PBP: Argentina Vs Brazil - Super classico -October 11 2014

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by jimmi_moh, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. jimmi_moh

    jimmi_moh Member+

    Mar 30, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Miss u sabella... :(

    Under sabella , on his worst day , he would have made the match draw.
     
  2. Kevin_405

    Kevin_405 Member

    Jul 30, 2012
    I just hope u also counted the argentina fouls in the 2nd half. Soccer in general is a fouling game. Most teams take tactical fouls to avoid giving up field positions, in this gamethere we no malicious and unwarrented fouls. Both teams were doing the same so i dont know what you r complaining about
     
  3. HollywoodHayat

    HollywoodHayat Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    After the WC there were a couple of players i hoped to never see put on a NT jersey. Unfortunately, they still do undeservingly.

    If Tata wants to win anything this team has proven since 2010 that they cant play with 1 DM and some players dont mesh together. Hopefully he realizes that and playing a high backline with two guys that cant run made Neymar look like Maradona. Actually even Willian looked like Maradona. Anyways not a bad game to see where we stand and theres a lot of work to be done defensively and in midfield.

    Brazil didnt look anything special but Dunga knows how to grind out a game and Argentina need to stop passing the ball to Messi whenever hes available and instead maybe try to do things and use him as a decoy. Also 5 ball hogs with no pass first player in midfield and offense wont cut it
     
    johnbarley2 repped this.
  4. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Woke up at 7, right when the game was ending.. Glad I didn't have to go through that suffering.

    Don't know what to say at this point.. Just like you guys I want to start seeing changes.. Tevez finally deserves a shot after our forwards ******** up (from what you guys are saying) for what seems to be the 180th game in a row. It seems having Palacio in the locker room for so long rubbed off on them.

    Iturbe should be there too..

    Musacchio and Kranevitter, two who ended up missing these friendlies due to injuries, could also work wonders to the team. Musacchio, along with Garay, to fix the defense, and Krane for a more fluid passing game in midfield.

    Glad to hear Tucu Pereyra did good though. The guy has worked his way up with nothing being handed to him, unlike other players.
     
    SupaMario repped this.
  5. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well, Scolari won all the friendly tour for few years so this result cant be taken for granted. We beat WC at their home few weeks ago but we havent beat that team in last 3 WC.
     
  6. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Lets be fair though, this is only Tata second game in charge and he has yet to manage the team in competitive match. Sabella's built his team for 3 years leading to the WC with 40+ games in total.[/QUOTE]
     
  7. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I'd like to take out Messi sometimes and see how the team play and in fact we've seen that against Germany last month and we look way better without having to built the attack from him over and over. New faces upfront alse needed. We've been playing with these lot for more than half decade so its time to bring new talent especially in friendly fixtures.

    I agree that Pereyra was great and look determined since the beginning in contrary to Messi. I really think Messi and Neymar both often act like primadonas and asking for the ref to give them fouls all the time.

    You look at Di Maria misschances today, I'd bet he's looking for Messi on his right while he should have shoot it easily.
     
  8. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #108 SupaMario, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
    Didn't catch the game, which I am glad I didn't. I am not overly surprised here, I saw that defense and I knew they would allow a goal or two. Far too slow, it's really bad to have that team there. I think that entire back line needs to get gutted. I know Negro will be back, and he's a rock for the team. Musacchio will help as well. Zabaleta is already slow, and in 4 years time, he'll be much slower. Start looking for alternatives. You can not have a group of defenders that look like they're stuck in cement.

    As for the attack, and it seems like the attack faltered once again. I do not know if it's everybody is waiting for Messi to do something or what, but the team needs to learn to play together and not through a single player. Those days are behind us, and the sport. And speaking of Messi, reading the comments here and other places, it appears he didn't give a flying ####. The trend continues, say what you want about Tevez and his lack of goal scoring, but the man ran his ass off. Maybe, it is time to call him back, he fits in Martino's plan. It's time to start dropping players from the attack, I know it's a drastic move, but it needs to be done early. Just like Tevez after the Copa, time for heads to roll and soon.

