Any Ukrainians here to talk about the elections? [NSR]

Discussion in 'Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, & the former Soviet Repu' started by tomo, Nov 22, 2004.

  1. tomo

    tomo New Member

    May 25, 2004
    ANTWERP, BELGIUM
    Are there any Ukrainians on this forum? If so, what do you think about the elections? Were they corrupt or fair? Who did you vote for?
     
  2. Canadian_Supporter

    Staff Member

    Dec 20, 1999
    Prostějov, CR
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Corrupt... I can't believe this is still happening. I hope the people of Ukraine pull through...
     
  3. tomo

    tomo New Member

    May 25, 2004
    ANTWERP, BELGIUM
    I feel the same way but probably they'll be beaten down and dragged away during nighttime.

    Good luck to them anyway, the right cause is worth fighting for...
     
  4. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    Though this is blatantly off-topic, I will allow it for now. But the second this gets ugly in any way, I have many perfectly good reasons to close the thread.
     
  5. Zenit

    Zenit Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 3, 2000
    Above the Tear Line
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since this forum has been very tolerant of other OT threads related to former CIS countries or subject, I find this thread perfectly appropriate. I cannot imagine it getting too nasty as I doubt there are going to be too many around to defend Putin's/Kuchma's bobo... unless some of the 95+% (alleged) supporters of said bobo from Donetsk or Lugansk find their way there.

    I will reserve judgment until tomorrow, when the Ukrainian parliament convenes; I'm not too hopeful of anything too useful happening, I guess it is still possible (a.k.a. Georgia and their sham election, not too long ago.)

    But if results hold up-- Aleksandr Lukashenko will be very happy, as he has been displaced as the architect of the biggest election scam in the short history of the CIS Commonwealth.

    And I find Putin's meddling in this election to be nothing short of scandalous. That is putting it politely. :mad:
     
  6. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    So, you do not allow for the slightest possibility that more Ukrainians actually HAD voted for Yanukovich than Yushchenko?

    Of course there was fraud! But it was almost surely on both sides.
    The 95% for Yanukovich in Donetsk is just as unbelievable as the 93.5% for Yushchenko in Ivano-Frankovsk.
    93% for Yanukovich in Lugansk? How about the 92% for Yushchenko in Lvov?

    Come on! Just because you don't like one of the candidates doesn't mean the other guy is legit. The fact of the matter is Yanukovich is probably more legit than Bush.
     
  7. Zenit

    Zenit Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 3, 2000
    Above the Tear Line
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Certainly, I allow for that possibility that Yanukovich might have indeed won...I just sincerely doubt it.

    And I also am certain that there was fraud on both sides...a legacy of Russian/Soviet politics that Ukraine is only too familiar, whether you are a Soviet style bobo or a "liberal" in the Soviet sense.

    The turnout in the eastern part of the country is where the red flags start popping up like so many cappilaries on Yeltsin's mug after a hard bender...you're telling me that 95+% of eligible voters turned out in Lugansk and Donetsk, and OF that 95%, virtually ALL of them voted for said Soviet bobo? Not mathematically impossible, but 99.999999999% improbable.
     
  8. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    It's understandable that the Western observers, given their obvious preference, keyed their attention on Donetsk and Lugansk. But are the numbers from the West legit? Absolutely, utterly and completely impossible.

    The whole hubbub started because the early exit polls showed Kerry... shoot, sorry... Yushchenko ahead by 14% and then Yanukovich won by 3. So, the natural reaction was, in true Russian (by the way) manner: "Zasudili!"
    I am not buying any of it.

    Ukraine cannot have fair elections. They are not mentally equipped to handle them. They are not a democratic nation. I say, they deserve Yanukovich.
     
