Then you know little about soccer. The players in Europe are very much superior to the MLS based players, for the most part. MLS is little above a second tier league and the only players the USA should consider from MLS are a few defenders and goalkeepers. I was the ineptitude of the fool we had in charge that has made the players from Europe look bad.
There are always a group of MLS players who I think deserve a match or two with our A team. Sometimes they move abroad. For example, Wiley and Aidan Morris have been on my list recently. The fact that they will soon be moving abroad doesn't immediately affect my assessment that they deserve a close look. There are others currently in MLS who I have advocated for and will continue to do so. DeJuan Jones, Diego Luna, Jalen Neal and Tim Tillman are four I've advocated for. I think Zimmerman and Miles Robinson fully deserve additional callups and starts. But I would not make a blanket statement that I'd rather have a team of MLS players. I think there are MLS players who have a contribution to make. And there are some very talented young players who are going to break through the next few years. Highlighted by Berchimas and Sullivan. But there are others. Some of them are going to break through to the senior team at very young ages. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. I don't think we should wait until they move abroad to integrate players with that kind of talent into the senior team.
I clicked expecting a nonsensical argument with minimal (if any) supporting facts or analysis, and the OP managed to underwhelm even those lowest of expectations. Congrats.
I don’t think it’s the European guys are overrated, but pretty much no one in the pool seems to have hit their best case scenario from what we thought they when all first started to break out in 2020 and 2021. Even Pulisic who during project restart was one of the best players in the EPL. He’s obviously still very good, but not quite that level. Really only Jedi really hit the best case of where you’d hope some of the guys would be by now. The other thing is we’re missing the generation in front of them which should be playing a role on the national team and isn’t.
The European players are more technical, that’s a standard requirement there generally. Even Jedi would be considered a technically superior player in MLS.
it can still be a good thread...the underwhelming OP notwithstanding the underlying topic is worth discussing i think it will be especially germane given some of the precocious talent coming through MLS
I will say had we played Walker Zimmerman an MLS player instead of CCV a European player I think we get a tie against Panama and are off to the quarterfinal (where we probably lose to Columbia).
A lot of people have read Money Ball or at least seen the movie. There's a trend of taking the lesson of the story that stats are the solution. But, the stats were just a tool the A's used. It was a great tool, but concentrating on the tool ignores the insight, which was that the evaluation models were bad. All the rules of thumb were wrong. How a player looked made no difference. Billy Beane was told that he was the dream, and he knew that the scouts were full of shit. And,this is important, everyone accepted the evaluation models they used - it was conventional wisdom. The OP question to me begs the question... What mistakes are we making with the evaluation model currently used? Is Bombito who plays in MLS today a worse defender than CCV who plays in Scotland? How does that change if Bambito takes his strong club season and Copa run into a European contract? How does that change if he becomes a solid starter in Europe a year from now? If it happens will it be because he has breathed the magic air of Europe? Or, will it be that he is a good player who finally got a break? Should we assume players in Europe are there because of superior talent? Or, should we question whether opportunities are equal to begin with and maybe give a break to the players who are making their way the hard way?
Walker had a long-term achilles injury that stretched from last season to the off-season to the early part of this season. He was deemed to need some additional time with his club. Part of the thinking was that it was more realistic to try to use him in the Olympics than Copa.
I saw the World Champion Argentina has a MLS player in their staring 11. I also today saw Uruguay has a MLS player coming off the bench and tied the game 2:2. So no matter you play in MLS or Europe, as long as you are a GOOD player and is best in the form in your position. You should play.
well, lets see- puli is playing wing at milan, yet i dont think hes as good as ronaldinho. so no. what about reyna sitting on forests bench- surely hes overrated, right?.i mean, harkes started for forest 30 years ago... nope. still better than any attacking midfielder we have by a country freaking mile. without playing. are you sure that proves what you think it does? so what are we really talking about here? what do "rating"s have to do with anything? does anyone think that since musah isnt seedorf he should move to shamrock rovers? i mean, we all see how ccv is treated for dominating usl + rangers level comp so what the hell do people want here? we (meaning our players) arent only young and inexperienced and growing when it comes to big upping gregg, you know. we have guys all over at a lot of levels. any given roster isnt more than 3-5 guys away from our best. no one thinks a manager is the only thing that separates us from from germany or spain. we have a very good pool, not great. but the idea that wes should take cincy up on their offer, that that would advance our level of play (to whatever degree one player can) is idiotic. its just dumb, i mean, bs has retconned pulis time at chelsea into a disaster. he won a freaking champions league. a champions league they wouldnt have been in if not for his play the year before. he scored in the semi-final. but injuries and idiocy mean inconsistent pt and somehow thats the whole story? so he moves to milan and is more key to their season than leao or hernandez...but its not 90s milan so lets pretend he might as well be the 14th overall/highest american goalscorer in mls. same difference, right? this board shits on malik tillman and insists we havent seen the last of jesus ferreira. the sky was falling because scally "had" to play- bs wannabe analysts insist hes a middling bund player g'bach wish some team would take on a free- and he was our best defender. this after a month of those same wannabe analysts around here saying weah was the only realistic option; now hes too stupid as a person to be in the team at all. so, overrated? no, i personally dont think they are. i dont think the vast majority of posters have any clue what theyre talking about even when its not just to support some convoluted narrative they care about far more than this team or its players anyways.
