no problem. skhuravy was never touted like platt so comparing them is, as always with you, idiotic. of course you think toto was rubbish since you never saw him play after the world cup, you just look at his goals. stupid. nothing new there. he was regarded as that back then. if not, then he was one of the top two or three. gary was pretty damn good yep. ive already told you why managers are hired. cant you read? decent? i thought you said they were good. their best finish in the prem league was 7th or something. usually hovering around 13th or whatever. yeah, thats comparable to sampdoria at that time. stupid. okay. so what youre saying is milan or inter couldnt come up with £17m then. stupid. sunderland are in the premiership. of course they could afford him because they have all the money. milan and inters issues will be dealt with. why dont you explain how these prem league teams with all their money arent able to buy anything worth while. not because they couldnt afford it you idiot. he left because he wanted to play in the best league in the world against the best teams in the world. he would have kept him if he wanted to stay though. if he wasnt good enough then why did he play every game? youve got to be kidding. even you cant be that dumb.
How is it Platt's fault that people realised how good he was? Strikers are judged on goals, that is their job. It was particularly Schillachi's. Top 3 means nothing, it's like saying Materazzi is one of the top three CBs in Italy. He was still awful at Everton. Thankfully I can read, it's just as well one of us can. Two illiterate people arguing in a thread would be too much to handle. You told me he was appointed was because of personality. Something David Platt doesn't possess. In fact it was because he is revered for his time there as a player. No. But how many times have they spent that in the last 3 years? WTF? Like Liverpool the European Champions? Or Arsenal who breezed through their CL group? Umm riiiiiight. Ferguson got rid of him because he wanted to give the youngsters a go. He was proved right. United won 5 titles and a CL in the next 6 years without Ince. As you weren't watching football at this stage I don't expect you to know any of these players.
I'm just saying that financially, the big clubs in Italy are far more responsible now than they were. Even with those buys Juve touched the red for the first time in years last season, if I'm not mistaken. Milan bought Gilardino and then neglected to sign a center back because they didn't want to spend anymore whereas years ago they got Inzaghi, Rui Costa, and Nesta within a few weeks for something like 100M. It’s an improvement. Well, I originally thought that you were trying to put a negative connotation on Serie A's lack of spending and I was just contrasting it with its past and against other leagues. I'm thrilled about it! What brought it about (the collapse of Fiorentina, and the almost collapse of Lazio and Parma) was negative in every sense, but what has transpired because of it is great IMO. I was referring more to the players bought and sold, yes. Mutu, for example, even though he was a crack head, played well. I'd say he was only a marginal failure on the pitch. The cocaine thing was only an excuse to get rid of him and buy someone new. Did I just type that? Same thing with Crespo. Only scored 12 in 14 starts? Get rid of him! It’s silly. They thought of ridding themselves of Drogba at the beginning of this season to get another superstar striker. That’s the type of thing I'm referring to. But, Abramovich is rich, so it’s all good I suppose.
did i say it was platts fault? im saying youre an idiot for comaring numbers between two players that different in reputation. so you admit you never saw him play. great. i know not to discuss toto with you again. materazzi isnt. platt is missing his personality? you never hire a player as coach because of his skills as a footballer. how is that relevant? just because brad pitt doesnt fvck 10 different girls every day doesnt mean he cant if he wants to. im just agreeing with you that all the money is now in the prem league. no one in serie a has any money to spend. yeah, like those teams. and man utd. newcastle. if they got all this money you say they have, why dont they buy all the good players? even someone as dumb as you should agree with that. but then again your stupidity knows no limits. ferguson let him go because he wanted to leave. if he didnt want to play him, then ince wouldnt have played. i dont compare holding mids with wingers. only someone as dumb as you would do that. but hey, whats new right? anderton werent better then ince anyway. neither were those other guys. batty maybe. mcmanaman was just breaking through, his best years were after ince left. lee? you must be high if you think he was better then ince. and gazza played less then 50 games for lazio in that three year span. how he was better then ince is beyond me.
I'm comapring numbers of two players, one who you claim "stunk it up" in Italy and one who you make out to be some sort of legend at Genoa. No Football Italia started in Britain in 1992, I watched Schillachi in domestic football from then on. Isn't what? Why does he keep playing for Italy? You clearly have never seen any interviews with Platt. Right, you might want to let Marco Van Basten, Rudi Voller and Jurgen Klinsmann know about that. That's ridiculous. I take this is what passes for wit in the the Duck Manson household. I thought you were going to post up the numbers of Serie A's massive transfers. Then you said you didn't know any numbers. They have all bought alot of good players. Arsenal are strapped for cash because of their stadium. He left because Ferguson didn't want him. If he wanted to play abroad so much he would have made fergie sell him to Barca when they came calling. He wanted to play him until the youngsters were ready, which they were in 1995. Next you'll be saying Hughes and Kanchelskis wanted to leave as well. Who are we judging Ince against then? David Batty, Tim Sherwood, Geoff Thomas and ... Big deal, he was the "best" English, defensive midfielder. Other than Batty there was sod all competition. Your case that he went from amazing to average is based on nothing. He was good in England, he was good in Italy, he came back to England and wasn't quite as good as he had been.
