I thought this might be interesting. [LINEUP-3-5-2]Twellmen, Moreno, Donovan (c), Etcheverry, Cienfuegos, Ralston, Preki, Lalas, Pope, Agoos, Howard[/LINEUP-3-5-2]
Pretty good. . .I think it leans a tad old-school. But my only changes? [LINEUP-3-5-2]Ching, Moreno, Donovan (c), Etcheverry, Cienfuegos, DeRosario, Preki, Lalas, Pope, Agoos, Howard[/LINEUP-3-5-2][/QUOTE] You can't argue the SJ/Houston Dominance for those 5-6 years.
Can you really put Lalas on an all time best 11 defenders? I'd take Robin Fraser over Lalas for sure.
I'd rate a couple players ahead of Lalas on D from an MLS playing perspective. Lubos Kubik, Ryan Nelsen, and probably Jimmy Conrad. In midfield you would have to consider GBS in the equation as well as Nowak. Mark Chung was also a player that you could consider if you factor in the length of his career and how he was consistently one of the better players. At forward you really have to think of Stern John up there. He had 44 goals in 55 games, which is just crazy. Angel also would have to be up there if you look at his strike rate. He is probably right up there with Twellman in goals per game, but he has pretty much been surrounded by crap his entire time here (up till now). I agree though that all those players listed on your guys lists are right up there as some of the best to play in MLS.
Really tough one here, do you guys who been around longer, or guys who maybe shined a bit brighter for their time here? Do we go for individual hardware & awards, good play, or titles? Short version: GK: Meola D: Pope, Fraser, Agoos M: Ralston, DeRosario, Joseph, Etcheverry, Preki F: Moreno, Donovan Coach:Arena Bench: GK: Howard D: Hejduk, Bocanegra, Conrad, Marshall, Kubik M: Armas, Cienfuegos, Nowak, Gomez F: Cunningham, McBride Assisant Coach: Schmid Close but no cigar: Friedel, Onstad, Cannon, Thornton, Balboa, Segares, Nelsen, Dooley, Valderrama, Schelotto, Chung, O'Brien, Spencer, Twellman, Ruiz, John, Kreis. And some guys aren't done yet (GBS, Marshall, Cunningham) and could move up a bit. Long Version Goalkeeper Very spread out. Only 3 have been on the Best XI more than once (Thornton, Howard, Onstad). Only 3 have won GK of the Year more than once (Thornton, Onstad, Cannon). Meola is the only GK to win an MVP. Brad Friedel is also worth a mention. Zenga. Of the greatest teams around: 1996-'99 DC, 1998-2003 Fire; 1998-2003 Galaxy, Dyno/Quakes, + the current Crew seem like the best teams of all-time, and Onstad is really the only elite keeper on the list. For me, I go for Meola. Defender Again, really hard to judge by individual awards, as they only take 3 defenders for best XI teams, and the fact that some really good defenders never made a best XI (Balboa, Hejduk, Segares) kind of lessens the award in my mind, still, here the list of those who made the list more than once: 5: Robin Fraser (2 DOY awards) 4: Eddie Pope (1 DOY), Jimmy Conrad (1 DOY) 3: Jeff Agoos (1 DOY), 2: Thomas Dooley, Lubos Kubik (1 DOY), Grey Vanney, Carlos Bocanegra (2 DOY), Ryan Nelsen, Chad Marshall (2 DOY). 1: Doyle, Vermes, Lalas, Llamosa, Abright, Califf, Boswell, Parkhurst, Bornstein, Soumare, Conde, Alvarez, Gough, Barrett, Burciaga Jr, Robinson. 0: Balboa, Hejduk, Segares The other DOY's who have one Best XI are Doyle, Vermes, Boswell, and Parkhurst I think these are your contenders. For me, I think Fraser, Pope, and Agoos are the locks. Bocanegra next (Pope at RB, Agoos LB, Fraser/Boca in the middle). The first three all have Shields, DOY's, and MLS Cup. Multiples in most cases. I'm tempted to go for a Crew heavy bench: Hejduk (RB), Marshall (2 DOY), Dooley. Kubic, Nelsen, Segares, and Lalas are also up there. But since I'll need the space in MF, I'll go: Pope, Fraser, Agoos in a back 3. Midfield Preki (2 MVPs, 2 Scoring Titles, 4 Best XI's) and Marco Etcheverry (4 Best XI's, all those titles with DC) are automatics in my book. So what to do with the rest? Where to play Donovan is an issue, but I'll put him up front (as the forward crop is a bit weaker and more spread out). Got to have 1 DM, and it is between Armas (5 Best XI's) and Joseph (4). I'll go with Joseph, despite the lack of titles (boy, they were close often enough). For the rest, I'll take DeRo and Ralston. Guys like Cienfuegos, Valderrama, Chung, Armas, Nowak, Gomez, Dempsey, and Schelotto merit consideration, as do guys who were cogs in great teams but didn't get the individual honors (Harkes, Sanneh w/ DC). Here's a best XI rundown of MF's: 5: Chris Armas 4: Etcheverry, Preki, DeRosario, Joseph 3: Cienfuegos, Valderrama, Chung, Nowak, Ralston, Gomez 2: O'Brien, Dempsey, Schelotto, Donovan (plus 1 as a F) 1: Donadoni, Lewis, Stoitchkov, Mastroeni, Pareja, Ekelund, Beasley, Gaven, Zavagnin, Guevara (MVP and scoring