Anyway, Arsene Wenger is most definately one of the top managers of the world today. He turned a mediocre Arsenal anno 1996 which were going nowhere, into a top 10 European team on a limited budget. He has spend something like £30 mill compared to United's 90 mill and Chelsea's zillions. Look at Arsenal's third team who beat The Pride of Manchester's first team midweek. A 3rd team built by Wenger. The fact that he won the double in his second season is incredible, it took Purplenose 6 seasons to win the league. The fact is that every top European club would love to have Wenger including Real Madrid, but he turned them down. Top English managers of all time: Chapman Nicholson Busby Ramsey Robson Shankly Stein Paisley Clough Perhaps Greenwood?? I may have forgotten one or two, but all the above were innovative and changed the game in one way or another, and I think we could easily add Fergie, O'Neil and Wenger to the list as well. All the above have brought fame and fortune to low achieving teams, maybe with the exception of Paisley who carried on winning where Shankly had left.
And I understand your point. Look at the press though. Immortal? I don't really think so. Praise is great, but only in moderation. Once you go over a line, it begins to devalue the achievement and that is what's happening. Motterman has brought up the Man Utd unbeaten run on the other board. The press praise for that achivement wasn't anywhere near the level that Arsenal received. Does only winning one league make Arsenal the greatest club side ever? With the Man Utd run, it was in all competitions, against better opposition and resulted in a treble. Yet this has all been forgotten with the ridiculous Arsenal praise. Of course you deserve praise for a great achievement, but in moderation! As for Ferguson , many people forget all about what he achieved with Aberdeen. That's what makes him one of, if not the best, in my opinion. Being Scottish also helps!
Celtic's first two? they looked a little suspect, they did not show the side replay where you can see if they were offside or not. I did not think Livi should've had any players sent off, Celtic is falling, and I could not go for the underdog because i was watching it with the Celtic Supporters Club in Chicago.
Cheers. If it's a dubious decision, the pro Old Firm press will tend to ignore it. I was referring to the possible sendings off of Sutton, Hartson and Lennon. Oh well, I wonder if MoN will blame Livi for their loss to Aberdeen...
I think there is two schools of thought here ,the football kind or the total football(soca)kind of playing the game, Arsene Wengers side I think do play an unbelievable brand of attacking soccer,with lots of movement and pace,United have played a more traditional kind of play where they do play their to their strengths and do change their tactics from game to game. I do suppose thats the main cause of your problem why Man Utd hasn't got as much praise as Arsenal.
i think this is a really good point... these are two very different sides with one similiarity - both are extremely good football clubs. obiovusly, i think arsenal are the better team, but that's another story... about what this tesos guy is saying with regards to arsenal getting too much praise for doing nothing much, well, i think the brand of domestic football was truly superior but yes, the fact that we haven't won in europe does take some of it away.... but keep in mind that arsenal and its fans are not responsible for what the media chooses to say about them!! this is how the press makes money; they build you up so that they can tear you down and sell many copies both ways... that's life. anyway, this is supposed to be about WENGER!! IMO, one of the best around, definitely. has to win in europe to be a legend but i know he'll do it. he has put together such a talented team with so much less money than real or man u or, of course, chelsea. and i truly think no other manager is better at finding young talent (tho' admittedly i don't follow the other leagues too closely) but wenger has his faults... definitely. the biggest for me is his refusal to ever admit to his players' mistakes... now, don't get me wrong, i'm all for loyalty and i'd never wanna see him be a mourinho where players mean nothing unless they're doing exactly as you say nor do i want him to be a dictator-type manager. but you have to be able to acknowledge flaws in order to fix them... that said, he did do a pretty good job with discipline after the last OT fracas... things have improved, but obviously the latest incidents indicate that there's more work to be done. anyway, i love wenger and i'm really glad he's staying...