skhuravy is a genoa legend. ah so you saw one year of toto. ill certainly consult you next time his name comes up. isnt one of the top three central defenders in serie a. beats me. even inter fans think he stink. so if you owned a team youd hire your coach based on interviews? once again, your stupidity is incredible. all of them hired because of their personality. to you it is. just because you dont do something doesnt mean you cant. youre basing your idiotic claim that serie a teams dont have money on them not buying like chelsea are. that is rediculous. i told you to show me the big transfers in england not involving chelsea. that was too difficult for you so thats where that ended up. not buying doesnt mean you cant though. see, today i didnt buy anything but i still have money. im sure that seems impossible to you. really? who are they? theyve bought young cheap players (except for rooney), a very few big names, and crap. thats basically it. im done with this. ince was sold because he wanted to play for inter. end of story. what does hughes have to do with ince? ince was in his prime. hughes wasnt. you can sell players when theyre not needed or not good enough any more too. that just wasnt the case with ince. he was sold because he wanted a new challange. sounds good to me. ince was the best of the lot. i suspect thats why he was a england captain, too. with 50 caps to his name. where did i say ince was amazing?
want me to name all the coaches that were average or bad players? just because some high profile retired players get manager jobs doesnt mean they were hired because of their skills as players. they are hired because they are coach type personalities.
On the back of figures less impressive than a player you claim "stunk it up" in Serie A. How much did you see? Where are you based? I said Italian, not Serie A. Yet he continues to feature. I'd base it on managerial experience and qualifications. Platt had none. Failing that an interview would be a good start.My knowledge of David Platt's personality is based on his interviews, as I'm not a close personal friend of his. What are you on about? They were hired because they were legends in their country. If someone doesn't do something when they need to, the suggestion is that they can't. Why exclude Chelsea? They are an English club that can afford any player. That is the point. I showed you Ferdinand, Rooney and Owen. You came back with nothing. Try Xabi Alonso, Morientes, Hleb, Owen, Parker, Reyes, Reina, Luque, Ronaldo, Saha, Heinze. You have nothing to support this, just as you have nothing to support any of your arguments The point is that in 1995 Ferguson got rid of Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis, 3 players he no longer wanted because he had excellent young players The best of the English defensive midfielders. So what? He was still nothing amazing in the Premiership. You made a big thing about him being the "best midfielder" and how it was pathetic that he was only "decent" when he moved to Italy, as if he had been incredible in England.
OTOH, he probably sees his dad's failure to get in the World Cup as a cautionary tale...... George has lived in New York for 15+ years. This would hardly be an injustice comparable to what the Italians and Spainards did in the 30s and 50s or Whoregreaves...
I guess. I'm just not sure it has much to do with the topic at hand. Its good in that sense, yeah. Obviously spending more is more likely to get you the best players. But, at the moment, Italian clubs have to content themselves with getting back into the black first. Which is good in the long-run. Mutu started somewhat well and then played poorly. And kept playing poorly. He's not very fast, which is dangerous for an EPL player. As a support striker he also didn't fit into Mourinho's system at all. Whoa - Crespo wanted to leave us, not the other way around! He's even back this year! We were looking to get someone besides Drogba. And we will this summer when we throw a ridiculous sum at Moratti for Adriano. I don't know if you watch Chelsea play much, but our club is crying out for Adriano, who's uniquely built for the system we play. Fast, strong, good work-rate, good in the air and he can actually bloody finish. Yes, he can have goal droughts at times, but Drogba hasn't scored an away EPL goal in over a year. I could deal with Adriano's goal droughts. And I look forward to seeing what Mourinho could get out of Adriano given that he's made Joe Cole into the best English player at the moment in just a couple of years.
