Argentina : World cup 2018 Russia discussion

Macedonia? They have more linguistic relations with Bulgarians. In last 2 decades they forge that they are Greeks. Macedonia is a Greek region in geographical sense, but Slavs came later there and took over one part.

Slovenes and Macedonians have much different languages than Croats, Bosnia-Herzegovians, Serbs and Montenegrins.

Language in Bosnia-Herzegovina is a sort of mix between Serbian and Croatian. Eastern and Northern is Serbian part. Western part is mostly Croatian.

Montenegrin is similar to Croatian, but they use Cyrillic script just like Serbs and Macedonians.

Only Croats, Slovenes, Bosnians-Herzegovians use Latin script. Majority of Southern Croats are not Slavic people. Large part of Slovenes have Austrian-German origins.

Imagine that I say that Uruguay is a part of Argentina, just because of similar flags, large Italian community. In fact, Argentina doesn't want to win in Montevideo.

So if you meet Kosovo sometimes and win 6-0, you will say - similar to Croatia? They are Albanians, even more different in language. Kosovo was also a part of Yugoslavia.

Yugoslavia was a project, something like Austro-Hungarian Empire and today European Union.

Imagine that we say that people of Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Faroe Islands are all the same.

 

It was 3-1. Croatia lost energy, it's harder to compete with Aztecas. But against mostly European Argentina, it will be much easier.

 

The key thing is that Croatia doesn't include Yugoslavia national football team as their own success. In every Yugoslav team, through history, every ethnic group had their players. Majority of footballers were Croats and Serbs, with lesser amount Bosnia-Herzegovina Muslims, Slovenes, Macedonians and Montenegrins.
But there were many Croats of Bosnia and Herzegovina, same as Serbs of Bosnia and Herzegovina. When Montenegro became independent, many people of Montenegro kept Serbian identity. For example, some footballers: Predrag Mijatovic is ethnic Montenegrin, but he is a Serb by feeling. Savicevic is also Montenegrin, but Montenegrin with feeling also.

Mirko Vucinic likes Serbian identity, even though he is ethnic Montenegrin. Serbia and Montenegro are the closest because of religion.
Coastal Montenegro has Croatian influence, Roman Catholic churches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotor_Cathedral

Football is a moment, I agree. But there are some traditions. Croatia will always have problems with Mexico...Brazil, either with referee or with weak playing.

World Cup 1990 Yugoslav team was combined with all possible ethnic groups.

The coach Ivica Osim is of Slovene-German heritage and Polish-Czech heritage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivica_Osim

Connection of him and Croatia makes no sense. Osim married Bosnian Muslim woman and gave to his children Bosnian Muslim names. That's why no one embraces Yugoslavia as its own success. Common heritage, they depended on talent, some periods were weak. The fact in which Yugoslavia was two times 2nd, three times 4th, three times 5th, demonstrates their weaker character in key moments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia_national_football_team

Clubs had different policy, you could not leave the club and leave abroad before 28th year. Today, they leave in their 15,16th year often and they don't achieve anything. That's why Yugoslavia was consistent, all players from 3,4 major clubs, they knew each other.

According to Transfermarkt, many Argentines have dual citizenship. Often Italian.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/club-atletico-river-plate/startseite/verein/209/saison_id/2017

https://www.transfermarkt.com/club-atletico-boca-juniors/startseite/verein/189/saison_id/2017

Many of them never played in Italy.

Those better ones played in Italy: Batistuta, Zanetti, Sensini.

There were players who played for both countries, earlier in history. They don't visit country of their origins, because it's too far. But they like to play in Italy, if they have a chance: Cavani, Forlan (URU), Camoranesi...etc.

Lionel Messi and Bojan Krkic Perez are cousins through that Perez surname, they both played in the same club, Barcelona.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/span...as-lionel-messi-romas-bojan-krkic-are-distant

Plenty of Croats in Argentina share their ties in Croatian media. For example, your tennis coach Daniel Orsanic. It was very emotional for him, final of Davis Cup played in Croatia.

You don't feel your Italian-Spanish heritage, because Argentina has democratic rights, people were accepted from many countries, so that they can all build Argentina - together. Some people came earlier, some later. Giant melting pot of 43 millions of people. Many famous Argentines share their origins in public. Obviously for them this is important.

