Assist Ruling [R] - (SJ-COL)

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by kickin365, Aug 24, 2002.

  1. kickin365

    kickin365 Member

    Mar 4, 2002
    I have noticed that MLS gives out an assist for just about anything these days. In todays COL-SJ game Pablo was given an assist on the first goal. Why? For those of you who didn't see it....

    Pablo had the ball about 60 yards from the goal Colorado was attacking. Under no defensive pressure he passed a square ball to Valderamma (15 feet away) who took a few touches looked around and sent a long ball (35 yards) to Carreri who carried in on goal and scored. How is this an assist for Pablo? When pablo played that square ball to Valderamma did he know Valderamma would send the long ball over the top? I doubt it.

    I can understand giving an assist to the player who originates the goal. If for example Valderamma played a long ball to carreri who was in on goal and dropped it off to a player next to him who knocked it in - its okay to give Valderamma the assist.

    Has there been a rule change on this? What do you guys think.
     
  2. BerwynBlazers

    BerwynBlazers Member

    Jul 23, 2001
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    have you ever played soccer or fantasy soccer in your life?
     
  3. kickin365

    kickin365 Member

    Mar 4, 2002
    played and watched my whole life my friend. Never noticed so many assists given out.
     
  4. Elizabeth

    Elizabeth New Member

    Apr 22, 2002
    Columbus, Ohio
    I remember reading that MLS was doing away with the second assist rule this year...evidently, that did not occur. Most of the "second" assists I've seen was just basic moving the ball forward. Ridiculous. If they want to keep the rule, it should be evaluated as a true reason the goal happened.

    I know that is very subjective...but there are times when a lot of work, winning the ball, beating a few defenders, and laying off for a perfect one touch to the scorer may be considered a second asist. But I hate the rule.
     
  5. GoHawks4

    GoHawks4 Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its just like hockey, the 2 people to have the ball before the goal scorer get assists.
     
  6. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    No hockey is different because it is so much tighter. The second assist is crucial, while in soccer it isn't.
     
  7. GoHawks4

    GoHawks4 Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not really. I've seen plays where the goalie will touch up behind the net, a defenseman picks it up and skates the length of the ice centers the puck and somebody scores. Goalie still gets an assist.
     
  8. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm going with my first impression/gut instinct here, and that was--that was no assist. I said it out loud (to an unappreciative and uninterested audience consisting of my parents and my son) "How can that be an assist?"
    Nothing against Pablo--who I have a high regard for. It is simply that it is RIDICULOUS--I don't care what the rules or the precedants are--to consider something like that an "assist."
     
  9. BerwynBlazers

    BerwynBlazers Member

    Jul 23, 2001
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you don't think he should get an assist, just send a letter to MLS then, I'm sure they will listen to you.
     
  10. Tejas

    Tejas Member+

    Jun 3, 2000
    Tejas
    The NBA and NHL have assists.

    This is my full response.
     
  11. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But they take two completely different approaches.

    The NHL is like MLS in that scorers seem to go out of their way to hand out as many assists as possible.

    I prefer the NBA's approach where a pass is scored as an assist only if it leads directly to a score.
     
  12. Rowdie

    Rowdie New Member

    Jan 27, 2000
    The second assist is pointless, but so is the primary assist in that its just for the American statistical psyche to absorb. No sport, except for some positions in football (offensive line, special teams) numbers matter less than soccer. Producing goals is worth keeping track of, but a lot of players produce few numbers but do a lot that is off the radar of the statistics.
     
  13. Elizabeth

    Elizabeth New Member

    Apr 22, 2002
    Columbus, Ohio
    Rowdie , that is incorect that Americans came up with the assist. It's always been recognized in football. The second assist is the question here. Ane it is dumb to have it exist.
     
  14. Red Card

    Red Card Member+

    Mar 3, 1999
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Someday someone will invent the third assist, then the fourth, until the whole team gets an assist for every goal.
     
  15. Elizabeth

    Elizabeth New Member

    Apr 22, 2002
    Columbus, Ohio
    Like they say...it takes the whole team to score:) Give 'em all a raise.
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I'm not a big fan of 2nd assists, but I don't mind them but for one problem:

    Since assists are used in both MLS and NHL for scoring titles, players are penalized for give and go's.

    You should be able to get a secondary assist on your own goal. If you score secondary assists, it should not matter who made the assist. Give and gos are great plays, but they are scored differently than plays involving three players.
     
  17. stinky

    stinky New Member

    May 14, 2000
    Long Beach, NY
    based on my observations, it based not on 2 players, one player or even 3 players....but more on the time between a pass and the goal....ie..if pablo passed it then within 10 seconds a goal was scored, mls would give him an assist....if valderrama held the ball for a little bit longer, then passed it, pablo wouldn't....

    sometimes they give a goalie and assist if he passes it out, the midfielder immediately sends it down, then the forward scores....
     
  18. Cweedchop

    Cweedchop Member+

    Mar 6, 2000
    Ellicott City, Md
    The following plays have been given assists this year:

    Example #1:

    Steve Ralston rings a shot off the post and it rebounds out to Taylor Twellman who bicycle kicks it in the net for an outstanding goal..

    How Ralston gets an assist on this play is beyond me..


    Example #2:

    Santino Quaranta is sent thru on a breakaway against the Metros and shoots low to the corner and Tim Howard parries it out where Jamie Moreno taps in the rebound..

    Assist to Quaranta...



    ???????????????????????



    Considering these two examples, the assist given to Mastroeni is pretty clear cut to me considering what their stupid standards are..

    Let's remember this is the league that actually credited a goal to Twellman for "being the closest near the ball" despite the goalkeeper clearly punching the ball into his own net without Twellman coming near the ball..

    It's funny, the rest of the planet refers to those types of plays as "own goals", but here in good ol' America, it's called a legitimate goal.....
     
  19. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002


    Not me. I agree with this 100%. Bang the post enough times and someone will be there to knock it in. It should be reflected in the stats.
    Ditto. Just like McBride in the WC. A very good play that will result in goals. Definitely should be reflected in the stats.
    You shouldn't have any questions. I want my stats to tell me who has produced. Plays like those cited above will result in goals.

    Their standards are great, miles ahead of the idiotic standards of Europe. The fact that there will be some dubious cases changes nothing. That always is the case. Anytime you draw a line there will arguments.
    We're far, far better at sports stats than the rest of the world and I wouldn't dare concede an inch. The next step we need to make is to get rid of PKs as goals and award them to the player penalized.

    I don't know anything about the Twellman play, but that appears to be an error. However, I wouldn't have minded seeing Donovan receive credit for a goal in the WC.
     
  20. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Excellent. I wouldn't want to call it an assist, but let's keep track of this. Definitely.
     
  21. TomEaton

    TomEaton Member

    Mar 5, 2000
    Champaign, IL
    Regarding the practice of not awarding a second assist to a player who also scores the goal, I think the idea was that once you added up a player's goals and assists you could see how many goals he directly contributed to. Being credited with both a goal and an assist when only one goal was actually scored would tend to mess that up. Whether this is the "right" way to do it can be argued.

    I personally prefer the "objective" system MLS uses for the second assist (if the second assist is to be used at all) rather than having some guy up in the press box subjectively determine whether a player truly contributed to the goal. In the end, the players who pile up assists do in fact tend to be the ones who help create goals, and the few cases where an unwarranted assist is credited don't seem to skew the numbers too much. Besides, if secondary assists are to be subjectively determined, why not do the same for primary assists and goals? Sometimes an attacking player fails to get out of the way of a teammate's shot, and accidentally deflects it into the goal. He gets credited for a goal anyway, and should.
     

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