  9. Zenit

    Zenit Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 3, 2000
    Above the Tear Line
    Club:
    Zenit St Petersburg
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Methinks you got them GDR blinders on again, Slava. In case you didn't notice, the OSCE team included Polish, Czech, Slovakian, Bulgarian, and (gasp) even Belarusian observers (how they got on the team I have no idea, but they did-- even more comical was how the same bunch got into the US to observe our election, and Belarus was the 1st country to lodge an international protest on how unfair the US elections were. Mr. Pot, may I introduce you to Mr. Kettle?? You can read all the good yuks here: http://www.belarusembassy.org/political/statement041027.htm )

    And Lukashenko tonite is laughing his SS off, as Soviet bobo #1 and wannabe Soviet bobo PM has just taken all the heat off of him, for a couple more years. Why? Because "that is the way it has been, and that is the way it shall be..so saith (insert your favorite bobo here-- take your pick among the current crop of neo-Soviets)"

    Not exactly just the West, eh, my friend, that is protesting the election? Seems like most of Eastern Europe shares the same opinion...

    Your mileage may vary, as it often does. I'm just glad that you've taken an interest and weighed in with your thoughts regarding the issue, and while I believe we agree on some things, and disagree on some other aspects of the election, I for one very much enjoy the back-n-forth discourse.

    Peace. Out.

    And if you think I will suffer your back-handed slaps at Piter much longer without a vicious & devastating response in kind ...brother, you have another thing coming (with all apologies and accreditation to Judas Priest.)
    ;)
     
  10. Lemieux

    Lemieux Member

    Aug 19, 2000
    Baltimore Federal Hill
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is also being discussed in the politics section...
     
  11. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    I think you are missing the point.

    OF COURSE THE ELECTION WAS CORRPUT!!! How could it not be? Nowadays, US elections are corrupt and this is Ukraine, for crying out loud!
    And if Yuschenko won the election would've been just as corrupt. Because both sides cheated big time.

    So, if the election is corrupt how can you say that Yushchenko is the true choice of the Ukrainians? Simply because he wasn't as skillful a cheater as Yanukovich?
    If the results are illegitimate, both men are illegitimate. This is all I am saying.

    And I am looking forward to your vicious and swift response to the city of Bendery.
     
  12. gaijin

    gaijin New Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    Malaysia
    I wish I could syphon off some of the comments I made on another board.

    Is it me, or do you guys actually think that this could well entail soccer as part of this political discussion.

    It touches on this in the Kyiv/Donetsk article I posted. Yanukovych being the Donetsk candidate (orange party) and the blue whites of Yushencko. It could almost well be a game between DK and Shakthar with both parties claiming a win in a game postponed at half-time.

    Needless to say, both parties have had the backing of both either heavy media control or huge financial gain by [ahem] local buisnesses. Welcome to the world of organised crime and politically corrupt Eastern Europe.

    It really is a shame, you can live in Belarus, Russia, Georgia it doesn't matter. It seems that allows the vile stench of corruption in the heart of democracy is always the real winner here.

    Pro-Russia? Pro-West? Quite frankly Ukraine's interests won't be different on either case. Both Yanukovych and Yushencko won't radically alter the course of Ukraine in the near future. The Western media and foreign press are having a field-day with this one. Will the people get what they want? Who knows - but quite frankly this is just a small tip of a very large iceberg.
     
  13. gaijin

    gaijin New Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    Malaysia
  14. Shurik

    Shurik New Member

    Nov 2, 1999
    Baltimore, MD
    "Yanukovych was born in the working class neighborhood of Makiivka to a family of Belarusian immigrants."

    I stopped reading right there due to severe lack of air in my lungs and an acute pain in my chest. I am still trying to stop laughing hysterically... but... I... just.... can't stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. gaijin

    gaijin New Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    Malaysia
    erm. I think they fixed it. Christ that was quick. I'll see if I can find it again.
     
  16. gaijin

    gaijin New Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    Malaysia
    This s***t just gets a whole load deeper.

    Opposition leaders called Wednesday for a nationwide strike to shut down factories, schools and transportation after officials declared Ukraine's pro-Kremlin prime minister had won a presidential runoff election that many countries denounced as rigged. The call by Viktor Yushchenko and his allies for an "all-Ukrainian political strike" risked provoking a heavy-handed crackdown by outgoing President Leonid Kuchma's government, which has said the opposition's actions in the aftermath of Sunday's bitterly disputed runoff are, in effect, preparations for a coup d'etat...

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...=/ap/20041124/ap_on_re_eu/ukraine_elections_8

    A coup d'etat? wtf? This isn't west Africa!
     

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