All Time Xi Germany vs England vs France vs Italy vs Brazil

Why would England even be involved in this? Comparing these four nations, clearly one is not like the others.

 

I'd prefer to include Argentina with their 3 GOAT in the lineup.

 

I disagree generally. Although they’ve been catching up recently, and sure, they’ve had great players in their history, for the most part, especially when compared to their continent European and/or South American counterparts, English players are clumsy, devoid of technical ability and natural skill, and very little natural creativity.

 

Well, ok. Good point. But that’s where the difference in success has to weight in.

The Germans, traditionally might not be silky smooth, or pretty to watch, but they’ve played in what, 12-15 major tournament finals or something like that. If the English were that successful, the fact that they trip over their own feet wouldn’t matter as much.

They don’t belong in a comparison with these teams. Possibly not even in a comparison with the next tier of national teams.

 

I think I'd just about favour Brazil, over France, in theory with the line-ups you've got. If I adjusted them (allowing one suggested change too, for variety) to more what I might go with then probably I'd still give the same answer, but if anything a bit more clearly (Brazil over the rest, France more clear as 2nd, while I understand that in terms of historical results they don't merit 2nd probably...but as you've said this is just comparing all-time teams).

For Brazil central defence would be the uncertain one for me, but potentially I'd try Carlos Alberto in the middle with Aldair I think, and I'd be thinking of Zito in for Dunga in midfield, and putting Zico more as a number 10, with Pele as inside left forward (roaming around from the opposite side to Garrincha). For the one possible change to my own line-up, Ronaldinho as the left forward, moving Pele to nominally operate from the other side I think.

For France, defence changes would be very arguable and down to personal calls I guess, but I'd be thinking of putting Blanc in alongside Desailly, and I think also moving Amoros to right back and having Lizarazu on the left, and also putting Bats in goal. I'd put in Vieira, and go with a magic square in midfield (Platini and Zidane as AMs), with Kopa supporting Henry ahead of that I guess, but as the alternative I might bring in Pires as left wing/AM (moving Kopa to a similar role from the right), and go more 4-3-3 with just Vieira backing up a CM/AM playmaker pairing of Platini and Zidane.

For Germany, possibly KH Forster for Kohler in defence, and on balance I think maybe Brehme getting in as left back, while I'd put Littbarski as one of the wing forwards I think, instead of Walter (but maybe Walter for Netzer could be the suggested alternative option).

For Italy, I can understand why you'd go with that system for sure, but maybe I'd switch it to a Christmas Tree kind of formation. Nesta for Gentile I'd go with I think, and I'll say Zambrotta for Bergomi (I'd favour this more clearly with the wing-back system though, and do kind of feel Zambrotta is better on the left - it's just that that position has a massive queue of great options...but I don't think I'd move Maldini away from that slot). Midfield is tricky, but I guess I could have a 3 tier midfield of Pirlo, Tardelli and Rivera, then Meazza and Baggio supporting possibly Piola. For the change, maybe Scirea in for Nesta, and a total commitment to possession play over caution....

Finally for England, the full-back positions are uncertain for me but in terms of prime form I might still lean towards Rob Jones and Pearce myself. I'd go with Finney at left wing, making it a 4-1-3-2, with Scholes making way and Bobby Charlton positioned as CAM. Also Lineker alongside Greaves I think up front. For the potential change, maybe Hoddle as an extra CM/AM (or right midfield, with Charlton left midfield, as they line-up), removing Greaves.

Without suggesting line-ups right now I'd think Argentina can be included in the mix though, and also the Netherlands, and probably now Spain rather than Hungary (with further alternative choices for the 8th slot in a QF line-up or pool of 8 being Uruguay with their historical legends and Portugal with a potential gung-ho line-up relying on going for goals I guess - it's all fantasy anyway but in theory a play-off arrangement between Spain, Hungary, Uruguay and Portugal would seem fun...but yeah maybe I think Spain would tiki taka their way past Portugal and Hungary would repeat the result of 1954 making a Spain vs Hungary final play-off game!).

 

I didn't specify who I'd put Vieira in for there did I sorry....but it'd be for Makelele (but with the alternative line-up I did take out Tigana too to bring Pires in, because although Tigana could certainly be great in terms of retrieving possession and stamina, I think Vieira's size and power might be a better fit in a supporting role behind Platini and Zidane....on the understanding he didn't need to venture forwards too much himself, while for me Tigana is best used with a degree of freedom and probably best suited to having a partner rather than purely hoovering up behind a pair of CM/AMs).

Actually for Italy, I'm thinking although I'd be reluctant to take Scirea out of the equation, I might instead have Verratti in midfield along with Tardelli, allowing Rivera in a pure number 10 role, and the alternative could be to bring in Pirlo (for one of midfielders, so possibly even Rivera, meaning more of a deep-lying playmaker set-up).

For Argentina I'll say Fillol; Zanetti, Ruggeri, Passarella, Marzolini; Ardiles, Redondo; Messi, Maradona; Di Stefano, Kempes (alternative Batistuta for Kempes, with Di Stefano as outright central AM).

