Argentina v Peru, WCQ, 10-5-2017

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by SupaMario, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. HollywoodHayat

    HollywoodHayat Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Also, im not a Boca fan but say what you want about Gago, the guy tore his cruciate ligament, told the trainers to wrap his leg, then gor up and tried to continue the match. Do you realize how dangerous it is to continue with a torn cruciate ligament? He could have lost a leg for his country and that alone is probably the greatest act of mental toughness I have seen in a very long time. What a warrior!
     
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  2. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess if he thought Peru would be easier he could win that with worse players and save the better ones for the tougher game. But considering we needed at least one win regardless..
     
  3. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I am all but assured that a draw in Quito will eliminate Argentina. Only one option, to win.

    Diego Maradona faced a similar situation when playing against England at WC86, a game that he would not be excused for losing. Let's see if Messi has that transcendental greatness in him.
     
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  4. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    A better analogy would be when Argentina were losing 2-1 against Peru in the final qualifier for World Cup 1986 with 9 minutes remaining, a result that would have prevented Arg from even reaching the WC.

    And then Passarelli and Gareca bailed Maradona out for the equalizer.

    Maradona got an average rating of 5 that game, and was panned by the Arg media for an year.

    We Arg fans need to understand that it is a team game; one person is never responsible for either victory or defeat.

    We are the only ones who keep on doing this.
     
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  5. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Icardi almost scored 3 times in first half against Venezuela, 2 which were well saved by the GK. The equalizer also came from his preasure. In this case, you could say the player wasnt scoring because of bad luck. In comparison,
    To be fair, Maradona assisted the first goal on that game after beating few defenders and put a perfect cross from lelf flank. One of his trademark assist & ability which Messi doesnt possess.
     
  6. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    That's not brave, that's stupid. I am pretty sure if he knows he could lose a leg, he'd stop right away.
     
  7. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    #207 afar, Oct 6, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
    Now if we are talking about beating defenders and assisting, Messi laid on the plate 4 one-on-one situations for his teammates yesterday, 3 of them that were perhaps 6 feet from the goal --- and Benedetto, Papu, and Rigoni all missed.

    If even one of them had scored, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

    That has been a common theme throughout Messi's Argentina career.

    But that is why I say.....the whole team wins, and the whole team loses. Sure, as the star player, you have an extra responsibility...but if you are creating that many opportunities against a bunkering team, then surely you are fulfilling that responsibility.

    Also, we would never have won the WC in 86 without Maradona, but Burruchaga, Luis Enrique, Olarticochea, Valdano, etc. all were way better than anything Messi has ever had in his teammates, except for Mascherano.
     
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  8. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Which is basically why we wanted to kick out Higuain from the team since 2014 final. Messi teammates cant finish a good pass to save their life. Argentina won titles back then because Kempes, Burruchaga, Valdano and Batigol scores in the finals.

    However none of Maradona teammates are remotely close to the talent that Messi has around him. The problem is his teammates has mama boy mentallity. Messi teammates are mostly superstars in their respetcive clubs. Mascherano, Tevez, Higuain, Aguero, Di Maria, Banega, Lavezzi, etc.
     
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  9. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    Check out @LucioTavoloni’s Tweet:


    Messi trying one-two with Argentina, versus Messi trying one-two in Barcelona.

    Very nice example of what goes on with us. Only Dybala is capable of playing one-two's with Messi for us.
     
  10. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Messi , Di Maria, Aguero, Pipita and even Lavezzi did that throughout Sabella's time. Just look at how we destroyed many teams scoring 3-5 goals constantly. They struggled since WC semifinal and final because of fatigue. Di Maria having to play 120 minutes of CL finals and ultimately won them the title while Messi, Kun and Higuain has been injured prior to the WC.

    The front 4 used to clicked well but it seems to be working only in Sabella system where we let opponent to have the ball and hit them with fast counter.
     
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  11. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    Being incompatible with dybala is bullshit anyway. They combined well together and best chances came from. Them. That's fact.

    I can't get over how terrible papu was. That 1v1 chance he had was so simple and he could have also pulled the ball back to messi. He made the wrong play every time.

    I believe sampaolis formation and tactics were decent. His player selection and subs are horrible.
     
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  12. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    That is what I thought the minute Papu got the ball. All Papu had to do was to look up and passed it back to Messi for a simple tap in. There are countless examples of where Neymar or Pedro would pass it back to Messi for a simple finish at Barcelona.

    But fine, even if he didn't spot Messi's run, that was almost as clean an opportunity you can get.

    Benedetto's header at the end of the first half was also extremely easy...it seemed easier to hit the target than miss.
     
  13. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Benedetto shoudlnt be discussed, he's not good enough for NT to begin with, simply as that. Zanetti just said in interview that Icardi always created the danger everytime he made the run and he was right , because that's what happened against Venezuela. Just give him full minutes in next game and I have confident he will score this time or at least involve in the scoring. He only have 2 proper caps and we only created once chance for him against Uruguay but he was already looking dangerous against Venezuela which is a good sign.
     
  14. HollywoodHayat

    HollywoodHayat Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    True. I remember back in 2010 when we all said Aguero was incompatible with Messi. Sabella comes in and implements a system that turned them into the fantastic four.

    I think Sampaoli shoulders the blame. A system that is built to press required pacy players that can cover ground when the ball is lost. Neither Banega or Biglia have enough pace to start in this system. Also, im a fan of Mercado but we need an attacking RB to complement the attack specially in a must win situation. Guess what? Sampaoli did not pick another RB and were stuck with Mercado vs Ecuador. It just feels like a mess and I thought Sampaoli knew who fit his system but i guess i was wrong!
     
  15. HollywoodHayat

    HollywoodHayat Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    One thing about Benedetto though, hes really good at breaking offside traps and I think that and his well timed cuts got him selected
     
  16. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Icardi did that constantly and did it better than him.
     
  17. Leon12

    Leon12 Member+

    Jan 5, 2006
    Man of the world
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Maths was never my strong point, but given thst Paraguay are on 24 points and a win in their final game would put them on 27, how would we finish above them on 25 points if we lose to Ecuador????
     
  18. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Tuesday will take an eternity.
    Continue to read through the thread.
     
  19. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Bro, not giving any specific names, but someone has to get off Icardi's nuts... yes, I want to see him too, but every other post overhyping the guy as if he were the reincarnation of Batistuta. Last round when he got the chance to start two games, he didn't do what he had to do, so let's quit acting like hes our grand savior that's sooooo superior to all the other 9s
     
  20. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    People on here disliked Martino because we could only win against poor teams. Guess what? Under Tata we were joint 2nd in the table after matchday 6. Tata also lead us to two Copa America finals in two years.

    I'm not saying that Tata was a great coach, but sometimes you don't know how bad it can get until you have someone like Bauza.
     
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  21. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    He didn't get half the chances bendetto got. Icardi has been better than higuain in Serie a especially this season.
     
  22. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Like I said, I like Icardi too and want to see him get a fair shot, but lets tone it down a bit. Some users here make him seem like a combination of Ronaldo, Pele, and Batistuta, when the reality is he still has to prove himself
     
  23. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Icardi only play full minutes twice. Without him, there's no equalizer against Venezuela and we would be mathematically couldnt qualify automatically.
     
  24. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Very different circumstances as Argentina wouldn't have been eliminated with a loss, the second and third place teams of that qualifier group would go to a final four style playoff with Paraguay and Chile.
     
  25. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    I don't know how much more Messi could have assisted his fellow attackers vs peru

    He put benedetto in twice, papu and rigoni once each

    Sure he himself hit the post but still he was a menace
     

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