I agree with a lot in there. It has annoyed me slightly in the past Wenger's ability to turn a blind eye to Arsenal's own faults. I guess he speak to the players in private if he's unhappy about something rather than telling them off in front of the press which can be undermining to team morale. The guy knows what he's doing. Its all psychology, he built his players up mentally with incredible belief in themselves.
Henrik - has Dave sent you my phone number yet? I will be in the Tavern from about 1pm ish with your tickets....... Rick
I would disagree with that. He has bought a fair few flops and for quite a bit of money. However, that is another debate, one that has probably been done repeatedly and it will obviously turn nasty... So I'll leave it for others. Wenger's record with younger players is rather impressive though. Although I refuse to give him any credit for finding Fabregas and his development. Some Arsenal fans would lead you to believe that Cesc is Wenger's son. Good steal though!
I think you are reluctant to accept that Wenger is a good manager, and in the scheme of things he is excellent at spotting and naturing talent,but what has made Arsenals story a little bit intriguing is that with his vast knowledge of players he did what other premiership clubs were not doing well or not succeeding, in bringing young talent from outside the Isles,note clubsin the continent have been doing this for years,clubs like Torino and Ajax really come to mind yet clubs were not succeeding in the UK at doing the same thing,now this really makes a good strory in the press especially cause of that element of surprise especially with the press,just wait and see how we will know details of Van pierse after that goal. As far as sir Alex is concerned he is equally as good as Wenger,case in point Beckham vs keith Gillespie,if there was anyone who I thought would be equally as successfull was Keith,I remember him scoring the second goal against Newcastle,yet he gets shipped to Newcastle for Andy Cole,had he stayed under Sir Alex I think we would all know who he is dating right now,you being from Aberdeen at least you know what kind of magic he can work. but as far as Wenger taking the credit for Cesc,he deserves it more than the Folks at Barcelona,just like with Pires at Metz he saw what others didn't,just ask George Weah he dedicated his world player of the year to AW.I bet you Xavi's success at Barcelona right now is being attributed to Rijkaard more than anything else just like Christiano Ronaldos is to Sir Alex,with Cesc the thing is at 17 not much was known about him,no price tag,yet he fills his role like he was always there,that element of surprise is what makes his story hyped.
Not exactly. Barca knew how good he was and also knew what a talent he would make in the future. The thing is we did steal him as Wengers scouting system (which is one of the best in the world) also knew what a talent he is. The fact that the media don't often mention is that Arsenal were still owed lots of money from the Overmars/Petit deal. The Barca "complaints and threats" were all staged. The money was written off (about 4 Milllion odd I think) in return for Cesc. A complete steal in my opinion, but Teso is correct - the development of the player is because of Barca this time not Arsenal.
I didn't realise that Arsenal had to write off 4 mill pounds from the Overmars/Petit deal. What I do know is that Wenger could see that those 2 players were going nowhere for Arsenal and had to be shipped, meanwhile Barca, as so may other Spanish clubs, probably payed too much. Interesting story, Rick.
Its only fair that the english get to rave about their top league, i mean some Americans think the MLS is a great league and comparable to the EPL! i don't even know what emoticon to use for that...
In my own personal experiences yelling at your players will get you nothing. I'm going to be rash and asume that you are correct. Anyone remeber Patty when he was younger! Man he was a BEAST. Its my opinion that Arsene is more a fatherly manager, using the strap less to get the desired effect. Ofcourse this won't work on every player, but it seems to be working. Like that player on Blackburn, who was previously a youth for arsenal(had some sort of anger management problem?) My grandfather tells me stories about pre-AW era, like the 80's and boy do they make me shudder...
I can't imagine AW shouting at his boys, but I do wonder what he says to them when they have been in the wrong, eg Viera kicking out at Rude Van Horseface last year to name just one example.
Probably something along the lines of.... "Pat, if your going to get bloody sent off for kicking, don't miss the sh1t, make sure you get a good one and cripple the diving cheat" Just a guess........