For the Netherlands Van der Sar; Krol, Rijkaard, Van Dijk, Van Tiggelen; Gullit, Neeskens, Van Hanegem; Bergkamp, Cruyff; Van Basten (alternative Rensenbrink in Cruyff's slot, with Cruyff moving back into the midfield for Van Hanegem)


For Spain maybe Zamora (according to reputation) in goal, then I'd suggest a back 4 of Salgado, Hierro, Pique and Gordillo, Busquets as DM, Xavi as CM, Suarez Miramontes RCM/AM, Iniesta LCM/AM, and Butragueno and Raul as an attacking partnership (alternative Pirri for Busquets)

For Hungary Grosics in goal, back 4 Buzanszky, Matrai, Meszoly, Biro (according to his reputation too - otherwise I'd have a host of possible left-back options from Lantos, through 60s players to Varga in the 80s for example), Bozsik with Gyorgy Sarosi in midfield with Hidegkuti operating in front of them, Florian Albert as right supporting forward, Puskas left supporting forward, Kocsis as centre forward, although he wasn't really used as outright centre forward and I'd not suggest he played simply as a target man type (alternative Bene for Albert)

Uruguay would be difficult but I guess it could be something like: Maspoli; J.Andrade, Santamaria, Godin, V.Andrade; Varela; Ghiggia, Scarone, Schiaffino, Francescoli; Suarez (alternative Forlan for Suarez)

And that gung-ho Portugal would be something like this maybe: Costa Pereira; Joao Domingos Pinto, Coelho, Carvalho, Dimas; Coluna, Figo, Rui Costa; C.Ronaldo, Eusebio, Futre (alternative Sousa in for Futre, to make it a magic square or a 4-1-3-2 with Rui Costa moving wider)

 

They are hardly balanced . You can't make balanced Xis trying to fit in every player. And why Pele so front? His position on the field was way deeper .

 

That Argentina team has no balance to be honest. And how do you even fit Kempes Maradona Di stefano Messi all in same lineup?

 

See, I told you we won't agree on everything mate haha! No problem anyway. I kind of see what you mean, but I always err to a team which plays football rather than spoils the game (maybe you don't disagree on that though), and Di Stefano for sure can drop into midfield often, while even Kempes could do that also. Ardiles and Redondo seems enough of a base to me, while as I say being one which mainly plays football rather than bullies opponents (but Ardiles especially could put in good challenges and was quite tenacious, while Redondo was a big guy who was hard to dispossess, at least in good form).

 

I suppose the alternative way is to show the line-up with Di Stefano more in the midfield (perhaps as a 4-2-1-2-1) or even Kempes (nominally a 4-3-3 like in the latter stages of WC 1978 although I'd say really he played more as AM at least rather than LM, and him and Ardiles didn't really play equivalent roles).

It's difficult though because the alternative to having Kempes or Batistuta in, assuming none of Messi, Di Stefano or Maradona are being left out, would be to have Di Stefano mainly as a finisher or at least as a Harry Kane 2020/21 type false 9, or otherwise use Messi himself more as the main striker/false 9 (and then the balance might be difficult from a constructive viewpoint in terms of how to fit Di Stefano and Maradona around or behind him if adding an extra midfielder, while adding a player to play from the right, like for arguments sake Caniggia, is just as attacking arguably and would Di Stefano and Messi be getting in each other's way while Maradona is restricted too much to the left too, even if he could swap over with Caniggia for variety potentially?).

 

I agree that Argentina and Netherlands will put a great battle to the eventual winner of the original 5 teams.

 

You can't, and that's the crux of the issue.

When creating an XI, Brazil have way too much depth in most areas, and not enough in the crucial central defense area, for example. Brazil could probably field 3-4 XIs with superior attacking talents to Italy or England.

A team like Argentina can probably field an XI that's comparable to Brazil because after all, there's only so many attacking positions to go around, and they have around 3-4 players who can match the best of Brazil.

I think Falcao + a defensive midfielder will need to be normalized for Brazil. It's the best way to achieve balance, then you have 4 positions left for all that attacking talent. Probably the only nation where it's not "wrong" to drop someone like Zico or Ronaldinho

 

Yeah, Netherlands have good spread of talent. I think only their RB is lacking an ATG talent? Even then, you can probably "cheat" and play Rijkaard there or something

 

Let's play a draft game.

 

France all time xi maybe stronger than Germany and maybe on par with italy's
ALthough Italy and Germany produced more amount of legendary players

 

Yeah, I think something like this, and similarly the Netherlands line-up might be closer to the best than their all-time top 50 players list would be for example.

I think the French defence would match up pretty well (and actually in that area the depth is pretty good in comparison to others I think as long as not going to extremes of numbers of players considered). The goalkeeper slightly less so, but I think Bats was pretty good (not that everyone would choose him, but if Barthez is picked it's in his best form I guess anyway for example!). In midfield they have Platini and Zidane, and the first choice line-up in general looks maybe better than the Italy and Germany teams in that area actually. Given Platini's goalscoring prowess they shouldn't be too far behind for putting the ball in the net either, although the German and Italian line-ups are probably just as good as far as that goes, or better maybe (partly depending on whether prime version Henry could be coaxed out by his 'new' team-mates like Kopa and Platini and perhaps Arsenal team-mate Pires too).

 

Brazil or Argentina whose all time xi would win in your opinion ?

 

The furthest that England ever made it in a tournament not held on home soil was a semi final in 1990. This is onde the entire history of tournament football.

England, have never, not even one single time beaten a true elite side in a tournament knockout game away from home soil. Not one single solitary time, over the e tire history of tournament football.

How in the blue hell can they be compared to these other nations? Seriously, where is the justification?

 

Just my tips:

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How to assess systems is a bit tricky. Teams could change with specific opponents in front.

Netzer, Greaves, Tigana, Scirea and Zico would be the most sensitive absences of each, for me.