Aston Villa v. Arsenal, Tuesday July 21 2020, 2015 GMT

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by mebeSajid, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There's a significant problem with Arsenal's attacking play that has been prominent since the beginning of Emery's reign: our inability to get touches in what's known as Zone 14, or more generally speaking, the central area in front of the opponent's box. It was blatantly obvious today that this was highlighted especially in our 3-4-3 formation, that we have nobody centrally who can connect midfield with attack. Here's an overview of the problem:

    https://theshortfuse.sbnation.com/2...s-missing-zone-14-touches-tactical-shift-wide

    And this is highlighted in our play from today, where you see our heat play map:

    1285715575755419649 is not a valid tweet id


    It's a holdover from Emery's pattern of build-up that has not been changed or cured under Arteta. It's a massive problem when you're facing inferior teams intent on bunkering though, especially if they are physically bigger than you and not at risk to crossing. In terms of formation though, it's very hard to stimulate play in this zone using a 3-4-3 formation, because you're relying on your CF to drop deep, which is exactly what has been happening.

    One notable point about this issue: Ozil has never been the guy to take the most touches in this area, despite our prejudices around him as a classic 10. In fact, during his tenure, his highest touch finish in this zone was second in 2015/16. Otherwise it's been Cazorla, Sanchez, Giroud, Ramsey, and recently Aubameyang who have dominated these touches. Obiously it doesn't seem ideal that your CF is getting the most touches in this zone--it seems symptomatic of a team that is not controlling matches or as forward on the pitch as they'd like to be.
     
  2. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    And in terms of chances created and overall output, that problem is reflected in this chart that I stole from Reddit:

    [​IMG]

    Just no creativity in the midfield whatsoever. There's a massive hole in the attacking midfield that needs to be addressed before we can get better.
     
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  3. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Unai Emery must be rehired and cryogenically frozen until interstellar travel is invented. When Interstellar travel is invented, he must be launched to the nearest black hole. There, he must be forced to watch the last five league games of the 2018/2019 season as he crosses the event horizon, which will take all of eternity to happen.
     
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  4. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to wade too far into the Özil discussion quagmire, but while he wouldn’t ever dominate touches in that area (it was actually elite counterattacking that made him the greatest pure creator of his generation) he is definitely a guy who plays passes into that area. So you can still make the argument that his absence is a big part of that particular problem.

    Also, this is the first I’ve seen of this analysis, and while I’d have to do some digging and thinking before I can say I’m totally convinced by it, it is the only thing I’ve seen that provides some explanation of why we have so much difficulty generating shots.
     
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  5. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Don't overthink it. Ozil is crap.
     
  6. InTheSun

    InTheSun Member+

    Oct 20, 2005
    The Andes Mountains
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    #81 InTheSun, Jul 21, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
    I saw a caption earlier today (can't find now) of R.Holding in the 2H with the ball near midfield looking to pass. Nobody in yellow in front of him for 25 yards or so. It's undeniable that Ozil made a living finding space in those and other areas. So, maybe he's past it and can't do it anymore - it's hard to tell with him sitting at home, but I know a couple of our midfielders playing tonight definitely can't, so maybe we need to find someone who can.
     
  7. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Over everything else, these last 4-5 games have illustrated the need for investment in the playing squad. We can be really really good or we can be pretty much crap.

    For the squad as it is, we need everybody to be playing pretty well at the same time. Saka has been a good player for us this year, and I didn't see him do anything especially horrible, but if he's not doing anything special, we're not able to establish any kind of dominance. Same with Torreira, same with PEA, same with Cedric (except I blame him for the Villa goal). Sometimes we might still get lucky and win, but this is the kind of a team where we have to beat routinely if we're going to have any kind of success.
     
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  8. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    Xhaka - 27 years old, 2501 minutes, 1 big chance created, 1 goal , 2 assists
    Ozil - 31 years old, 1448 minutes, 1 big chance created, 1 goal, 2 assists
    Willock - 20 years old, 787 minutes, 1 big chance created, 1 goal, 1 assist

    The idea that Xhaka is the linchpin of the midfield or that Ozil would fix what is missing in this squad is an indictment of how awful the midfield is. They aren't providing any more production than a 20-year-old academy product that is often accused of not being good enough for Arsenal. The truth is that neither Xhaka nor Ozil is good enough and Arsenal should be looking to replace both of them, not build around them.
     
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  9. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    management version of tactical foul?
     
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  10. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    saw the lineup in the official facebook post and it confused me. nketiah and lacazette just cannot play together. they occupy the same space and performs the same role.
     
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  11. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    343 is good vs teams u co cede possession to

    it’s shit when u play villa

    and it’s even worse with 3 central strikers in the top and a cm like torreira who is an average passer and not fast at moving the ball. Pathetic display

    I hope arteta is ya king to show how terrible the squad is
     
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  12. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    for all of our . . . lack of quality, the winger slot is, like, THE one place we have depth (we can argue about the actual quality of said depth).

    and we rolled nketiah out there.
     
