All-Time Greatest Players In Ten Category

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Remark* The honourable mention for players are too hard to be ranked in basic rating due to career effects of disappearances .




    The Greatest Goalkeepers of All-Time


    1. Lev Yashin
    2. Dino Zoff
    3. Gianluigi Buffon
    4. Gordon Banks
    5. Peter Schmeichel
    6. Ricardo Zamora
    7. Sepp Maier
    8. Oliver Kahn
    9. Peter Shilton
    10. Rinat Dasaev
    11. Amadeo Carrizo
    12. Ubaldo Fillol
    13. Ladislao Mazurkiewicz
    14. Frantisek Planicka
    15. Patt Jennings
    16. Vladimir Beara
    17. Gilmar
    18. Iker Casillas
    19. Harald Schumaccher
    20. Edwin Van Der Sar
    21. Michel Preud'Homme
    22. Jean Marie-Pfaff
    23. Giampiero Combi
    24. Jurgen Croy
    25. Gyula Grosics
    26. Walter Zenga
    27. Rudolph Hiden
    28. Jose Luis Chilavert
    29. Jose Angel Iribar
    30. Ivo Viktor
    31. Roque Maspoli
    32. Neville Southall
    33. Andreas Kopke
    34. Hans Tilkowski
    35. Antonio Ramallets
    36. Ray Clemence
    37. Ronnie Hellstrom
    38. Gianluca Pagluica
    39. Frank Swift
    40. Thomas Ravelli
    41. Samuel Hardy
    42. Andoni Zubuzarreta
    43. Jan Tomaszewski
    44. Peter Cech
    45. Hans Van Breukelen
    46. Luis Arconada
    47. Evhen Rudakov
    48. Emerson Leao
    49. Enrico Albertosi
    50. Walter Zeman

    Honourable Mention : Bert Trautmann


    Substitution List

    Thomas N'kono
    Antonio Carbajal
    Sergio Livingstone
    Angelo Peruzzi
    Rogelio Dominguez
    Alexei Khomitch
    Villiam Schrojf
    Fabien Barthez
    Andres Mazali
    Lorenzo Buffon
    Harry Gregg
    Claudio Taffarel
    Antonio Roma
    Francesco Toldo
    Giuliano Sarti
    Jan Van Beveren


    _________________________________________________________


    The Greatest Central Defenders of All-Time


    1. Franz Beckenbauer
    2. Franco Baresi
    3. Bobby Moore
    4. Gaetano Scirea
    5. Daniel Passarella
    6. Elais Figueroa
    7. Giuseppe Bergomi
    8. Alessandro Nesta
    9. Ruud Krol
    10. Jose Santamaria
    11. Fabio Cannavaro
    12. Jose Nasazzi
    13. Hector Chumpitaz
    14. Jurgen Kohler
    15. Alan Hansen
    16. Domingos Da Guia
    17. Jacinto Quincoces
    18. Marcell Desailly
    19. Laurent Blanc
    20. Ronald Koeman
    21. Velibor Vasovic
    22. Billy Wright
    23. Karlheinz Forster
    24. Claudio Gentile
    25. Fernando Hierro
    26. Jaap Stam
    27. Ciro Ferrara
    28. Albert Shesternev
    29. Oscar Ruggeri
    30. Marius Tresor
    31. Murtaz Khurtsilava
    32. Virginio Rosetta
    33. Gheorghe Popescu
    34. Alessandro Costacurta
    35. Jan Popluhar
    36. Germano
    37. Robert Perfumo
    38. Luis Perreira
    39. Morten Olsen
    40. Niel Flanklin
    41. Reinhold Munzenburg
    42. John Terry
    43. Willi Schulz
    44. Robert Jonquet
    45. Nemanja Vidic
    46. Hans Jurgen Dorner
    47. Wladislaw Zmuda
    48. Pietro Vierchowod
    49. Bruno Pezzey
    50. Pietro Rava


    Honourable Mention : Matthias Sammer, Bob Crompton


    Substitution List
    Humberto Coelho
    Cor Van De Hart
    Ernst Happel
    Roberto Ayala
    Rune Bratseth
    Rio Ferdinand
    Wolfgang Weber
    Alexandru Apolzan
    Toni Adams
    Severino Minelli
    Sami Hyypia
    Lucio


