Did the ref you talked to actually say the kicking team has to ask for 10? Or did he simply say the kicking team doesn't have to wait to take the kick? I'm trying to help you understand the rules so you're not one of those parents who yell "they have to ask for 10" when the ref backs up the defenders. And hopefully you won't be one of those coaches who insists on players standing right next to the ball in order to delay the restart.
I think the fact that he asked the ref, and accepted what the ref told him without argument or complaint is a good thing. I wish more soccer parents were like that.
I get that. I'm not saying he should have argued or complained. I'm trying to make sure that he heard what he thought he heard. Did the ref actually say "the kicking team needs to ask for 10" or just "the kicking team doesn't have to wait for the space"? The "he needs to ask for 10", if believed, can set up an issue where a player (defending team) goes and stands next to the ball again and again and again and the ref finally pulls out a card. I've seen it happen and parents will yell "He didn't ask for 10!". According to the rules, they don't have to.
I get it--and yeah, I've seen/heard parents at outdoor games verbalize the same fallacy. I do think NewDad realized that this rule was specific to this indoor facility. Probably not ideal that this facility was reinforcing that fallacy, but then again the sooner you realize that indoor is a different sport with different rules, the better.
Look at what he posted again... I'm not sure there is a different rule at this facility. Did the ref actually SAY the kicking team has to ask for space, or is that a conclusion NewDad made based on what the ref did say? If the former, then it's a rule at that facility (and it may be), if the latter, then (IMO) NewDad should know what the rule actually is.
I mean, he did say that "I'm just going by what the ref told me. That's how they do it in this venue." Can't you give him the benefit of the doubt that he understands the bolded part? My take is that he asks more questions than 99% of soccer parents, so he's way more likely to learn a broader perspective over the long term than most. I'm with you on wanting greater understanding of the sport. I spent many years on the sidelines wincing while overbearing sports Dads trumpeted their ignorance or lack of appreciation of the beautiful game.
You're right. What "triggered" me was the "They have to ask for 10". I'll readily admit that could be the rule at that facility, but when I hear that, my gut reaction is someone doesn't understand the rule. Which is why, in my first response (ok, one of the responses), I asked if the ref actually said that.
The head ref said that if the opposing team has not given the 5 yards (5 indoor, 10 outdoor per him), and the kicking team goes ahead and kicks it then that's on the kicking team. Ie, if the kicking team accepts that not proper space was given because kicking team is trying to take the kick quickly, well they can do that. Now I didn't ask specifically what is someone is standing directly in front of the kicker (like a few inches)... I'm guessing that would be too blatant of an offense and the ref would tell them to back up, but I don't know for sure. What happened in our case this weekend was actually that a kid was standing just a foot or two behind our kickers and as soon as one tapped the ball the kick just came from behind and got the ball, and that pissed me off, the ref didn't do anything. The senior ref (who was not officiating this game, he was in the office when I sought clarification) said it has to be 5 yards in every direction. I mean, I feel in U8 the ref should just go ahead and enforce the yard rule. It's a bit much to expect 6/7/8 yr olds to remember to ensure 5 yards, but I have told my kids that and I'll tell them again. Kids at this age aren't very vocal and are easily intimidated. I was coaching this game, and even if I yell the instructions they don't always hear me because they are kinda far away, and lots of other noise happening.
You got it backwards. Our team is not the one standing too close, its the other teams standing too close when we are kicking. It is frustrating. The refs here are not consistent. They should help these kids with the rule enforcement. For example, some refs will just put the ball down and say go ahead. The kid doesn't know it's indirect so they'll just try to shoot at goal. The ref should at least tell the little kid, "hey it's indirect meaning it has to touch another player before it goes in goal". I mean this is U8 and at this age it's all about learning. So help the kids learn.
This is where coaches and parents (of the team taking the kick) will yell "ask for 10" (or in the case of indoor, 5). As far as not knowing indirect from direct kicks, IMO, this is something the coaches are responsible for. I've seen indoor leagues have "all indirect" kicks. Regardless, coaches should teach the players to look at the ref before kicking... is his/her arm straight up in the air? It's indirect. If you have any doubt, ask. In the situation in your PP, with a defender behind the kicker, I could see why the ref didn't do anything, although he'd be justified in saying something. However, if the defender could get from behind the kicker AND chase down the ball, it sounds like there wasn't enough force in the kick.
