An Alternative View on the War on Terror

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Anthony, Jul 8, 2005.

  1. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know that everyone, from George Bush to George Galloway thinks this is all some sort of West v. Moslems war.

    But maybe, what is really going on is a very confused civil war among Moslems in general (and Arab Moslems in particular) and we in the West (plus Israel) are just getting in the way.

    Consider the war as being between:

    1. Shia v. Sunni (Iraq)
    2. Arab Sunnis v. non-Arab Sunnis (Iraq and Darfur)
    3. Secular Moslems v. Religious Moslems (Syria, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt)
    4. Qutbists v. Wahhabists (Saudi Arabia)
    5. Liberals v. authoritarians (to some extent, everywhere)
     
  2. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ
    Don't forget the Salfists
     
  3. vivzig

    vivzig New Member

    Oct 4, 2004
    The OC
    None of this is new. We just didn't care until they attacked us.
     
  4. Metroweenie

    Metroweenie New Member

    Aug 15, 2004
    Westchester, NY
    that's his point
     
  5. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. And in a sense, what the leaders of the Moslem world (especially Saudi Arabia) seem to be trying to do is export their civil war to the West. After all, before 9/11, France was subject to a series of bomb attacks tied to Algerian terrorists. The bin Laden "Declaration of War" was in the 1990s. Bin Laden's real problem is that he saw us as propping up the Saudi government -- Iraq and the Palestinians are relatively recent concerns to him.

    Even the problems in Israel have an inter-Arab conflict flavor about them. I felt (and I know some commentators who actually know something about these things felt) that Arafat was encouraging the bombers as a way to deflect opposition to his regime. And in a sense it worked. Arafat died in a French hospital bed rather than at the end of a noose in Hebron.

    Even now, the battles between Hamas, Fatah, IJ and PFLP are taking place in the context of proving who can send more bombs into Israel. In some ways the battles among the Palestinians are a microcosim of the entire Moslem civil war. You have a small number of liberals fighting against authoritarianism. You have secular terrorists (like the PFLP) fighting religious terrorists (like Hamas and Islamic Jihad). You have various different types of religious terrorists fighting each other (Hamas seems somewhat Wahabbist inspired and while Fatah is ususal considered secular, it does have in its past a connection with the Egyptian Moslem Brotherhood, which is Qutbist inspired). The thing is a mess, and in the end, it is easier I guess for the Palestinians to kill Israelis rather than sort the mess out.
     
  6. Ian McCracken

    Ian McCracken Member

    May 28, 1999
    USA
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The Muslim religion is fvcked up, that's what I gather from your list.
     
  7. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    It's like any other organized religion: it forms, it breaks into sects, and those sects kill each other.
     
  8. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    and the Christian sects did it hundreds of years ago
     
  9. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If only their gods had made them more efficient at it, we might be done with religion and ready to evolve some more by now :cool:
     
  10. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    No kidding. Stupid violent theocrats.

    Sincerely,
    Ian Paisley
     
  11. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD

    The terror attacks and conflicts in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Turkey, Afghanistan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Indonesia certainly support your point.
     
  12. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    Right. They're just on different schedules.

    Western nations got smart the removing/reducing the church's influence in politics. The problem right now is that the state players don't have the power to do that so they play along.
     
  13. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms

    I don't think Muslim religion has much to do with terrorism. That's a misunderstanding.
     
  14. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ

    It justifies their actions so of course it has much to do with it
     
  15. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    Islam doesn't have much to do with terrorism, but terrorists seem to have a lot to do with Islam.
     
  16. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD
    The Islamic world is in a state of profound identity crisis due to the following reasons, in no particular order:
    1) Corrupt dictatorial regimes
    2) Post-colonial legacy problems similar to those of Africa
    3) Humilation due to relative poverty and military impotency
    4) Influence of the Western values that look more enticing than traditional ones
    5) National identity issues

    Out of these issues comes a lot of social turmoil similar to the kind of internal turmoil that gave rise to fascism and communism in Europe last century. Al-Qaeda and Islamism is the symptom/outcome of such turmoil, it seeks whatever outlet it can find, be it Israel, the West, or local institutions.

    ...And this is why strong democratic Arab states would be beneficial.
     

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