    _____________________________________________________________



    The Greatest Defensive Laterals of All-Time


    1. Paolo Maldini
    2. Giacinto Facchetti
    3. Nilton Santos
    4. Djalma Santos
    5. Carlos Alberto
    6. Karlheinz Schnellinger
    7. Lilian Thuram
    8. Berti Vogts
    9. Roberto Carlos
    10. Andreas Brehme
    11. Javier Zanetti
    12. Antononio Cabrini
    13. Marcos Cafu
    14. Branco Zebec
    15. Silvio Marzolini
    16. Paul Breitner
    17. Paul Janes
    18. Renzo De Vecchi
    19. Manuel Amoros
    20. Leovegildo Junior
    21. Hans Peter Briegel
    22. Manfred Kaltz
    23. Leandro Ferreira
    24. Sergio Cervato
    25. Jose Antonio Camacho
    26. Bixente Lizarazu
    27. Danny Mcgrain
    28. Victor Rodriguez Andrade
    29. Eddie Hapgood
    30. Jorginho
    31. Eric Gerets
    32. Branko Stankovic
    33. Joan Segarra
    34. Marinho Chagas
    35. Carlos Sosa
    36. Maicon
    37. Tarcisio Burgnich
    38. Rafael Gordillo
    39. Fahrudin Jusufi
    40. Luigi Allemandi
    41. Jimmy Armfield
    42. Gianluca Zambrotta
    43. Nelinho
    44. Luis Eyzaguirre
    45. Ray Wilson
    46. Anatoliy Demyanenko
    47. Vladimir Bessonov
    48. Erik Nilsson
    49. Christian Panucci
    50. Schubert Gambetta


    Honourable Mention : Armand Swartenbroeks


    Substitution List

    Erich Juskowiak
    Horst-Dieter Hottges
    Orvar Bergmark
    Francisco Arce
    Arthur Correia
    Roger Marche
    Stefan Reuter
    Mauro Tassotti
    Wim Suurbier
    Phil Neal
    Karoly Fogl
    Josef Fogl
    Juan Pablo Sorin
    Daniel Alves
    Ashley Cole
    Roger Bryne


    _____________________________________________________________



    The Greatest Defensive Midfielders of All-Time


    1. Lothar Matthaus
    2. Frank Rijkaard
    3. Jose Leandro Andrade
    4. Ernest Ocwirk
    5. Luis Monti
    6. Fernando Redondo
    7. Obdulio Varela
    8. Horst Szymaniak
    9. Jean Tigana
    10. Marco Tardelli
    11. Jose Pirri
    12. Nestor Rossi
    13. Varely Voronin
    14. Roy Keane
    15. Dave Mackay
    16. Toninho Cerezo
    17. Patrice Vieira
    18. Danilo Alvim
    19. Edgar Davids
    20. Graeme Souness
    21. Zlatko Cajkovski
    22. Josef Smistik
    23. Clodoaldo
    24. Mikael Essien
    25. Joseph Guardiola
    26. Karel Pesek Kada
    27. Uli Stielike
    28. Claude Makelele
    29. Zito
    30. Romeo Benetti
    31. Antonio Rattin
    32. David Meiklejohn
    33. Jose Carlos Bauer
    34. Didier Deschamps
    35. Mauro Silva
    36. Svatopluk Pluskal
    37. Nils Middelboe
    38. Emlyn Hughes
    39. Michele Andreolo
    40. Ernest Needham
    41. Emerson Ferreira
    42. Carlos Dunga
    43. Ivan Gennaro Gattuso
    44. Esteban Cambiasso
    45. Andreas Kupfer
    46. Alex Raisbeck
    47. Arie Haan
    48. Luis Fernandez
    49. Jose Velasquez
    50. Alemao


    Honourable Mention : Duncan Edwards

    Substitution List

    Ernesto Lazzatti
    Franky Van Der Elst
    John Greig
    Victor Munoz
    Javier Mascherano
    Attilio Ferraris
    Diego Simeone
    Victor Benitez
    Emmanouel Petit