    I ain't even mad, Tigre is on fire.
     
  9. aerez

    aerez Member

    Jul 8, 2006
    Didn't even watch the game. Could care less. Wake me up when they start taking things seriously.
     
  10. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    While we did get exposed few times on counter, only Neymar pace managed to cost us problem. Both goal conceided has nothing to do with defenders being too slow though. They both came from aerial attack which we failed to deal with.
     
  11. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    Well, I don't trust martino. Thought we were porous against Germany and here as well.

    AFA is stupid to change managers at the end of the WC. Now we have to learn a new system with only a handful of friendlies before CA.

    Sabella fixed two things that were hurting us for a long time: giving up counterattacks and defending set pieces. Seems we are back to the pre-sabella era.

    Personnel-wise, Federico has to go. He only made the WC cause of continuity and had to dramatically be dropped in the middle of the tournament. He simply makes too many mistakes. Demichelis did great in his role as an emergency sub but he's not going to be our cb for another tournament. The only thing we should be doing is finding garay's complement and have them develop a partnership. But mainly what we saw from our back four was a lack of collective discipline.

    Sabella's also had our offense playing more direct. We are back to hesitating and overplaying. Players deferring to a less dynamic Messi is one of the reasons. The other is that we have too many dribblers and not enough players with movement (higuain being the exception but his form is bad and his confidence in big matches probably forever ruined). Perreyra had a good individual match but he's not what we need. Reminds me why Sabella was so committed to a half-injured, way out of form gago.
     
  12. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yeah, but if Neymar wasn't such an idiot in front of the goal he would have scored 2 goals yesterday from those opportunities. Your back line is definitely a problem if it doesn't have the protection from the midfield like it did in the WC. It's something Tata will have to deal with.
     
  13. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Better to change right after a WC instead than a year or two before one. Plus, was Sabella fired or did he want to go ?
     
  14. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    I think he left cause he was pressured to leave.

    After one of our best qualifying campaigns (against the very teams we will face in CA) and WC finals, it's best to not change the system when you have the second most important tournament a year away. There is not enough time to arrange a new system. Furthermore, it's stupid to consider the CA as a warmup for the next WC. They are 3 years apart. Too much will have changed by then. And you have more than enough Wcq and friendlies to develop your WC squad.
     
  15. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That's a fair point. Specially since Argentina hasn't won any title in a long time (not trash talking). Therefore the CA is pretty important.
     
  16. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    But we have tons of chances throughout this game, Messi himself has 2-3 freekicks plus 1 penalty and achieve nothing from it. Also, all his shots were poor and directed straight to the goalkeeper unlike his 4 goals in previous 2 games against Brazil.

    Meanwhile Di Maria & Aguero keep blasting the ball to the sky. Di Maria chance in second half, he was even closer to the goal than Neymar yet he waited forever and ended doing nothing with it. You cant win tournament by playing this way and its not entirely Tata's fault even though its only his second game and experiment was expected. The players themselves has to delivers like they did constantly when switching to club jersey. Seriously, I cant stand Aguero these days, it seems that everytime he received a good pass he always slip and losing his balance for no reason.

    To be honest, with the way Brazil and Argentina played yesterday, I could see Colombia or Chile causing an upset in next year tourney. The recent WC shows how strong the other South american team right now, Mexico, Colombia, Chile and off course Uruguay , we might not see Argentina vs Brazil final at all.
     
  17. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I was just commenting on Argentina's back line. Obviously we have our own problems. Dunga will try to make the team compact and I don't see him trying a possession based game. You guys really dominated the first 20 minutes and played well. Had you scored, we would definitely be in trouble. After that it seems like most of your players got down on themselves. It's early for both teams in the rebuilding process. We'll have to see how each team progresses. A friendly in freaking China can't be taken that seriously.

    Aguero is a mystery to me too. At Man City he is so good in that final third but for Argentina he just stinks.