id say i saw maybe 80% of his games for Juventus and 100% of his azzurri games. you said italy, not italian. yeah when we have injury problems. and even then he shouldnt be playing in most peoples opinion. so you have no idea why he was hired then. then we can assume he was hired because he had that personality thats needed to be a coach. if they wanted to hire someone because of their on the field preformance, he certainly wouldnt have been chosen. he wasnt even close to sampdorias best player irrelevant. you dont hire someone because theyre a legend. you hire them because you think they can do a good job coaching because of their football knowledge and their personality and if you think your players will listen. being a playing legend does help with that last part though. i dont think anyone would mistake platt for a legend though so that doesnt matter. and why would Juventus or milan need to buy more players exactly? milan is having some defensive problems and that will, as i said, be dealt with pretty soon. i bet you think they wont be able to afford anyone good since theyve only bought nesta, jankulovski and stam the last couple years. because you said serie a dont have money any more and the prem league does. chelsea isnt the prem league. thats a russian billionares toy -- not an indication of the prem league. bojinov, gilardino, kaka, stankovic, cannavaro, toni, figo, fiore, samuel (twice), jankulovski, emerson, ibrahimovic, vieira, chivu... good enough? i wonder which set of players youd choose. and you do? atleast mine make sense. you claim 1. serie a teams have no money because they dont spend. 2. ferguson sold ince because he didnt need him, but he still played every game, and ferguson has a history for selling players that he does in fact need, for personal reasons. 3. gazza, walker and platt were successes in italy when they either were sold after a short while, jumped around from team to team or were out injured. 4. ince wasnt england best midfielder when inter bought him, in his prime i might add, but he was englands captain and got 50 caps. 5. sheffwed was a good (although changed that to decent) team, while their preformances in league play showed they werent. yeah man utd had excellent young players. doesnt change the fact that ince wanted a new experience and wanted to join inter. he would not have been sold if that wasnt the case. you cant sell players unless they dont wanna leave. well you probably didnt see much of man utd back then. being the best in england doesnt mean i think hes amazing (in those days mind you). if you dont think ince was great those last two years for man utd, then youre clueless. he was dominating in my opinion. i wanted Juventus to get him too, but he wanted to join inter.
So you must be a Juventus season ticket holder? Are you? Yes or no? Otherwise it was not possible for you to watch that many games. Ding, ding, ding. Break out the bunting. Open a bottle of champagne. For the first time in his like Duck Manson is right about something. I did say Italy, I meant Italian. He stank up the Premiership, but is doing so well in Serie A. Repeat to fade: He has no personality, he was chosen for his on pitch performances. Platt was chosen for his performances at the club. I am fully aware of what Milan have done in recent years. I follow Milan. Then let's exclude Juve, Inter, Milan and Fiorentina, the only 4 teams in Italy with two beans to rub together as they are not representative of the other clubs. The only players signed for serious money were Gilardino, Emerson and Vieira. Only to you, no-one else has a clue what the fcuk you are no about. Most of them are penniless, show me statistics of their spending or turnover. Look at this http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/press_release/0,1014,sid%3D1018%26cid%3D74209,00.html Please give any evidence that Ferguson let Ince go for personal reasons. I didn't say they were resounding successes (although Platt was). You said that Walker was "a complete disaster", Platt was "very disappointing" and Gascoigne was a "no-show". I refuted all these. Make your mind up. He was not the best midfielder, Gascoigne was far better. Go and ask on the England or United boards if you don't believe me. They were a good to decent team. It is still irrelevant about whether Walker was a disaster or not. There are ways of getting rid of players. Most players don't stay if they know the boss wants to sell them. I am certain I saw a great deal more than you. They showed very little Premiership football in Italy at the time, I assume you were in Italy at the time to make use of your Juve season ticket.
theres something called television that was invented a long time before 1990. im sure youve heard of it? swedish chanal4 was huge on serie a back then and had live coverage and delayed games all the time. *celebrates* no he isnt. then they made a bad decision. thats not the right criteria for hiering a coach. see above. and still you dont think they have money. you cant be following them closely. okay so lets exclude everyone with money. then none of the leagues in question has any. so your point is that because prem league teams paid more theyre better players; or are you saying italian teams have better scouts? because however you twist and turn this the italian teams ended up with the better players. how much money they spent is irrelevant. its still not even close to proof that serie a teams dont have money. you said serie a dont have money. they do. but of course if you take away all the big teams, that changes things a bit. im sure the same apply for prem league. please give any evidence that he didnt. i didnt say you said they were resounding successes either (and platt wasnt). platt was very disappointing, and gazza was a no-show (obviously he was playing less then 50 games in three years) gazza showed glimpses of brilliance, but overall didnt have a good period at lazio by any standards (atleast by his own). no its not. if sheffwed had been todays chelsea, obviously he would never have signed there because he wasnt good enough. he signed with them because he was average. and all managers sell players that want to leave. i seriously doubt that.
you know what? lets leave this idiotic pissing contest already. im sure people are sick of it already if they even bother reading it. i have my views on ince, gazza and walkers italian success, you have yours. i have my views on the italian teams buying power, you have yours. thats basically what this has come down to. its not worth continuing because we will never agree.
Meh, whatever. I'm happy to leave it, it has completely overtaken over this thread. People can make their minds up about British players in Italy.