    ___________________________________________________________


    The Greatest Central Midfielders of All-Time


    1. Didi
    3. Luis Suarez Miramontes
    4. Jozsef Bozsik
    5. Falcao
    6. Josef Masopust
    7. Gerson
    8. Xavi Hernandez
    9. Willem Van Hanegem
    10. Johan Neeskens
    11. Danny Blanchflower
    12. Fritz Szepan
    13. Mario Coluna
    14. Igor Netto
    15. Paul Breitner
    16. Gerhard Hanappi
    17. Bryan Robson
    18. Billy Bremner
    19. Steven Gerrard
    20. Herbert Prohaska
    21. Andrea Pirlo
    22. Juan Sebastian Veron
    23. Giancarlo Antognoni
    24. Jim Baxter
    25. Osvaldo Ardiles
    26. Stefan Effenberg
    27. Michael Ballack
    28. Frank Lampard
    29. Johnny Giles
    30. Clarence Seedorf
    31. Zvonimir Boban
    32. Branko Oblak
    33. Karl Koller
    34. Colin Bell
    35. Wilfried Van Moer
    36. Carlos Valderrama
    37. Manuel Fleitas Solich
    38. Bo Larsson
    39. Alan Ball
    40. Paulo Cesar Carpegiani
    41. Vladimir Muntyan
    42. Dino Sani
    43. Luis Enrique
    44. Luis Del Sol
    45. Xabi Alonso
    46. Rainer Bonhof
    47. Walter Nausch
    48. Gaizka Mendieta
    49. Paolo Sousa
    50. Soren Lerby


    Substitution List

    Jan Molby
    Demetrio Albertini
    Agostino Di Bartolomeo
    Claudio Marangoni
    Pablo Bengoechea
    Rene Petit
    Gary Mcalister
    Eusebio Castigliano



    ____________________________________________________________



    The Greatest Wingers of All-Time


    1. Garrincha
    2. George Best
    3. Stanley Matthews
    4. Jairzinho
    5. Dragan Dzajic
    6. Luis Figo
    7. Francisco Gento
    8. Tom Finney
    9. Julinho
    10. Kurt Hamrin
    11. Zoltan Czibor
    12. Raimundo Orsi
    13. Kalman Konrad
    14. Felix Loustau
    15. Ryan Giggs
    16. Bruno Conti
    17. Helmut Rahn
    18. Coen Moulijn
    19. Omar Corbatta
    20. Alan Morton
    21. Jimmy Johnstone
    22. Carlos Peucelle
    23. Estanlislao Basora
    24. Billy Meredith
    25. Pepe
    26. Canhoteiro
    27. Grzegorz Lato
    28. Piet Kaizer
    29. Juan Joya
    30. Karl Aage Praest
    31. Enrique Garcia
    32. Hans Schafer
    33. David Beckham
    34. Giampiero Boniperti
    35. Lennart Skoglund
    36. Rene Houseman
    37. Robert Pires
    38. Antonin Puc
    39. Cliff Bastin
    40. Leonel Sanchez
    41. Amancio Amaro
    42. Pierre Littbarski
    43. Brian Laudrup
    44. Franck Ribery
    45. Jose Augusto
    46. Franco Causio
    47. Cliff Jones
    48. David Ginola
    49. Jurgen Grabowski
    50. Mikhail Meskhi



    Substitution List

    John Barnes
    Arjen Robben
    Johnny Rep
    Luis Cubilla
    Marc Overmars
    Enrique Hormazabal
    Cris Waddle
    Eder
    Rogerio Pipi
    Robert Gadocha
    Billy Liddell
    Michel Gonzalez
    Alcides Ghiggia
    Fernando Chalana
    Ariel Ortega
    Paulo Futre
    Jair Da Costa
    Augustin Gainza
    Mario Corso
    Gino Colaussi
    Bora Kostic