    Colombia will definitely be one of the favorites if not the favorite. Chile is obviously playing at home and that will give them an extra bump. I could see them beating Brazil and Argentina as well and it won't be that much of a surprise (or upset) to be honest.
     
    locoxriver repped this.
  18. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #118 Rattlehead, Oct 12, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2014
    There's a reason why Fede was dropped in middle of WC, remember that we conceided 3 goals at group stage which not a good stats at all, and our defence improve dramatically at knockout stage when he wasnt playing anymore. Our best CB was clearly Garay but he wasnt playing for whatever reason. Hopefully its only because Tata experimenting not personal preference.

    Dont forget Rojo has been poor since the WC ended. He's just decent at United and never look as energetic as he did throughout the WC where he constantly running up and down for 120 minutes.

    One thing that Tata better noted is that we shouldnt build our attack on one player because it would be a suicide! Messi will skip 2 players and then the third guy will pulled him down and our attack stop right there!

    This way of playing also wasted the talent of player like Lamela because his presence on the field is only to pass the ball to Messi or returning Messi's pass to Messi again. Lamela is capable of scoring and setting up a goal but he ended up being only a passanger on the team. No wonder we attacked better against Germany last time around because it;s not centered on Messi. Di Maria popped up on the right, left and center while Messi in NT always receives the ball here...

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Well, Colombia and Chile only has 1 thropy combined so no matter how the story is twisted, it would be seen as an upset if they beat Argentina and Brazil.
     
  20. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That's fine. I am just looking at it in the context of the their current performances.
     
  21. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It's just one game, not trusting Martino after a friendly is not the way to go. How much did you trust Sabella after losing to Venezuela and drawing at home vs Bolivia? There will be plenty of time to make rash judgements, especially with a tournament coming up.
     
    Arg10 and locoxriver repped this.
  22. Arg10

    Arg10 Member

    Sep 11, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Still early days but the dead weight in the team is there to see. Fernandez, Demichelis (who had a good WC but it's time to move on), Aguero and Higuain should not start for us anymore. Not saying drop them but try alternatives. Those asking for Tevez, he's a short term solution (Copa America) for a long term problem.

    Lamela looked out of his element. Really a bad match from him. He looked like Pastore from a few years ago. Bad passing and trying tricks when not necessary.

    Messi and Di Maria, who started the match well, looked like they didn't want to be there in the second half and not their fault. Flying to Beijing for a money match. Pereyra was probably our best player out there. Pastore looked pretty good too once he came on as a substitute.

    Like Mario said, it's just one game but Martino has some work to do and some decisions (Aguero, Higuain).
     
    SupaMario repped this.
  23. HollywoodHayat

    HollywoodHayat Member+

    Feb 11, 2013

    R u sure u didnt watch the match? U just said everything that happened lol

    I didnt like how he lined up his team knowing Dungas ultra defensive approach. As good as Pereyra was he and Lamela are not needed as starters for this team to click. We lose balance with so many offensive options and ball hogs. Martino needed a Biglia replacement not another playmaker in midfield and if he wanted to replace Perez he should have thought about someone with less dribbling and more pressing/passing in midfield.

    Just my 2 cents but you're right its too early to judge based on a friendly and hopefully he corrects his mistakes and reads his opponents not force his style
     
  24. HollywoodHayat

    HollywoodHayat Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Btw the only exclusion i was surprised to see wasnt Tevez but it was Cartabia who in my opinion is exactly what were lacking in midfield right now and is on fire with Cordoba. Hopefully Spain dont cap him as Del Bosque sees him as Xavi's replacement
     
  25. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I predicted errors will happen with that defensive lineup in the first page. I also predicted that attacking lineup was going to play in the hands of Brasil. They like to disrupt a flow, it's been like that for sometime for Brasil. Doesn't matter who the manager is. If our players didn't put their chances away, that's that.I saw the goals on YouTube, and Romero could've saved the first goal. Saw Messi's PK, it was terrible, he was probably just hoping the GK would jump the opposite way, instead of kicking a PK that could not be saved. Similar to one he took vs Real Madrid last season.
     

Share This Page