All Champions League Finals (1956-2019)

Discussion in 'Champions League' started by baochumong, Nov 9, 2021.

  1. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #151 baochumong, Mar 5, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2024
    Based on World Cup results of national teams, rankings of conferations, results from continental club football competition (UCL of a non Europe continent), wage data of a league, i have come up with a global rankings of leagues

    Here is the short-version of it

    1) England
    2) Spain
    3) Germany
    4) Italy
    5) France
    ==================== ↑ UCL contenders
    6) Brazil
    7) Argentina
    ==================== ↑ WC contenders
    8) Portugal
    ==================== ↑ UCL KO competitors
    9) Russia
    10) Ukraine
    11) Netherlands
    12) Belgium
    ==================== ↑ UCL regulars
    13) Turkey
    14) Mexico
    15) United States
    16) Japan
    ==================== ↑ Biggest Leagues Outside Of Europe
    17) Greece
    18) Switzerland
    19) Austria
    20) Scotland
    21) Czechia
    ==================== ↑ UCL non-regular participants

    Explaination for Brazil's & Argentina's standings:

    Since 1998, Brazil & Argentina are the two South American teams to have won World Cup and make it to the WC KO stage on a consistent basis. I do not have Uruguay to be in the same class as Brazil & Argentina since Uruguay have not been consistent in World Cup (only 3/7 KO). Also the likes of Portugal, Netherlands & Belgium, Russia & Ukraine are ranked below Brazil & Argentina because these Euro nations have not won a single World Cup while Brazil & Argentina are multi-time World Cup winners and are still consistent in the modern era of international football. And of course Brazil is ranked higher than Argentina since Brazil won the last 5 Copa Libertadores and has a bigger league (in terms of revenue) and offers higher wages. Nevertheless the big 2 from South America are ranked under the big 5 in Europe since Europe's big 5 have more well rounded football records than South America's big 2, always being the best at club football (by having won the last 11 FIFA Club World Cup) and being among the best in international football (by having won 5 out of the last 7 World Cups).

    Explaination for Turkey's, Mexico's, United States' & Japan's standings:

    Turkey is a good example of how size does matter in club football (80m consumers > 10m consumers). The Turkish national team does not qualify for World Cup but their top clubs can afford to have better players than the top clubs from small Euro leagues. Also Turkey is a part of UEFA, which means their top clubs are given opportunities to play against the top euro clubs. But when you find out where Turkey is and what their religion is, its clear that Turkey is a part of Europe (in terms of history, relations & interactions with Europe, participations in European affairs) but outside of Europe (in terms of religion & ethnics mixture). Therefore Turkey can be seen as a good representation of how a big league outside of Europe can do well against the majority of small Euro leagues.

    Now lets come to Mexico, United States & Japan. They are all big leagues outside of Europe, have reached WC KO stage for a considerable amount of times (at least 4/7 KO) but have never won a World Cup nor played in a World Cup Semi (since 1998). To me, they are all ranked under the Turkish league since Turkish top clubs get to play in Europe while Liga MX's, MLS' & J1's top clubs dont get to have as many opportunities as the Turkish top clubs to play against top Euro clubs. Furthermore Turkish league offers higher wages than Liga MX, MLS & J1.

    With regards to the standings of Mexico, US & Japan, i place Japan under Mexico & US due to Asia being a weak confederation and.J1 offers lower wage than Liga MX & MLS. Another point to add is that MLS has stars while J1 does not. MLS knows that it can not attract the best players in their prime but still wants big names and thus makes itself well known as a retirement league for football stars. Also American billionaires being the owners of many top Euro clubs makes it easy to organize games between top Euro clubs and MLS teams. However MLS is still behind Liga MX in terms of talent production.This is reinforced by Mexico national team's superior results in WC and the complete dominance of Liga MX clubs over Concacaf Champions League.

    So in conclusion Turkey > Mexico > US > Japan > small Euro leagues. Now i only have to rank the likes of South Korea, Uruguay & Colombia.
     
  2. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Just found another website with wage data of leagues
    https://www.capology.com/

    The new data (with larger number of players)
    uöpkp.png

    The older data jup-ezgif.com-webp-to-jpg-converter.jpg
     
  3. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    The combo of both old & new data
    hgujhmo,lop,kl.png
     
  4. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #154 baochumong, Mar 25, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2024
    Better understanding about the rule of money

    My Top 1 - 11 has only Ukraine as an exception
    (not being a league that generates >= 400m revenue)

    My Top 12 - 16 has Greece & Czechia as exceptions
    (not being a league that generates >= 200m revenue)

    My Top 17 - 21 has Croatia & Serbia as exceptions
    (not being a league that generates >= 200m revenue)

    1/11 = 9% as exception to the rule of money
    3/16 = 18% as exception to the rule of money
    5/21 = 23% as exception to the rule of money

    Why dont i include leagues outside of my top 21? To me, i view all the leagues that generate less than 200m to be the same kind of thing. Ultimately, the financial gap between all those leagues is not huge.