    ____________________________________________________________



    The Greatest Basic Playmakers Of All-Time


    1. Michel Platini
    2. Zinedine Zidane
    3. Bobby Charlton
    4. Rivelino
    5. Gianni Rivera
    6. Raymond Kopa
    7. Nils Liedholm
    8. Michael Laudrup
    9. Socrates
    10. Wolfgang Overath
    11. Gheorghe Hagi
    12. Gunther Netzer
    13. Kazimierz Deyna
    14. Juan Roman Riquelme
    15. Rui Costa
    16. Pavel Nedved
    17. Larbi Benbarek
    18. Ricardo Bochini
    19. Nicolae Dobrin
    20. Bernd Schuster
    21. Ademir Da Guia
    22. Alex James
    23. Cesar Cueto
    24. Dragan Stojkovic
    25. Johnny Haynes
    26. Alain Giresse
    27. Glenn Hoddle
    28. Helmut Haller
    29. Liam Brady
    30. Dragoslav Sekularac
    31. Safet Susic
    32. Thomas Haessler
    33. Andreas Ineista
    34. Paul Scholes
    35. Josep Samitier
    36. Julio Cesar Romero
    37. Paul Gascoigne
    38. Andreas Moller
    39. Enzo Scifo
    40. Wesley Sneijder
    41. Cesc Fabrekas
    42. Krassimir Balakov
    43. Fyordor Cherenkov
    44. Joseph Jurion
    45. David Kipiani
    46. Dimitar Yakimov
    47. Ernesto Grillo
    48. Lajos Detari
    49. Illie Balaci
    50. Robert Prosinecki



    Substitution List

    David Platt
    Heinz Flohe
    Martin Peters
    Dirceu Gimaraes
    Asgier Sigurvinsson
    Miguel Brindisi
    Antonin Panenka
    Dirceu Lopes
    Paolo Cesar Caju
    Luis De La Fuente
    Kee Rijvers



    __________________________________________________________



    The Greatest Second Strikers of All-Time


    1. Diego Maradona
    2. Johan Cruyff
    3. Alfredo Di Stefano
    4. Zico
    5. Jose Manuel Moreno
    6. Ruud Gullit
    7. Zizinho
    8. Adolfo Pedernera
    9. Valentino Mazzola
    10. Fritz Walter
    11. Ronaldinho
    12. Juan Alberto Schiaffino
    13. Rivaldo
    14. Omar Sivori
    15. Teofilo Cubillas
    16. Hector Scarone
    17. Sandro Mazzola
    18. Enzo Francescoli
    19. Zbigniew Boniek
    20. Nandor Hidegkuti
    21. Antonio Sastre
    22. Kenny Dalglish
    23. Stjepan Bobek
    24. Pedro Rocha
    25. Kevin Keegan
    26. Bernard Vukas
    27. Francesco Totti
    28. Kaka
    29. Rinaldo Martino
    30. Dejan Savicevic
    31. Gyorgi Orth
    32. Aurelio Gonzalez
    33. Allan Simonsen
    34. Jair Da Rosa
    35. Raich Carter
    36. Valentin Ivaov
    37. Jan Ceulemans
    38. Gunnar Gren
    39. Hristo Bonev
    40. Roger Piantoni
    41. Manuel Ferreira
    42. Gianfranco Zola
    43. Hugo Sotil
    44. Giovanni Ferrari
    45. Alberto Terry
    46. Rajko Mitic
    47. Jose Piendibene
    48. Karl Decker
    49. Igor Belanov
    50. Jorge Alberto Gonzalez


    Honourable Mention : Walter Gomez


    Substitution List

    Wilf Mannion
    Abedi Pele
    Angel Romano
    Klaus Allofs
    Youri Djorkaeff
    Ivor Allchurch
    Norberto Mendez
    Jari Litmanen
    Ermindo Onega
    Tibor Nyilasi
    Osei Kofi
    Dorval
    Edvaldo Dida
    Luliu Bodola
    Roberto Mancini
    Willy Van De Kuijlen
    Peter Palotas
    Hector Rial
    Humberto Maschio
    Henning Jensen