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  13. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    this is why we need better passers deeper and a creative cm that can play higher up

    Liverpool use firminho in this area and it benefits the wide players just as giroud does for William and pulisic

    we need a midfielder in this role if we keep auba and want to play a normal striker
     
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  14. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think that Arteta genuinely wants to play who he considers the best performers in training each week, to help foster a performance culture. If so it's telling that nobody beat Nketiah to the RW position--but yeah it could be injuries or something too
     
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  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Nothing to see here

     
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  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Ozil tends to operate out of the right or left half space
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Exactly.

    Ozil's strength is to drift out of the central zone into the right or left half space.

    From that position he will either try to break down the defence with a pass in behind or play in a "big chance" type ball

    This is exactly how Guardiola also plays - you'll find KDB or Silva in the half space as well. Like you say, usually it would be a different player involved in zone 14 during the buildup. But its a very crowded space - hence why players like KDB (and Ozil previously) tend to deliver the killer ball from the half space.

    Fabregas is an example of a guy who was very dangerous in the D - so more a "zone 14" player than a half space player
     
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  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    There was an indepth analysis posted last year in the depths of the Emery era that showed the collapse of the attack in general, and how it was caused by Emery's diabolical midfield tactics and spacing.

    I think it is underrated just how much of Arsenal's xG and xA was delivered by Alexis and Ozil, with Giroud a very effective foil (Ozil used to be able to pick out Giroud very nicely from the halfspace)

    There. is no doubt some of Ozil's collapse in chance quality is driven by age but we saw how good he still was before lockdown.

    At the end of the day, the main issue is the overall lack of quality, combined with trying to sort out the tactical mess at the back.

    Remember Emery was supposedly sorting the defence yet both attack and defence got worse.

    I think there is some evidence that Arteta is sorting the defence, but the attack is threadbare when you look at the lack of quality say compared to Liverpool or even Utd who now have 2 elite CMs
     
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  19. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005

    Look, for another player such things are probably important. But for Ozil, it's all so much word salad. For years and years now,

    1. He refuses to accept any responsibility for Arsenal's competitive success (or the lack of it), or his own level of performance (or lack of it).
    2. His attitude towards money is 100% "FU, pay me."
    3. He has insisted on, and been granted, various special dispensations, unlikely to be available for any other player.

    It's hard to imagine the level of performance that could justify the metric fkucton of baggage that Ozil brings. But we don't have to work that hard, because whatever that level is, Ozil is miles short of it. Ozil is a cancer on Arsenal beyond pretty much any other professional athlete that comes to mind.
     
  20. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    It’s also worth noting that when you build an offense around the wings playing crosses into the box it helps to have a center forward who is dominate in the air. Arsenal sold that player six months before Emery arrived.
     
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  21. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    How do you know any of this?
    1) Are you a psychic able to read minds?
    2) Because he refused a pay cut? More teams took deferrals that pay cuts, which means that eventually the players get paid in full. Since Arsenal didn’t pull off the miracle of making the Champion’s league, the players who agreed to cuts won’t get paid in full. BTW Stan Kroenke actually increased his fortune after he pandemic arrived.
    3) What special dispensations?

    Finally, a cancer on Arsenal? Are you in the locker room? Do you know his relationship with the other players?

    We know you don’t like him, but don’t accusations without evidence.
     
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  22. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Streamed the game late last night. In hindsight that was a bit of a mistake... two hours of my life I’ll never get back.

    Pathetic, anemic, impotent, etc, etc

    Yeah we badly need connective play in MF. But Ozil is no longer worth discussing IMO. For whatever reason/s he isn’t really an AFC player anymore, just a financial liability. Sad.

    Anyway our loss yesterday had nothing to do with Ozil. It had all to do with @thebigman who bottled his routine.
     
  23. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You generally don't see a ton of zone 14 players anymore - players move far too much to camp in that zone. You still see players that operate a lot in half-spaces: watching the way City intentionally worked the ball into half spaces on Saturday was something to behold.

    Though that's not something that a team must do to attack - Liverpool, for example don't target the half spaces nearly as much, because they rely on their fullbacks for creativity.

    Just watching Arsenal, though, it seems clear that attacking the half spaces is what Arteta wants to do, but Arsenal have only one player who can do that, and we've frozen him out because . . . reasons. And we sold the other player in the squad who could do that for a really low fee because, well, Sanllehi.
     
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  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    That is not really the point. Ozil is nearly 32. He was one of the best players before lockdown and is now excluded for reasons unknown. But clearly he cannot be anything other than a short term fix for the teams problems. But whatever his role (if any) it won't be fixing the issue @Super Llama raised because Ozil has always been a half space player.

    If we are playing with 3 forwards, you would expect those positions to be taken up by one of the forwards, or the 8
     
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  25. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah zone 14 is strikers these days and the wide forwards cutting inside

    creative fullbacks like taa (originally a cm like amn) and drone midfielders seems to work our attacking cms in the half space like Fernandez or de bruyne
     

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