    Conclusion: the further down you go in the rankings, the more exceptions to the rule of money you can find but at the same time the financial gap between leagues with similar rankings decreases (the gap becomes <= 200m). The top is always more well defined than the bottom.
     
  5. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #155 baochumong, Mar 26, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2024
    The correlation between league revenue and average annual salary
    ,kploplkk.png
    1 billion euro revenue = 600 k euro annual salary
    500 million euro revenue = 400 k euro annual salary
    250 million euro revenue = 250 k euro annual salary
    125 million euro revenue = 125 k euro annual salary

    The main reason for me to have done this to estimate the average annual wage of other leagues that have never revealed their wage data but allow their league revenue numbers to be publicized on the internet. Moreover i have to thank the Europeans & their descendants in other continents for their transparency.

    The one thing from the table that surprises me is how Colombia is actually the 3rd biggest league in South America. It's the only league in South America outside of Brazil & Argentina that is close to the Western European's standard of a professional league (English League Two salary level & number of players).

    Uruguay has a national team that can been seen as WC regular but their domestic league is quite small & does not pay much and thus their best players are supposed to go to bigger leagues.
     
  6. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    lol South American club football has bad reputation

    Venezuela
    Bolivia
    Paraguay
    Peru
    Ecuador
     
  7. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Chile
    Colombia
    Argentina
    Brazil
    Uruguay
     
  8. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    El Dorado: When Colombia Learned Money Talks In Football

    The inaugural season of the Colombian league ran fairly smooth. The first winners were Santa Fe who cruised to the title, four points clear of nearest challengers Junior. Argentine Alfredo Castillo of Millonarios would be the obvious winner of the golden boot, scoring a remarkable 31 goals which was 11 more than anyone else could manage in the 18 games.

    That was nice but the next few years would see Colombian football explode with intrigue.

    That 1949 Argentinean player strike came at the perfect time for Salcedo and Dimayor. Aided by lawyer Alfredo Senior (, Fernandez realised that if Dimayor was not recognised by FIFA then they did not have any legal right to pay a transfer fee for any players nor were they capped on pay. They could try and tempt the disgruntled footballers who wanted to play immediately with huge pay packets.

    So, they did.

    The first to pull this trick was Millonarios of Bogota who splashed out on Argentine star Adolfo Pedernera. A hero of River Plate’s fabled ‘La Maquina’, Pedernera’s arrival in Bogota caused huge surprise across the footballing world and amongst Colombian owners. Millonarios’ owner, a certain Mr Senior, was branded ‘mad’ for giving Pedernera a base wage of $500 and a bonus of $5,000.

    He took $18,000 at his presentation, seven times what Millonarios took at a game.

    The rush was on.

    Here Comes The Money

    Pedernera’s arrival caused consternation in Argentina but was a huge coup in Colombia. The problem, though, was that he was so much better than everyone else that there was a disconnect between him and his teammates.

    Frustrated, Pedernera convinced Senior to sign strikers from Argentina to guarantee success. It was an inspired move as was the decision to let Pedernera choose the players. He brought back Nelson Rossi and a certain Alfredo Di Stefano.

    They promptly began to steamroll the league, averaging four goals a game. Di Stefano bagged a hat-trick on his debut. Everybody else in the league had to act.

    Deportivo Cali were one of the first to act, reportedly sending a plane to Peru and getting 14 players back. Independiente Medellin repeated that trick. Goals were aplenty. Deportivo Cali would push Millonarios close, losing the title on goal difference. Santa Fe would finish third, scoring 102 goals. 109 foreigners had arrived in Colombia by the end of the 1949 season with just over half from Argentina.

    With the 50s now upon the world, Colombian football went insane, signing any foreigner they could throw money at. Hungarians stars of the 40s were signed en masse; Lithuanian goalkeeper Vytautas Krisciunas would become a league winner with Deportes Caldas; Charlie Mitten would leave Matt Busby’s Manchester United; Billy Higgins, Neil Franklin and George Mountford would be the other Englishmen in Colombia; Bobby Flavell would leave Hearts to earn big money; most of Uruguay’s 1950 World Cup side ended up in Colombia – the list was endless.