    _________________________________________________________



    The Greatest Forwards of All-Time


    1. Pele
    2. Ferenc Puskas
    3. Eusebio
    4. Giuseppe Meazza
    5. Roberto Baggio
    6. Matthias Sindelar
    7. Karlheinz Rummenigge
    8. Leonidas Da Silva
    9. Lionel Messi
    10. Cristiano Ronaldo
    11. Gyorgi Sarosi
    12. Laszlo Kubala
    13. Thierry Henry
    14. Hristo Stoichkov
    15. Tostao
    16. Florian Albert
    17. Dennis Bergkamp
    18. Luigi Riva
    19. Ademir De Menezes
    20. Oleg Blokhin
    21. Raul Gonzalez
    22. George Weah
    23. Angel Labruna
    24. Paul Van Himst
    25. Faas Wilkes
    26. Rob Rensenbrink
    27. Manuel Seoane
    28. Rene Pontoni
    29. Gyula Zsengeller
    30. Mario Kempes
    31. Ferenc Bene
    32. Ernest Willimowski
    33. Alessandro Del Piero
    34. Bebeto
    35. Ernest Kuzorra
    36. Oldrich Nejedly
    37. Alberto Ohaco
    38. Eric Cantona
    39. Anton Schall
    40. Zlatan Ibrahimovic
    41. Abe Lenstra
    42. David Villa
    43. Preben Elkjaer
    44. Hughie Gallagher
    45. Max Morlock
    46. Emilio Butragueno
    47. Georgi Asparuhov
    48. Severino Varela
    49. Ernest Pohl
    50. Lajos Tichy

    Honurable Mention : Grigory Fedotov, Milos Milutinovic, Eduard Streltsov


    Substitution List

    **********
    Amarildo
    Henri Coppens
    Milan Galic
    Giuseppe Signori
    Quarentinha
    Vivian Woodward
    Andre Abegglen
    Wayne Rooney
    Charlie Buchan
    Bernard Voorhoof
    Alejandro Morera
    Francisco Varallo
    Predrag Mijatovic
    Nikita Simonyan
    John Angelo Hansen
    Dragan Jovanovic
    Istvan Nyers
    Salif Keita
    Stephan Dobay
    Stephan Chapuisat
    Jupp Heynckes


    __________________________________________________________



    The Greatest Target Strikers of All-Time


    1. Gerd Muller
    2. Ronaldo
    3. Marco Van Basten
    4. Romario
    5. Sandor Kocsis
    6. Uwe Seeler
    7. Gunnar Nordahl
    8. Arsenio Erico
    9. Dixie Dean
    10. Josef Bican
    11. Gabriel Batistuta
    12. Jimmy Greaves
    13. Just Fontaine
    14. Telmo Zarra
    15. Ferenc Deak
    16. Ruud Van Nistelrooy
    17. Alberto Spencer
    18. Andriy Shevchenko
    19. Denis Law
    20. Silvio Piola
    21. Jurgen Klinsmann
    22. Hugo Sanchez
    23. Jean Pierre Papin
    24. Fernando Peyroteo
    25. Imre Schlosser
    26. Luis Artime
    27. Gary Lineker
    28. Arthur Friedenreich
    29. Christian Vieri
    30. Isidro Langara
    31. Careca
    32. Wlodzimerz Lubanski
    33. Jimmy Mcgrory
    34. Hernan Crespo
    35. Alan Shearer
    36. Rudi Voller
    37. Jose Altafini
    38. Franz Binder
    39. Samuel Eto'o
    40. Ian Rush
    41. Pedro Petrone
    42. David Trezeguet
    43. Hans Krankl
    44. Reinaldo
    45. Jose Sanfilippo
    46. Teodoro Fernandez
    47. Atilio Garcia
    48. Heleno De Freitas
    49. Davor Suker
    50. Nat Lofthouse


    Honourable Mention : Tommy Lawton, Paolo Rossi

    Substitution List

    Raymond Braine
    Michael Owen
    Didier Drogba
    Darko Pancev
    Richard Hofmann
    Bernabe Ferreyra
    Roberto Bettega
    Jozsef Takacs
    Stan Mortensen
    Herminio Masantonio
    Roberto Dinamite
    Fernando Morena
    Coutinho
    Thadee Cisowski
    Harald Nielsen
    Jose Aguas
    Pauli Jorgensen
    Beb Bakhuys
    Ferenc Szusza
    Patrick Kluivert
    Vava
    Henrik Larsson
    Ruud Geels
    Filippo Inzaghi
    Diego Forlan
     
  2. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Props on your historical knowledge, but how you rank current day players against each other remains highly bizarre.