Tu eres europeo geneticamente, no lo se porque dices algo a si.

Imagine that I leave in China now. Will I be Chinese after? Yes, through citizenship maybe. Argentina was created with Spanish-Italian heritage. That's why you are good in football, basketball, tennis. Spain and Italy is great in all three sports, especially Spain in tennis. You even play on the same surface just like Spanish tennis players. Del Potro is also Spanish-Italian.

You have Kranevitter now. Maybe not that good like Kempes, Clausen, Killer or Houseman, but this could be enough for your third title.

Heinze has a nickname El Gringo. I wonder why. He holds both nationalities: German (father) and Italian (mother). The ball was not lost for him.

Again Italian GK - Ricardo La Volpe.

Defenders: Pagnanini, Pasarella, Tarantini. Someone who doesn't know, he would say...another Juventus, Milan team members.

GK Fillol was for sure Figliol or Figlioli.

I think that you need to create one nice mosaic of Spanish, Italian, German combination. With a slight touch of Aboriginal sense, something like with Maradona, Riquelme and Tevez.

Di Maria has both: Italian and Aboriginal. You need Italian goalkeeper and defenders, no other option. History showed that Argentina gets the best results with Italians in the last line.

Argentina had much more Spanish attackers, like Crespo, Lopez, Aimar (CAM).

If I am wrong, why does Argentina have so many defenders and goalkeepers with Italian surnames?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Abbondanzieri

In central part, there is always a mix. Italians often keep MF positions.

Interesting, Argentina doesn't have players of Portuguese, Swedish, Dutch, Czech, Russian players, although they also came in Argentina.

Few French, German, Polish.

Duscher has Austrian passport, he never played in Austria. Very energetic player of Deportivo La Coruna. He injured David Beckham once severely.

Esnaider (Schneider) was a good player...especially in Juventus, Real Madrid.

Similar thing is in Europe, many players have origins from other European or African or Caribbean countries.

Griezmann - German-Portuguese, no connection with France, but he plays for them.

This one left in Argentina in 1882 year, but he is well respected in Croatia, his native country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vucetich

 

So...











...which other team other than ourselves do we want to classify?

 

Perú, Colombia

 

From our own group, i meant!

Maybe Iceland? The romantic underdogs story and all that... Also, Björk.

Croatia have great players and besides their shirt is awesome...

Nigeria, since they're already like old friends, or perhaps unavoidable ones...

I think i'd go with Croatia.

 

Bjork and Sigur Ros!!

I like Iceland, would love them to qualify (as long as we qualify first, of course)

 

But Mexico has beaten Croatia twice this century in matches that counted.

 

But Mexico has beaten Croatia twice this century in matches that counted.

 

Of course Argentines, and South Americans, have a strong connection to Spain and Italy, two great countries of historical importance. What Argentines and South Americans don't have is any kind of connection to an irrelevant nation like Croatia.

Typical loser mentality that I find in most Slavs, trying to associate themselves to the success of others.

Don't you have village to ethnically cleanse somewhere?

FVCK OFF

 

Nigeria for me.

The Croatian jersey looks like tablecloths, the ones at a truck stop diners.

 

If someone in South America has Croatian origins, he is well connected with his country. Even your president Nestor Kirchner Ostoic was Croatian, visited Croatia, spoken in Croatian media.

Some Croats from Argentina came to live in Croatia, even though their grandparents were born in Argentina.

This player Bojan Krkic said this in media. Messi and Krkic both visited this place in SPAIN where this ancestor lived. Nothing to do with any other country, only Spain. Because mother of Krkic is Spanish. For them, this was an interesting face that they played in the same club. Of course, Krkic is much weaker, no one compares them at all.

Similar thing was with Brazilian Cicinho de Cezare and Camoranesi, whose ancestors came from the same Italian village, not even city. Italian media discovered this, while they both played. Just saying, people have sentiments, no matter where they were born, what social class they have. Words like me la chupen los europeos are just some strange shadow in their minds.
Messi, Camoranesi have millions, but they still visited some small village, where their family expedition started.