    The foreign influx was enormous in such a short space of time. In the inaugural season in 1948, 72% of players registered were Colombian. By 1951, 72% of the players registered in Colombia were foreign. The list of nationalities read like a geography quiz: Argentineans, Englishmen, Peruvians, Uruguayans, Brazilians, an Austrian, a Romanian, Chileans, Paraguayans, Hungarians, a Romanian, an Italian, a Spaniard, a Yugoslavian, a Czechoslovakian, Ecuadorians, Costa Ricans and, of course, a Panamanian.

    The rush had fully commenced despite the world’s protestations.

    The End
    Naturally, the world’s governing body was not best pleased by the league’s wanton spending. FIFA promptly expelled Colombia in 1949 but that did nothing to curb Colombia’s excess. In the end, it took some compromise from FIFA to eventually end the protests.

    The ‘Pact of Lima’ was agreed upon in 1951 where the players Colombian sides had bought would be allowed to play there until 1954 then return to their clubs as well as Colombia being reinstated to FIFA. The pact was a great win for Dimayor, who could continue profiting from their huge spends and provide some of the most entertaining football on the planet.

    Millonarios, led by Di Stefano, were the real profiteers from the huge spending, winning four of the six league titles in the ‘El Dorado’ period and even being invited to tour Spain in 1952. They would defeat Real Madrid on that tour, living up to their moniker ‘Ballet Azul’.

    In truth, the novelty had worn off by that point. The mass influx had stopped and many of the ageing stars brought in were beginning to depart and retire. The entertainment was still there but the impending departures meant that the peak had already arrived.

    1954 saw the vast majority of the stars return back to their clubs with a few going on to great success. Di Stefano would be central to Real Madrid’s early domination of the European Cup along with fellow Argentine expat Hector Rial while Uruguayan World Cup winner Ramon Villaverde would adorn Barcelona colours with distinction.

    The British contingent were mostly shunned. Flavell would be fined heavily by the SFA and suspended from playing football for a number of months for his Colombian dalliance while Charlie Mitten, who had reportedly left with Busby’s blessing, found his old boss had turned on him and would sell him to Fulham as quickly as he could.

    And that would be that for ‘El Dorado’. It remains a unique time in footballing history, full of remarkable tales and highlighting the rather grim bureaucracy that players had to live by.

    Colombian football never quite was the same after that period with ‘El Dorado’ now revered as a happy-go-lucky jaunt for some footballers looking for a sweet payday. Indeed, the 2015 season saw just 13 foreign players registered in the Colombian top tier. No more signing the top talent for however much you can fit in a briefcase. No more players slinking off in the night.

    ‘El Dorado’ was many different things to many different people but it will always be one thing to football historians: fun.

    https://longballfootball.wordpress....hen-colombia-learned-money-talks-in-football/

    Funny how a club was named "Millionaires" back in the days. The idea of a club full of superstars has existed since 1950s.
     
  9. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    New updates to my rankings of leagues

    1) England
    2) Spain
    3) Germany
    4) Italy
    5) France
    ==================== ↑ UCL contenders
    6) Portugal
    ==================== ↑ UCL KO competitors
    7) Russia
    8) Ukraine
    9) Netherlands
    10) Belgium
    ==================== ↑ UCL regulars
    11) Turkey
    12) Greece
    13) Switzerland
    14) Austria
    15) Scotland
    16) Czechia
    ==================== ↑ UCL non-regular participants
    17) Denmark
    18) Croatia
    19) Sweden
    20) Serbia
    21) Poland
    ==================== ↑ Top Representatives For A Region
    22) Norway
    23) Romania
    24) Bulgaria
    25) Slovakia
    26) Slovenia
    27) Hungary
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Tourneys of International Football & Club Football
    28) Israel
    29) Cyprus
    30) Belarus
    31) Kazakhstan
    32) Azerbaijan
    33) Moldova
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only Club Football Tourneys
    34) Wales
    35) Republic of Ireland
    36) Albania
    37) North Macedonia
    38) Finland
    39) Latvia
    40) Bosnia & Herzegovina
    41) Iceland
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants in Tourneys of International Football & Low-tier Club Football
    42) Georgia
    43) Northern Ireland
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only International Football Tourneys
    44) Luxembourg
    45) Armenia
    46) Kosovo
    47) Faroe Islands
    48) Lithuania
    49) Estonia
    50) Liechtenstein
    51) Gibraltar
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only Low-tier Club Football Tourneys

    Georgia managed to qualify for Euro and thus got promoted to the group of "Occasional Participants In Only International Football Tourneys". As for why Georgia gets ranked above Northern Ireland, its due to both of them not having a clear achievement gap between them (Georgia has better nations league standings while Northern Ireland still has better Euro records) and the only tiebreaker between them was the result of the last club match between them, in which a Georgian club beat a Northern Ireland club during 2009-10 season.
     