    Why Hernan Crespo over Samuel Eto'o, Rui Costa over Pavel Nedved?
    Ballack is better than Lampard?
     
  3. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I rank base on cumulatove performance in all level of competition (Domestic Club, International Club and National Team). For deep detail please visit http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=248905.


    Eto'o is more successful but I consider ability level of Crespo is clearly better. Nedved is better than Rui Costa in club career but not by much while Rui Costa is signifiantly better than Nedved in NT career.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Why is Henry ranked above the likes of Labruna and Blokhin? And as said earlier, I also disagree with the gap between Henry and Bergkamp.

    Furthermore, It is peculiar that you use a point system to rank players from the 1950s of which hardly any material exist. Take for example the Brazil 1950 team with Jair, Ademir and Zizinho. In works I've read it is difficult to differentiate between the respective qualities of these three, although Zizinho has the greatest status, let alone that you can devise a point system to rank them vis-a-vis other greats of other eras.
     
  5. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Ademir scored just 75 percent in regional Brazilian league as a center forward in the 1940s is way not impressive, is one of evidences he is not in the level of Zizinho who is traditionally regarded by many Brazilian experts as the better player than Rivelino.

    Labruna scored just 60 percent in Argentinian league and 17 goals in 37 games for Argentina is a lot lower than standard ofArgentinian strikers at that time (Pontoni 19 goals in 19 games in example)

    Bergkamp is a lot slower than Henry. His scoring record with Arsenal is way too low due to the fact that scoring is his main duty. He also have a failure years in the period he should reach his prime at Inter Milan while Henry was failure at Juventus due to be not play in his best position.

    Henry is a better technical player and slightly a better asister than Blokhin.
     
  6. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Could you post your detailed breakdown for each of those players please?


    Also how do you plan to apply your 'Importance Degree Of Skills For Football Roles' to player who played in the 30s?
     
  7. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Like I said every list is controversial to certain degrees ...

    I gave Dearman (and others like Comme ... with their own lists ) full credits for his effort in research and time
     
  8. tdv123

    tdv123 New Member

    Jul 14, 2007
    I think Serginho fromer Milan & Sao Paulo player deserves a mention in "The Greatest Defensive Laterals of All-Time" list.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Who had higher averages in his era?

    True.

    The problem is that forwards do sometimes more than just scoring goals. Bergkamp said during WC1994, when he played well and journalists asked why he played so bad at Inter, "I'm a creator and not a goal-scorer, I prefer to seek the combination and through-pass instead of dribbling and poaching."

    For the record: I do not see Henry as belonging to a lower class than Bergkamp, but this is again way to simple. As second-striker in a 4-4-2 system it depends much on the type of striking partner one has. There are types who let you score goals and there are types who let you make assists.

    This is inconsistent reasoning. Henry was until his career at Arsenal a winger and played hence not out of position.

    An argument can also be made that Bergkamp played at Inter out of position too by the way. When he moved to Arsenal, he hinted towards that. On the other hand, many critics had some doubts about the mental stability of Bergkamp. For example, Bergkamp complained that the Italian press invaded his private-life and this was in turn seen as a sign of psychological instability.

    Blokhin was way more important for his teams I think.
     
  10. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    No more higher scoring stats doesn't mean player is the very top-class. However, Ferenc Deak scored in 1.35 goal ratio in hungarian league is way much better. The 1940s Brazilian strikers are not much outstanding except Heleno De Freitas (0.89 Goal ratio and playerd in the same league and same era, is still clearly better than Ademir). In the era of Ademir, football was played by just twice defenders and none of Brazilians defenders in that period are not become a famous legend finally. His goal ratio in overall club career is actually 72 percent (365 goals in 506 games). He played as left-winger just a season in 1940 so that year didn't significantly impact to his goalscoring record. Ademir is an absolute legend in Brazil national team but his prime is not long enough to rate so high.