The kids taking our kicks yesterday were 6 and 7 yrs old. You want them to look around, make sure they're getting their 5 yards and if not say to the ref "hey ref, how about 5 yards?" The refs are not all consistent. Some will tell the kid it's indirect, some will not say anything. At U6 and U8 they should be helping the kids understand the rules. All the free kicks are indirect here. My kids know that, but I suspect not even every ref knows that as some just line it up and call one kid to come up and kick. The defender behind the kick came in after the first kid tapped the ball, he got to it before the kicker. But that's beside the point. I've never seen a defender stand right behind the kicker. It's bush league, poor sporstmanship and should be reprimanded. So now the 7 yr old has to not only ask for 5 yards but also remember to look behind in case a sneaky defender is trying to foil the play... haha ok
Nope. I'd expect the coach/parents to ask if they thought they were being encroached on. Inconsistent refs are a fact of life in soccer (and other sports). It's been a while since I've watched a indoor game, do the refs hold their hand straight up (to signal IFK)? What I'm suggesting is to teach the kids to look for the signal. It will help them look for it in outdoor too. I could see getting away with that tactic once, then the ref should know what to look for. I agree it's bush league. But, like the inconsistent referees you'll run into, you will see a lot of "bush league" tactics as you continue your soccer parenting path. One big one is a player who "fluffs" the ball... Team A gets fouled (say at 35 yards out from goal). A1 walks up, picks up the ball, and gently tosses is 3-5 yards closer to the goal. Sometimes refs will catch them and sometimes they won't. I think THAT play is "bush league", but had a parent of a player two years older than my son tell me he's proud of his son for doing that. And this was for a HS game.
Just had the final game. I told them to make sure they get 5 yards, and also if the other team is taking a free kick to rush in as soon as it was touched. And this scenario came up and we made a good wall and then rushed in as soon as the other team did the first touch, and we got the ball and prevented a shot from happening. I was proud of them. We won 4-1. Our goalie had some great saves. Finished with 6 wins 3 losses. I still think U8 is a weird because of such a wide variance of abilities and ages. I hope the next series we can have a more cohesive squad. I think we could split the team, put half in B division, half in A.
I'm 15 years-and-change removed from those days, but yeah--I remember my son's U8 team; they were a really good team that played pretty darn well for a kids team--yet there was still room on the roster for a couple of goof offs who clearly had no interest in the sport.
When I coach, I dont really care about what the refs are calling. I focus on my players and watch their decision making and skills. I praise them when I see something worth praising and make a few notes on what needs to be worked on in training. I'll give reminders to individuals and often pose it as questions. Often, I'm scanning the field and not following the ball. I talk to my players who are off and often have a good laugh. Personally, I really enjoy the games.
I have a thought. I want to create an indoor select team with like-minded parents. And... each parent will take turns coaching a game. So, let's say there's 8 players, 8 games. Each parent (one parent per kid) will coach one game. So... the kids already play at their "home club" - ie their outdoor comp club. I want to pull together some solid kids from various clubs. Now my kid is on a comb club and also plays on an indoor rec league that is unrelated to the club. The indoor thing is ok, just a way to get more play time. And my kid likes it. But it's a hodge podge of kids. I would like a more cohesive group. I take my kid to pickup games and in chatting with some of the other parents I get the sense they might be into something like this, though I haven't proposed it yet, just an idea so far. I think a lot of parents want to try to coach but probably don't want to run the entire thing. And indoor is just ancillary to the main club, so not much pressure to do hard core training for this indoor team; they could just meetup for the games and probably do quite well. Could it work?
With the right parents--yes, I think it could. I've done the same thing for tournaments; it was a blast.
Actually at one of the places they do! I think all venues should do food+drink, the adults seem to really dig it.
I disagree with your premise that "a lot of parents want to try to coach". There are some who might be willing, but don't necessarily want to. That being said, I don't see a problem with someone getting (part of) an outdoor team together to form an indoor team in the off season. Just do it.
I think it's possibly true that a lot of sports parents have some "If I knew more, I wouldn't mind giving it a try" but that's as far as it goes. I've occasionally fantasized about starting an independent club team that would build on what I learned from my years as a Soccer Dad...but it will never happen. I don't have any like-minded friends with the coaching experience we'd need to make it viable, and honestly it would take time and energy away from other things I want to do with my life. I'm guessing there are quite a few other anxious parents who feel the same way. A chance to act that fantasy out in a low-risk, consequence-free, short-term environment might scratch the itch.
Is there where parents can brag? My kid has 15 goals after 3 games. It's fun to watch him when his confidence is high. He's the only one on his team that can really strike the ball. He's right footed but scores about a 1/3 of his goals with his left, which is great to see.