  10. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    The math makes sense. Half of a league revenue should be spent on players wages. In a league that generates about 200m euro per year, the total wage bill for 500 players in the league should be about 100 m euros per year. And when you divide that 100 m euros among 500 players, each player in the league should receive just about 200k euro per year.
     
  11. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Its time to finish what i started - completing my rankings of European leagues. And in order to complete my rankings, i have to rank the worst leagues in Europe (Montenegro, Malta, Andorra, San Marino). If you only look at achievements of these 4 associations to rank them, you would find very difficult to find the distiction between them. Overall, all these 4 associations have never got qualified for a European club football competition nor a WC nor a Euro. Therfore the tie breakers between them have to be something else. So i decide to fall back onto the tiebreakers in my previous posts: nation league standings & h2h records against each other. And if these 2 tiebreakers do not show which association is better than the other then the associations are judged based on their reputation & how much they have improved since 2015-16 in UEFA coefficient rankings. And in case all the aformentioned tiebreakers still do not work, we then take into account the associations' positions in the 2 unreliable rankings (fifa rankings & elo ratings) and how many years the 4 associations were in the top 50 of the UEFA coefficient rankings.

    Here are the infos I have collected
    tretrehz.PNG
    From these data, i have come to the conclusion that Montenegro > Malta > Andorra > San Marino
     
  12. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Other non-important infos about the 4 associations

    Reputation
    (bad from all 4)

    Montenegro
    info (open)

    (having reached a playoff round for europa league group stage qualification)
    (having received complaint about pitch condition in international game https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...Roy-Hodgson-spot-bother-ahead-Montenegro.html )

    Malta
    info (open)

    (having reached a playoff round for conference league group stage qualification)
    (poor pitch condition in domestic games https://www.maltafpa.com/article.php?id=79)

    Andorra
    info (open)

    San Marino
    info (open)

    UEFA coefficient rankings since 2015-16

    hftjnhg.PNG
    rhzto.png
     
  13. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    The Complete Rankings Of European Leagues

    1) England
    2) Spain
    3) Germany
    4) Italy
    5) France
    ==================== ↑ UCL contenders
    6) Portugal
    ==================== ↑ UCL KO competitors
    7) Russia
    8) Ukraine
    9) Netherlands
    10) Belgium
    ==================== ↑ UCL regulars
    11) Turkey
    12) Greece
    13) Switzerland
    14) Austria
    15) Scotland
    16) Czechia
    ==================== ↑ UCL non-regular participants
    17) Denmark
    18) Croatia
    19) Sweden
    20) Serbia
    21) Poland
    ==================== ↑ Top Representatives For A Region
    22) Norway
    23) Romania
    24) Bulgaria
    25) Slovakia
    26) Slovenia
    27) Hungary
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Tourneys of International Football & Club Football
    28) Israel
    29) Cyprus
    30) Belarus
    31) Kazakhstan
    32) Azerbaijan
    33) Moldova
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only Club Football Tourneys
    34) Wales
    35) Republic of Ireland
    36) Albania
    37) North Macedonia
    38) Finland
    39) Latvia
    40) Bosnia & Herzegovina
    41) Iceland
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants in Tourneys of International Football & Low-tier Club Football
    42) Georgia
    43) Northern Ireland
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only International Football Tourneys
    44) Luxembourg
    45) Armenia
    46) Kosovo
    47) Faroe Islands
    48) Lithuania
    49) Estonia
    50) Liechtenstein
    51) Gibraltar
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only Low-tier Club Football Tourneys
    52) Montenegro
    53) Malta
    54) Andorra
    55) San Marino
    ==================== ↑ Non Participants In Club & International Football Tourney

    Im glad to have finished it. 55 Euro leagues ranked by tiers of achievements. My next work is gonna be a global rankings of leagues.
     
