Do you seriously think that college coaches aren’t speaking to the club coaches before then? Be serious. The Power 5 schools do it ALL the time. And they’re actually allowed to speak to the club coach to get their opinion of the player “without expressing their interest”. If anything, club coaches wield more power than ever now. Just another example of a rule with good intentions that works counter to those intentions.
How is this guy even employed? Forced out of three schools after successful seasons. Several Ohio clubs won't let players go to Cincinnati because of him.
Most of what you say is true. The majority of the clubs do a pretty good job of matching talent up with the appropriate fit when looking at schools. Conversely, there are some clubs out there that will oversell the abilities of some of their players. I can think of a few clubs that routinely send kids to P5 schools only to have those kids not get much time, transfer schools, or quit the game altogether. Anagnost & Neil Stafford, Cincinnati's coach, worked together at Central Michigan for a few seasons from somewhere around 2008-2010. Stafford is willing to overlook some things for an old friend.
Read my post again. That is not what I said at all. I said they cannot make offers before June 15th, and they cannot tell a club coach to pass along their interest prior to June 15th. Is that latter one a gray area? Sure. But, a college coach is a fool if they open themselves up to recruiting violations directly to someone who has no reason to protect them. Of course college coaches can call club coaches for opinions. But that is all they are (just like any employer reference). I know one club coach (under the previous rules) who refused to tell players if certain schools were interested in them because he wanted to control where they went. The college coaches were furious, but they could not talk to the players while other schools could (the ones the club coach told to call). So club coaches do not hold this power anymore. On June 15th, every player is available to everyone. College coaches can see if a club coach has an agenda in trashing a kid. They are not stupid.
Oh absolutely! I think, however, young men tend not to report it because of fear. We hear a lot out of the Another poster mentioned that within the club system, too much power is given to coaches- and that I agree. In terms of club coaches holding power over college coaches, I agree with you that club coaches do not hold this power. However, the club coaches do hold that power over players and parents. Most players and parents are entirely clueless when it comes to recruiting so what the club coach or director says- goes... simply because they don't know better.
Of course club coaches have some power (if a family gives it to them- they can seek advice elsewhere), but they do not hold power over contacts between college coaches and players anymore. They can be bypassed altogether now. The new rules are a positive thing.
Dames started ECNL because there “wasn’t enough competition.” It was a massive upsell to gullible parents. Tell parents their daughters “had to play in ECNL with and against the best” to get a scholarship, then when most/all the top talent moved to those clubs, suddenly they say “see, look at all the talent we have.”
We can respectfully agree to disagree on that. The rules have had the opposite effect. Club coaches now act as more of an intermediary than ever since the recruiting calendar has been pushed back. Those gray conversations take place every day. Do you think a college coach is going to call a club coach they watched and didn’t like? It’s no different than before except it all happens behind the scenes.
I am directly involved in these conversations. Club coaches are NOT the intermediary. They cannot be by rules until after the college coach already has free rein to contact players. THEY CAN CALL CLUB COACHES. I said this. It is perfectly legal. But, the club coach cannot arrange for the two parties to talk before June 15th. It does not happen because prospects know it is against the rules. Read my previous post. If you know coaches cheating then report them. First hand from a top 5 college coach when the rules changed: "Thank god we no longer have to go through XXX anymore." XXX is a club coach at a top club.
The new rules have taken power away from club coaches. They can brag all they want that so and so coach called them. But college coaches are no longer reliant on a club coach to filter messages.
Definitely going to catch up if it hasn't already with the Cinci crew. Especially headed into the Big 12. A lot of smart players steering away. Funny with all the news about the NWSL a coach like TA has nine live.
It blows my mind that you started a new thread talking about abuse when you took the energy to debunk claims against Mark Carr at Oklahoma. I get asking for details about the abuse or stating that roster turnover is nothing new when a new coach comes in. But several posters indicated things were bad at OU yet you, who is allegedly familiar with abuse at the club and college level, actually took the time and energy to try to prove them wrong on a public forum? Providing incorrect stats about transfers, roster size, blah blah blah! Not just questioning abuse but claiming the people posting about abuse were.... "Disgruntled former staff? Parent of a kid on the pine? Not sure which. I can tell you though I know one of OUs assistants personally, and that person is one of the most honest and kind humans I have ever met. Absolutely stand-up person. Some people don't like the honesty but sometimes honesty is hard to hear." Shame on you! YOU are part of the problem! Another OU player in the portal but she probably is transferring like the other almost 35-40 players who left because she didn't play much. Wake tf up!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you said you don't know how this abuse happens for 20 years with Dames??? It's because of people like you. Just because coaches aren't fired after investigations doesn't mean abuse isn't happenning. Look at Dames, Riley, Burke, etc. Did the kind and honest OK assistant tell you that Carr had a player spend the night at his house during this past season and took photos of her on his phone when she was crying and on meds after surgery and then he walked around at the next team meeting and showed everyone in the room the photos of this girl??????? Kind? Honest? Complacent! This was one of dozens of things he was investigated for that somehow got swept under the rug.
And yet some coaches have been allowed to settle, say "Im sorry" and carry on. The double standards are shocking.
Someone has an axe to grind! With the Oklahoma coach I think we are still waiting to hear the specific instances of abuse. Administrations need these because if they fire a coach without cause they get sued. If the Oklahoma coach is abusing athletes I’m sure there will be specific examples coming out that will bury him. While on the subject of abusive coaches is there any additional word of what is occurring at Colorado State?
