to be sitting on their hands waiting for some guys to stop kicking the silly ball so the fireworks could start. But they were really into the game. I wish I had a solution to the attendance problem. Is it a new stadium? Well, I guess we're going to find out pretty soon.
Maybe the reason that all the new fans were really "into the game" last night had something to do with the fact that it was a fast paced game with all sorts of shots screaming past the nets and off the posts. Maybe they enjoyed watching their underdog home town team play for more than a half with only 10 players and the fact that they came from a goal down to win the match. Maybe it was seeing the home town favorite in goal live up to his reputation by amking a fantastic save in the final minutes to preserve the win. A team that hustles and plays exciting soccer will always help to fill some of those empty seats. That's my 2 cents worth...adios
That's what pisses me off. There's a lot of soccer fan's in Colorado,New York,Chicago. They just wont support MLS.
Is that the fault of the fans or the fault of MLS? If they don't like the product, how can you blame them?
It could only be the fans' fault if they were all obligated to like MLS enough to attend Rapids games regularly. It would be MLS' fault if they had a responsibility to put buts in the seats of Invesco. If there is a problem with possible fans not attending games, then it is the front office and organization's fault. However, since KSE seems think there is no problem, it certainly can't be their fault. I blame Ward Churchill.
It's KSE's fault for not being more aggresive in advertising. But, if more people came to games, the league could afford all these players that we can't keep around and possibly some better developmental programs. So, in a way it is the casual fan's fault. I say who cares, we are fans and we are showing up to every home game (right?) so lets just enjoy it when we win and complain when we lose. Repeat and then rinse.
Slash in promotional budget due to money being put into a stadium Slash in Rapids team talent due to moron coach (Hankinson) Slash in Current Rapids team due to slash in spending on Players (Cooke, Nkong, Melamed, MIA) - hey I've giving FC an excuse here! Equals less ticket sales to see a snoozer (generally) of a team Which in turn means less people at the games. Or maybe it has to do with who you count going to the game? Whatever it is ... it lies squarely on KSE. I have friends that like to watch MLS. I have just as many friends that DO NOT like to watch the Rapids.
I too think it's the faullt of Ward Churchill. How many native americans did you see in the stands on the 4th. Someone needs to look into this matter a bit further.....
I'm personally shocked our front office hasn't tried to acquire an American Indian to attract their fan base. If worse comes to worse, we can just let Denton keep growing his hair out and start calling him "Big Chief Plays Like Crap". It'd be at least as convincing as Churchill's act. Maybe we can even get some tribe to issue Eric an official tribe membership card.