  14. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Correction to the rankings. I forgot to look at Georgia's achievements thoroughly (UEFA Cup qualification in 2004-05 season, staying in the top 39 of the UEFA coefficient rankings for most of the last 2 decades, having been ranked below both Finland & Latvia for more than half of the last 2 decades and also in recent years (from 2019-20 to 2021-22 season). Therefore Georgia gets put above Bos & Herz and Iceland due to Georgia's superior achievement in club football but below Finland & Latvia for having greater decline in UEFA coefficient rankings than these 2 associations over the course of 2 decades.

    juhkh.PNG

    The Complete Rankings Of European Leagues
    1) England
    2) Spain
    3) Germany
    4) Italy
    5) France
    ==================== ↑ UCL contenders
    6) Portugal
    ==================== ↑ UCL KO competitors
    7) Russia
    8) Ukraine
    9) Netherlands
    10) Belgium
    ==================== ↑ UCL regulars
    11) Turkey
    12) Greece
    13) Switzerland
    14) Austria
    15) Scotland
    16) Czechia
    ==================== ↑ UCL non-regular participants
    17) Denmark
    18) Croatia
    19) Sweden
    20) Serbia
    21) Poland
    ==================== ↑ Top Representatives For A Region
    22) Norway
    23) Romania
    24) Bulgaria
    25) Slovakia
    26) Slovenia
    27) Hungary
    ==================== ↑
    Occasional Participants In Tourneys of International Football & Club Football
    28) Israel
    29) Cyprus
    30) Belarus
    31) Kazakhstan
    32) Azerbaijan
    33) Moldova
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only Club Football Tourneys
    34) Wales
    35) Republic of Ireland
    36) Albania
    37) North Macedonia
    38) Finland
    39) Latvia
    40) Georgia
    41) Bosnia & Herzegovina
    42) Iceland
    ==================== ↑
    Occasional Participants in Tourneys of International Football & Low-tier Club Football
    43) Northern Ireland
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only International Football Tourneys
    44) Luxembourg
    45) Armenia
    46) Kosovo
    47) Faroe Islands
    48) Lithuania
    49) Estonia
    50) Liechtenstein
    51) Gibraltar
    ==================== ↑ Occasional Participants In Only Low-tier Club Football Tourneys
    52) Montenegro
    53) Malta
    54) Andorra
    55) San Marino
    ==================== ↑ Non Participants In Club & International Football Tourney
     
  15. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    The rankings of leagues in terms of its players values are also consistent with my rankings of leagues

    Rankings of leagues in terms of its players values
    (top 10 from this rankings are the top 11 in my rankings,
    top 21 in this rankings are in the top 21 of my rankings)
    ,uj.png

    My rankings

    1) England
    2) Spain
    3) Germany
    4) Italy
    5) France
    ==================== ↑ UCL contenders
    6) Portugal
    ==================== ↑ UCL KO competitors
    7) Russia
    8) Ukraine
    9) Netherlands
    10) Belgium
    ==================== ↑ UCL regulars
    11) Turkey
    12) Greece
    13) Switzerland
    14) Austria
    15) Scotland
    16) Czechia
    ==================== ↑ UCL non-regular participants
    17) Denmark
    18) Croatia
    19) Sweden
    20) Serbia
    21) Poland
    ==================== ↑ Top Representatives For A Region
     
  16. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Wage Data Of Leagues

    fgjnhgn.png
     
  17. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    The correlation between league revenue and average annual salary

    kploplkk-ezgif.com-webp-to-png-converter.png njk.PNG
    Half of a league revenue is usually spent on players wages.

    1 billion euro revenue = 600 k euro annual salary
    500 million euro revenue = 400 k euro annual salary
    250 million euro revenue = 250 k euro annual salary
    125 million euro revenue = 125 k euro annual salary
    60 million euro revenue = 60k euro annual salary

    Rankings Of League Revenue

    (you can easily deduce the average annual wage of players in a league when you know the revenue of the league)

    oppopopopopoo.png

    (not all the league revenue numbers in this table are 100% correct but they give you a sense of how big or small a league is)
     
  18. Copadobrazil014

    Jul 8, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nice info bao
     
  19. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    Wages Of Football Players From Leagues Around The World

    https://salarysport.com/football/

    Colombian 1st Division does not reach the wage level of the 2nd division in most of Europe's big 5. However it comes close to the English / Western European standard of a professional league.

    This site has Colombia 1st division to be equal to English League One. Datas from other site shows Colombia to be close to English League Two. Nevertheless Colombian 1st division footballers are full-time professionals.
     
  20. baochumong

    baochumong Member

    Nov 8, 2021
    #170 baochumong, May 14, 2024 at 3:25 AM
    Last edited: May 14, 2024 at 3:43 AM
    Clarification on the term "Eastern Europe"

    Eastern Europe is a region that is
    + South of Scandinavia (Sweden, Denmark, Norway)
    + East of Germany, Austria & Italy
    + North of Turkey
    + West of Russia

    The crossover between Western Europe and Eastern Europe is Czechia.

    The term "East-Central" Europe does not really exist in club football at the eIite level and can get beaten by the best South American national teams at the international level.

    Ukraine, Greece & Czechia in club football are the exceptions more than the norm.
     

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