Are European-based players over-rated? No. I think most fans have a pretty good understanding of the talent level. There does seem to be the occasional fan who believes this US pool is Barcelona circa 2010 only being held back by the USSF and the USMNT staff. ...................but they're living in a delusion. The backlash from the fans after this Copa exit came about because the performance didn't meet expectations of the talent level. Most fans didn't expect us to win the damn thing. They expectation was that we'd make the knockout round, and then give either Colombia or Brazil a good test. Win or lose, we could walk out of that game with our heads held high if we played well. I do think the talent gap between the back half of this Copa roster and Liga MX/MLS players is over-rated. The talent gap between say................Lund and an MLS equivalent. Caleb Wiley or John Tolkin or somebody. What is the talent gap between Ethan Horvath and a Celentano or Schulte. I don't think there is one. Luca de la Torre and an MLS equivalent. Cameron Carter-Vickers or Mark McKenzie and an MLS equivalent. What we want is for these Liga MX/MLS players that are performing at the level to join their brethren in Europe. As Caleb Wiley is doing.
your brush is too broad. the only reason lund has been the lock backup lb is gregg (who had whatever his reasons were- i would guess vibes and hes happy just to sit there ready to hug somebody). no one is saying hes the guy cause hes in serie b. whos overrating him? and you cant equate mls to a second division using wiley-is-just-as-good-as-a-serie-b-player and turn around touting him as a soon-to-be chelsea player two sentences later. its. not. about. mls. vs. anything. i fully recognize that thats your que to insist you werent doing that...it might help if you didnt frame your entire point around exactly that. who is saying ccv and/or mckenzie are clearly over miles or zim? no one. what are you even saying? you just throw out as many non-factors as possible to create the illusion of sameness. no one is over- or underrating our sixth rb option vs our seventh rb option. and lost in that throw everything against the wall and see what sticks logic is aiden morris has been the best american midfielder in mls for a couple of years now (with only t tillman coming close the early part of this season) and hes going to boro. luca is a regular starter in la liga. sorry, man, but theres a gap there. if theres a conversation to be had its about good and bad situations. on either a micro- (wes being a clearly better player at juve than he was at schalke, but that not even mattering) or macro level; primarily loan army moves and our guys that keep hopping between pro/rel candidates (sarge being the poster boy there). is sarge overrated? is it as simple as colaship vs ligue 1 vs eredivise? who cares? have his choices and/or circumstance helped or hindered his development? cause thats what we are talking about. its not that reyna cant hack it at dortmund- he did at 18. its just a bad fit. his loan at forest is less than meaningless. substitute wes/juve/leeds. would it be a very good thing for everyone involved for gio to move to a fiorentina who would actually use him? obviously. is that the same as being "overrated" based on getting his break at a (hybrid) player flipping factory? what about wes to a sociedad? trying to shove everything into one streamlined rationale is useless. why would it matter if schulte is "only" an mls keeper when we all know hes going to be at stutgart is two years? and why does that matter if hes st paulis backup two years after that? make a list of of over-, under- and correctly-rated players if you want. but this thread, and the overall conversation on rated-ness is almost never even about overrated or not.
It's interesting to see some of these comments. For example, Aidan Morris v LDLT. The issue is not league. I'd have the same view if Morris played in MLS or the Championship. I think Morris IS better than LDLT. I think it is a close call and maybe I'm wrong. But I think when you have a situation like this you keep an open and give both players about equal opportunities (which won't be a huge amount because both are behind other players). But you try to find a friendly or two with the main team to see how each one fits in. It wouldn't be a high priority because of where both are on the depth chart. Club pedigree is very useful information. But it shouldn't override what our eyes tell us.
Yeah. And Ream the second half of the season. Adams probably shouldn’t have been on the roster due to his injury situation. Pepi didn’t start for PSV and didn’t get many minutes as a backup. Everyone else is either platooning or starting. This “roster full of benchearmers” idea is out there and I believe is a bit overstated. Chris Richards started 19 straight games for Palace at one point and post Copa I’ve seen him mentioned as needing more playing time. As another example, there seems to be some who think WM wasn’t playing much for Juve (incorrect) since he’s not in the new coaches plans. My guess, and this is just a guess, is that everyone wants to find one reason for the Copa under performance and once you land on lack of minutes as your primary reason many extend it to the whole roster without any research. Now, you could easily take the players that were lacking playing time and cite that is one of multiple reasons and I would buy that.
LDLT has had some strong performances for the USMNT including one MOTM performance. He’s also had some stinkers. When we need a shuttler in the MF he seems like the second best guy we have for that. Morris seems like a different kind of MF, at least to me. As to the thread title Q, the market value of our player seems a good way to compare them. People whose livelihood is on the line express a willingness to pay for their services that is probably the closest we can get to some sort of “all else equal” measure of value. But all else is never really equal. As to the Q in the text of the first post, I want me keeper, CBs and my strikers to be playing regularly.