    I understand so why I have set table of importance skill of football role. In overall rating, Henry is clearly better in skill. Anyway, I actually rate players base on performance. Many superior players in skill are ranked lower than group of inferior skillful players.


    It doesn't much matter when Bergkamp scored not many goals for Arsenal team due to devisibility of the team but If Bergkamp scored more goals, Arsenal is surely a much better record of result.


    The strong reason of Bergkamp failure years is the standard of Series A in his time that majoirt of attacking foreigners were not successful. People are right to believe Henry could be failure as well if played in that same league and the same time. However, to be the greatest, you have to avoid the situation you are disadvatange as possiblea and in contrary try to player in the most suitable circumstance of yours, This is a basic key to acheive in every career.


    For their nation, I think Blokhin is more outstanding but it is partly because surround by lower-class teammates. Honesty, I think Blokhin beat defenders with his speed very much while Henry could do it well in both speed combine with technique.


    Puck, I am very curious about level of amateur Dutch football league in Abe Lenstra era. Did Lenstra play football just as a hobby ? and he played as inside-forward or center-forward in club and NT career ?
     
  11. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Details of skill and performance rating are actually posted for top 50 players in seven category. You can find the completed series in http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=251095

    This is the greatest ever list http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=247416

    The 1930s players are applied in 'Importance Degree Of Skills For Football Roles' by "Circumstance Prevention"
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Strongly disagree. Again, Henry was his equal but he was not equally skillful. Funnily, when Henry was asked what the best player was with whom he played with, he answered Bergkamp and not Zidane, Messi or Ronaldinho.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zmnCjkmT2A&feature=player_detailpage#t=717s"]Thierry Henry in New York - SSN special report - part 1 - YouTube[/ame]
    (11:58)

    This is of the category "if Buffon had stopped all balls then..."

    The fact is though that Bergkamp was promised that Inter would go on to play a more attacking concept, that is why he choose Internazionale. That promise was broken, among other reasons. You're free to call it a failure, I agree, although some softening things can be said.
    In the end, Bergkamp was axed in Milan because he scored not enough goals and they used him as a striker, but he wasn't a striker. And had a bad relationship with fellow attacker Ruben Sosa too.
     
  13. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Interesting list, and props on the effort even though I do not agree with quite few instances of ordering. Also one question, how did you differentiate between the forwards and the second strikers?
     
  14. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Actually I would be interested to see what numbers you used for Crespo v Eto'o and Nedved v Rui Costa.

    And how Dani Alves doesn't make the Top 50 fullbacks also remains a mystery to me.
    But Jorginho sits there at #30 :p - don't get manipulated by Brazilian posters propaganda hatin' on Dani Alves for never playing well in Brazil.

    Jorginho was rated IC/WC once each by Kicker during his time in Germany, meanwhile Dani Alves is among the top rated PLAYERS (not just defenders) in La Liga by Don Balon for several years, makes ESM team of the month nearly each time, puts up amazing offensive stats and is one of the most important players for one of the most successful teams of the last decades.
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Not that I disagree with you but do you have that source? And where?
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Where did you read that? As far as I know, Dani Alves has overtaken Maicon on that position and that was no easy feat. Maicon was the starter for Brazil in 2010WC. Of course, Maicon has also declined a bit in shape.
     
  17. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    With 'Brazilian propaganda' I was talking about a few Brazilian posters on xtratime who seem to praise Jorginho without any particular reasons and bash Dani Alves.
     
  18. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
  19. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    I am always objective opinions to overrate technical defender lack of high level defensive skill. In example, when people said Roberto Carlos is by far better than Cannavaro, it is not fair because they will rate technical skill too much better than defensive skill for defenders (if rate this between attackers and defenders, it is more reasonable). Daniel Alves' defensive quality is too bad, Barca lost many goals due to his loose position and he doesn't have level of physcial strong a great tackle like many defenders have. His offensive performance is very good. The same case as Serginho who is very good in technique but he is not a Milan legend finally because wasn't good in his main duty.
     
  20. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    I thought you rate players based on performance, not on how wellrounded they are.