It sounds like you just got a specific example of something that happened. Like the poster said, bad coaches are protected and overlooked many times. We have lots of evidence of that now with the NWSL coaches. I get that there is turn over when a new coach comes in but to have 100% and only 2 upper class men remaining? That seems unusual.
For sure it could be I’m just waiting to hear actual examples. Maybe it’s just awful coaching who knows. As I said on another thread though I would guess based on results and these murmurs of unhappy athletes that unless they have a miracle turnaround this fall that he will be gone.
So weird that Anagnost & Stafford were at Central Michigan when that huge DiTucci scandal was going on. Rumors, and just rumors were flying around at that time about Anagnost allegedly being as dirty as DiTucci, but yet was able to move to Miami before the bottom fell out. Similarly, did Kagen and Hamilton stand by and not say anything about the alleged incident at Miami? Today is a much different time. I would imagine today if an AD learned something took place at Miami, and thought that a person didn’t do anything to call attention to it, well it just might be enough to find a reason to send a person packing. I am certainly not saying that is what occurred at OSU and ECU. I would also think an AD that got wind of other coaches that helped keep some of these guys in the women’s game, or helped get them back into the women’s game, gosh, that could be trouble too. Sometimes being on the Hotlist doesn’t have anything to do with W’s…
Here is where I’m not following you. On June 15th, they were ALWAYS allowed to speak to players. I get that you are saying in the past, offers were able to go out before then and the club coaches could help in that area, but not much has changed in that regard. Don’t think for one second that club coaches don’t pass along who has called about them and then you suddenly see those players show up at an ID Clinic. It’s a longer courting period for sure, but make no mistake about it, the club coaches still hold a lot of sway. You may think it’s a level playing field now, but if a club coach doesn’t like a college coach for some reason (bad experience by former players, coach doesn’t return calls or emails…etc) it won’t matter if the college can contact the player directly or not. They’re toast.
As I said, if coaches are cheating report them. Players can go to camps. Nothing illegal about it. But coaches cannot talk recruiting with them at the camp. As I have said, I am involved in these conversations, and I have not seen coaches cheating. Club coaches can always talk poorly of a player. Just like your former boss can say you are a bad employee. Opinions are just that. College coaches know who the as*holes are. The reality is that no offers can be made until June 15th, so everyone is available on that date.
Hey my guy! 1. The OP kept grinding an axe on the Hot Seat thread wanting to beat a dead horse about the HC at OU while most of us were watching coaching openings and new hires and discussing who we thought might move into those positions. 2. Another person posted the links that I provided at the start of this thread and in an attempt not to derail the Hot Seat thread, I moved them into a new thread so that the topic could be discussed because IT IS A TOPIC THAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED. 3. No one here is condoning any abuse. Some of these athletes go through literal hell. Their PUBLIC stories should be told but an anonymous forums board is not the place to make anonymous claims attempting to slander a coach that a person wishes to be removed from their job. This forum isn't huge and it likely is not going to draw the attention you desire about the situation. 4. I did not attempt to 'debunk' OPs claims about the HC at OU. I simply stated why players transfer and that it is common when a new HC comes in that there is big movement. It's simple fact. My own kids team has a retention rate around 50%. It is what it is. 5. If I were you, I would consider removing the information about the player that you posted. (I removed it from the quote reply here.) It's her story to tell. If she wants to tell it, that's for her to tell. While you didn't name her, internet sleuths could likely figure out her identity and that would be a horrid thing for her if she did not want to be public. Consider that for her. [Edited: I'm not being flipant or callous in my suggestion of 5 above. Not trying to claim it didn't happen either. If it were my kid, I just wouldn't want my kid to be outted if my kid didn't want to go public. No one knows who they're talking to on these forums. Heck, the famous TA could be posting and none of us would know!]
I get you feel the need to be right all the time, but you misread my post and meaning. Club coaches can talk badly about college coaches. Wasn’t saying players. And it will hold a lot of sway, regardless of when offers can go out and who can contact whom. If you think club coaches don’t hold just as much power now as they did before, your head is in the sand. If you are someone that thought the rule change was a good thing, because it delayed recruiting decisions, you’re probably right. But if you think it lessened the power of club coaches in any way, you’re incorrect.
i love how many here are pressing for specific details of abuse to be posted otherwise it is all claimed as false and exaggerated whining but when a specific example is posted the poster is the. attacked for posting the information. Either the real story is to be shared or it should be kept private - can’t have it both ways. If you come here praising a coaching staff that clearly some seem to have real issues with you will get a reaction.
Coaches talking badly about college coaches has nothing to do with the recruiting rules. That is just daily life. I am not incorrect about the ramifications the new recruiting rules have on club coaches playing the middle man. That was what this discusion was about. I am also not the only one who believes this. See Upprv has agreed with me, yet no one has agreed with you. As I have said, I am directly involved in these conversations, and the new rules have been beneficial to players and college coaches.
The new rule has completely taken power away from club coaches. It’s delayed the commitment timeline and thus our contact and conversation Into the hands of colleges coaches and the players themselves. Club coaches can no longer withhold interest from colleges or act as go between. It’s super beneficial for all.
If you say so. LOL. You have no idea who anyone is on this board so hard to claim you’re in the know without knowing who you are talking to. You must be at a power 5 school and not involved on the club side. If that’s the case, you are most definitely not in the know.