Messi is even born in Giuseppe Garibaldi - Italian hospital in Argentina. Obviously his parents know much more than you.

Lets not open the Dirty War and mention some guys who adored non-democratic values. I don't know which country was never present in any war.

Some South American countries have close connections with Croatia, just because of their people who came there to live: Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Peru, Bolivia, Sao Paulo in Brazil. Connections with Venezuela, Ecuador, Paraguay are much smaller, because of small percent.

One of first better goalkeepers in Argentina was a Croat. Also, political, cultural, social influence is for sure not irrelevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Yustrich

 

Italian restaurants invented these tablecloths. They are really well accepted in gastronomy. Probably you know this from somewhere: abuelo, abuela.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/144044888051899321/

Diego Simeone has a son and his name is Giovanni. Born in Madrid, he could be Juan easy over there, but Simeone - Baldini took Italian version for some reason. He even plays in Italy. His brothers are Gianluca and Giuliano.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Simeone

I don't understand such percent of negativity directed against Europe.

 

I mentioned this already. Same with the words that Croatia can't play great with Mexico, Ecuador, Brazil, because their players have much more of Aboriginal and African origins. They are much faster with body strength.

I am sure that Croatia would have hard moments against Colombia, Chile, Paraguay (Guarani). Only Venezuela, Bolivia and Peru seem much more weaker at this moment. Who knows what could happen against Costa Rica and their bunker mostly, but they resist very well. Also, with influx of Central American Aboriginal community, just like Mexico.

That's why I said that Croatia could be much happier with Argentina or Uruguay, because they are much easier to handle, players are mostly of European origins, much slower, they are not so fast.

Just observe Arevalo Rios and Forlan. Rios can run through entire match. Same as Alvaro Pereira, even Edinson Cavani has partial Aboriginal origins. Much better choice is for sure Higuain, than Di Maria, Cavani, Aguero, Tevez who obviously have partial or entire Aboriginal origins.

That's why I connected some aspects. If Croatia in Europe has solid history with Spain and Italy, we can expect the same from players from Italy and Spain, no matter where they play.

I am in much bigger fear of Ever Banega, Enzo Perez, Leandro Paredes than from Kranevitter, Perotti, Giovani Lo Celso (another Italian).

That's why Argentines adapt well in Italian Serie A. Aboriginal players like Aguero, Tevez played in England. Others rather pick Italy or Spain. Javier Pastore played in Italy excellent, because he is from Torino through origins, but in PSG he has problems. Different type of opponents, football is much more faster, physical accent.

Forlan was terrible in England, but great in Spanish and Italian league.

Some aspects of players are pretty evident. Similar is with Spanish and Italian players who have much harder moments in English league.

That's why I don't like to see opponents like Mexico, Colombia, Chile, Paraguay, Brazil, maybe Peru, Costa Rica...even though Costa Rica had Croatian president and the best footballer of all time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Orlich_Bolmarcich

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Meza_Ivancovich

José Rafael Meza Ivancovich es considerado, junto con Alejandro Morera Soto, como el jugador más grande de la historia del fútbol costarricense.

Why would Croatian radio stations exist in South America? If no one cares about Europe. Who listens this? I guess no one.



Rosario



Croatian Independence Day in Argentina...third, fourth generation probably. Sounds irrelevant and without any ties.

 

A Nigerian here...
I really love Argentina and your football but I’m sick of the sight of you at tournaments!! WtF!!
Can you guys let us win one for a change? It’s no good walloping you in friendlies only for you to beat us by narrow margins (2-1, 1-0, 1-0, 3-2) at the big dance.
Give us a break guys!

 

Maybe in 2022

 

What a strange string of posts. I'm somewhat fascinated but also extremely weirded out with the obsession over tracing everyone's ethnicities and associating it with abilities on the pitch in some eugenic type fashion. I prefer to see players as individuals in the end. Countries may have a style but I think it's mostly because how the coaching knowledge is passed down and how players are developed, not their genes. The Dos Santos play like Mexicans, not Brazilians. Ozil plays like a German, not a Turk, etc.