    The same old nonsense that stays alive.
    Just because a player is beyond amazing offensively and prone to mistakes at defense doesn't mean his overall play can't be more effective than a player who is good at D and O.

    You can't just rate each wingbacks D and O, add the numbers together and deterimine that way who was better. Total nonsense.

    Doesn't it make sense that the offense that someone like Roberto Carlos or Dani Alves provide outweight the minimal better defense of Jorginho?

    They is a reason that Roberto Carlos and Dani Alves are/were integral parts on multiple CL winning teams and Jorginho was just some pretty good player one some decent - good clubs.

    Yeah I see people calling me out and saying it's easy to shine for that FCB team. Remember where Alves played before?
    Sevilla, two UEFA Cups earning MVP honors as a RIGHT BACK.

    Also the same case for Serginho? Are you freakin kidding me? He has 10 caps ffs naming him alongside Dani Alves is a disgrace.

    I realize there is some active player stigma looking at Messi's and CR's ranking, maybe you'll understand his greatness when he's retired.
     
  21. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Dearman you should consider Karl Sesta, Adolf Vogl, lessen the gap between Sindelar and Schall, downrank Prohaska imo.
     
  22. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    Roberto Carlos is not a good defensive player but he is still strong enough as a defender. Daniel Alves' qualification should be more midfielder and anyway he played as defender. For the primary qualification of defender, Alves doesn't have any top-class skill are position, tackle and even strength - stamina. . I am not consider just a few mistake on him but overall performance in defensive game is not done effectively enough.

    Jorginho is clearly much better than Daniel Alves in defensive quality.

    The same case between Daniel Alves and Serginho is reffered to style of player not overall performance.
     
  23. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Would you care to reply to any of the points I made other than going on with your 'Dani Alves not good in defensive ability' nonsense?

    Do you want to find out who really was the better player, helping teams to win or continue to use your made up rating criteria that couldn't be farther from reality how to properly assess the effectiveness of a player?
     
  24. Dearman

    Dearman Member

    Red Star Belgrade
    Argentina
    Feb 24, 2010
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Nat'l Team:
    Thailand
    As you are typing this kind of sentence, you are being base on your own criteria as well and it is much far from reality because you are not even explain your criteria enough.

    Surely my criteria is in the reality because it is considerd base on level of importance in each duty of players' position. You refer that Alves help the team to win but football is a teamwork and Alves is several times a part for Barcelona losing goal so you have to consider player base on individual performance not result of game. If Alves played in 3-5-2 system, he would have a better rating but in the 4-4-2 system, defensive duty is still a main function of his his duty.

    To clarify the rating, Alves is still defender in 4-4-2 system and I separate to ratio defensive 60 offensive 40. In case of wing-back in 3-5-2 system, it will be 50-50. I give 7.8 point for Alves defensive quality and 8 in offensive quality and Total Point 7.9. In example compare to Eric Gerets who was a full-back, I give defensive 75 percent (8.7 point) and offensive 25 percent (7 Point) Total Point 8.3.

    Some rate technical defender to be better than natural defender as the offensive skills are always considered to be higher level than defensive skill but in the same logic, if defensive skill is less important and defender likes Alves and R.Carlos are not perform very well in defensive game despite it is considered less level of skill, so this is an exchangement for their advanatbge in offensive quality as well.
     
  25. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    My criteria is pretty simple.

    How would any teams results change if you'd replace Player X by Player Y?
    Hard to tell but looking mostly at performance factoring the circumstances and to some degree overall skill and achievments might give you a hint.
    Naturally watching them play and how the player is viewed by the football world during his era is also usefull.

    And that gap in all of those is enourmous in favour of Dani Alves.

    Could you cite examples or statistics that lead you to that conclussion other than 'the general opinion of the public'? Also ahe you seen enough full games of Jorginho that you are in the position to say that same does not apply to him?

    Well there lies the problem. You can't just apply a simple formula and expect good results. Especially not with the kind of information that are available about those players.
    What happend to your Phenomal Class - World Class - International Class approach? Made much more sense.

    No hard feeling Dearman, you're doing a great job overall. ;)
     

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