titles), Clark, Mapp, Olsen, Kljestan, Blanco, Rogers, Holden, Ljungberg. In terms of assist leaders: 3: Ralston 2: Etcheverry, Valderrama 1: Serna, Wilmar Perez, Preki, Moreno, DeRosario, Cooke, Schelotto, Cummings, Davis. -------------------------- Forward Up top, it is really spread out, like at GK. Only Preki, Twellman, and Cunningham have won the official scoring title more than once. And it was based on points (G = 2, A = 1) until 2004, and just the most goals after, so it kind of screws it up. In terms of scoring goals, six players have led the league twice: Roy Lassiter, and Stern John (though one time for each included a three way tie between them and Jason Kreis); Carlos Ruiz (once in a tie with Twellman), Taylor Twellman (once in a tie w/ Ruiz), and the only may to lead the league in goals scored two times by his own self = Jeff Cunningham. Guys who have done it once: Jaime Moreno, Kreis, Diallo, Chacon, Eddie Johnson, Brian Ching, Luciano Emilio, Landon Donovan. In terms of the points champion, it is a bit simpler, three men have done it twice: Preki, Twellman, and Cunningham. Other champs: Lassiter, John, Kreis, Diallo, Chacon, Guevara, Noonan (which will surprise many), Angel, Donovan. Here is the best XI list: 5: Moreno 3: Cunningham 2: Spencer (1 as M/F), Twellman, 1: Donovan (+2 as a M), Lassiter, Hurtado, Cerritos, Jones, John, Kreis, Diallo, Mathis, Chacon, Serna, Ruiz, Razov, Ching, Emilio, Angel, Cooper 0: McBride Those are the contenders. I'll go Moreno and Landon. They both have lots of hardware, too. MVP's may be a factor for some, Preki is the only 2 time winner, here the rest of the list: Valderrama, Etcheverry, Kreis, Meola, Chacon, Ruiz, Guevara, Twellman, Gomez, Emilio, Schelotto, Donovan.
I think Kubik was the best defender MLS ever had, but played - what - only two seasons? I think there's got to be some level of longetivity here. I could be flexible, but I think any player on MLS All-Time best 11 had to be in the league for 5 years. Otherwise, that Danish forward who played one season in KC has to be in the mix. Nowak is in a similar situation. When he was healthy, I think he was the best central midfielder in MLS of all-time. But he was never healthy and didn't play that many years in MLS.
I think everybody is overrating Dero. He's been a good player, but he benefitted from being on fantastic overall teams. I think that he's a slightly better than journeyman player that's turned in a couple clutch performances in highly visible games. Go look at his stats. He's had 3 years out of 10 in MLS that are better than mediocre.
GK: Meola DF: Pope, Nelsen, Fraser MID: Ralston, Preki, Etcheverry, Joseph, Donovan FWD: Moreno, Kreis I agree with the previous poster that DeRo is being overrated.
I'd put Zach Thornton ahead of Tony Meola. They both came into the league about the same time, Thornton's won more awards than Meola, his statistics are better, he's played longer.
Meola was absolutely amazing. Statistics are all fine and dandy, but how long have you been watching the league?
This is a very good list, but Hartman owns the stats, so he would get my nod over Meola. Also, El Pibe would have to be on the list. Forward: Lassiter, Cunningham, Graziani and several others deserve consideration. Might as well put Ruiz in the mix while we're at it. When he was good, he was very good.
Regular Season 1998-2002 Code: Player GP GS MIN G A Peter Nowak 114 114 9,740 26 48 Playoffs 1998-2002 Code: Player GP GS MIN G A Peter Nowk 20 20 1,651 3 10
Since 1996. You obviously don't explore the team forums that often, I'm an extremely knowledgeable person about the league and generate pretty factual statements / opinions when I post. How ever this one, maybe not so much. And you are correct, basing a player by stats is blasphemy. But on a success rate and what he's ment to the team and fan base, I'd put Thornton ahead of Meola. Meola spent 98-99,01 & 04 to injury. Meola lost his job to Bo Oshoniyi in 2004. Now the same argument could be made about Thornton/Ring in Chicago. Meola has been known to be an egotistical jack ass in the locker room. I'd take a subliminal team player over a egotistical jack ass. On a success/achievement rate, Cannon, Onstad, Thornton, even Tom Presthus to a degree have achieved more than Meola.
Well I never knew that Meola was such an ass, but even if I did I don't think it would have affected my decision all that much. And FWIW, Oshoniyi was pretty damn good in 2004 at a point when Meola was in the twilight of his career. It all depends I guess on how much you factor longevity into the equation.
Yeah thats really true in all aspects. As much grief people give against Oshoniyi, he was in my opinion a pretty good keeper. Top 5 maybe not, top 10 easily.