 

With Croatia it's complicated as there is many problems with the federation and fans. Against Spain Croatia played without Modric and won against the best Spanish team. Croatia always seems to struggle in towards the middle of qualifiers. This was the case in 1998 as well. It's a mentality thing with Balkan nations as they take the easy approach against less opponents. There is plenty go quality in this team. Excellent midfield with good strikers and wingers. Defense is definitely the weakness along with mental capacity in big games in tournaments as this generation has always failed when it counts. Lost to Turkey in pk's in 2008 euros and lost to a Portugal team euro2016 in extatime as they showed them to much respect even though they were playing excellent football up to then. First game against Nigeria will be key. You guys should beat Iceland easy if you press them hard. They have very little quality. Got very lucky they beat Croatia in Iceland.

 

It's maybe strange or weird, but we see the pattern.

Player of Uruguay Coates plays in England. He has Scottish origins. He stood very well over there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastián_Coates

I always notice that Argentina and Uruguay have the best defenders if we observe only Central and South America.
All others have much better central and attacking part than their defensive part.

Brazil has one of the best GK players now, Allison Becker (German).

I see all players as individuals with their own talent. I think that many of them brought football from their own countries in Argentina. Football can't be created out of nothing.

Nicolas Burdisso - one of underrated defenders, but very talented. Same as Hugo Campagnaro. Campagnaro was in plans for Italy also. Fabricio Coloccini, Gabriel Milito, Mauricio Pellegrino, Mauricio Pocchetino, Facundo Roncaglia, Lionel Scaloni were often in 2nd plan, but their club performance was always very high. They are all defenders, all of them have Italian surnames. Same as much famous Mascherano and Javier Zanetti. Probably the best RB player in the last 30 years.

Older brother Dos Santos played like a Brazilian in Barcelona at least, same as Brazilian Eduardo da Silva, who played for Croatia. He lived in Croatia since his 13th year maybe. Croatia has different football strategy, their strategy was 3-5-2 for a longer time.

When I remember Colombian Ivan Ramiro Cordoba - Colombia. His height was really low, but his jumping altitude was very high. Europeans don't jump like that. For sure not Godin, Lugano, Mascherano...Uruguay and Argentina have that La Plata similar strategy.

Paraguay exhausts every opponent, often frustrating to play with them.

When I see Colombian players, crossings, speed, technique. For example Juan Cuadrado. He runs, covers everything through entire match.

Pacific countries of South America are much more active than those from Atlantic side, beside Brazil, because they have strong influx of different groups. Just remember Cafu, Roberto Carlos, miles and miles on their sides.

When I run 100-200 meters of fast sprint I get tired. My weakness becomes visible, even though I make sports activities. But I would be weak as an professional footballer. But with Aboriginal, African heritage, I would be pretty solid footballer. Additional energy, strength, faster recovery. Can any European win on 100 meters of sprint in athletics? Probably never.

I remembered one duel of Brazilian Adriano and Croatian Niko Kovac. In some ordinary struggle, Niko Kovac went injured. Pain in his stomach, ribs, hips, hard to tell. But Adriano squeezed him severely. Of course, he doesn't have motivation, discipline, but when he took the ball in Inter, you could only watch that.

Ozil doesn't have discipline. He is talented, but he gave up from great performance after he came in Real Madrid. Turks have some talented players, but their problem is discipline, habit of training.

Many Turkish NT players were born in Germany, but no advantage for Turkey.

Also, Shaqiri from Switzerland, he plays some Balkan variation of football, he is not cold, focused, he makes gestures often. He knows to score attractive goals. That's why Switzerland is a interesting team. Children of immigrants, with Swiss Germans in defence, like Lichtsteiner, Schar, Lang and Sommer, Hitz as GK's. We will never know too much about them, but they will all be reliable. For sure, they will go in the knock out stage.

Claudio Reyna and Pablo Mastroeni played like Argentines in my opinion. Maybe they were not world class players, but it was different from Landon Donovan, Brian McBride etc.

 

This is negative mentality. Not good guys. You need to give your best and try to win. My mentality is winning mentality. Give the best, never give up. With good performance, ability and desire everything can happen. I am sure that Sampaoli has its own fears, especially from Argentine media and fans. He is not relaxed. Unknown Iceland for him, complicated Croatia, surprises of Nigerian team. Many teams give too much of advantage before the match, they lose before they stand on the field.