Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U I didn't have the sound up loud during the game today, but it looks like the 2005 AllStar Game will be at Uncle Lamar's house of Whoop A$$ in Frisco. You're welcome to stay at my friend James' place in Frisco if you want to come and see it. I'll tell him to expect you
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U Well I'm sorry but Champions World has no obligation to be "fair" to Anschutz, Hunt and Checketts. MLS has cleverly set up themselves as an entity which skirts anti-trust laws and runs as a monopoly sanctioned by US Soccer and the federal government. Saying it's not "fair" when someone brings in competition, in the only avenue available, is laughable. MLS by law is a single solitary business. What other privately owned business in this country claims it's unfair when they face competition from someone else? Yeah they should play MLS teams on the tour, but that doesn't make it unfair, just unwise (from Man Uts's standpoint). MLS itself made the bed it currently lies in.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U Your are assuming that playing an MLS team during the tour tears it down. There were a few games in last year's tour that would have been improved had a top MLS team been one half of the fixture. If you are assuming attendance would suffer if ManU were to play Metro or DC or LA, again you are mistaken. One third to one half the stadium would be filled with supporters for the local team, augmented by the curious and opponents of the visiting team. The rest would be filled with ManU supporters within a several hundred mile radius of the stadium. It would have been brief and to the point to call you the fool, but I'm willing to withhold my better judgment on that, and give reasons for disagreeing with you. There are laws here preventing restraint of trade, and they would protect ChampionsWorld from the USSF interfering with their entertainment package. That is what I assume. However, FIFA could step in and rule that clubs staging friendlies and/or exhibition matches in countries with an ongoing first division championship must include a match with one of those teams. If FIFA cares about the growth of soccer in the US, it should do just that, and include suspensions of all players who participate in such an unsanctioned tour. ChampionsWorld could take the FIFA decision to court, but by the time a decision was made, it would be too late to confirm the tour -- regardles of the decision. Also, no player would risk a FIFA suspension, regardles of any decision in a US court. They make their money in Europe, where a US decision on the matter could not be enforced. Personally, I will not attend any matches in these tours, unless an MLS team is included in at least one match.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U he suggested Beckham, Ronaldo, Tevez, and Saviola they might cost more than a SSS to buy. Sounds like a return to the NASL to me
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U could you for once propose a solution instead of repeatedly criticizing the US players in the league. i surmise you want more foreigners in the league that'll raise the quality of play. how many? at what cost? i've heard before something like eliminating foreign player limits. letting teams signs whoever they want. ok, but would you have a salary cap? If so, how high?
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U Which I heard worked out real well! Yeah we need better play but that can't be bought, it has to be grown and that's what their doing.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U ...we could use FIFA to make an end run around the laws and restrain trade anyway. Hooray!! Why should MLS have the legal right to be the only top level professional soccer club in the country?
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U What you don't get is that there are ways to allow him to follow his dream and let others do what they think is best and let whomever's work the best win out. I have plenty of ideas about the way things ought to be set up, but: a) I don't actually have a say. b) The Big Soccer tradition when someone produces a thoughtful, well intentioned post that runs counter to prevailing Big Soccer view is to heap scorn and ridicule upon that poster for challenging orthodoxy. After the absurdities of the "no gorwth in attendance" discussion, I'm not really up to it anymore. C) Nobody cares what I have to say.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U Yes, well the federal government trumps them. Since we get to vote for them, I think that's probably for the best.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U As far as I know, they don't. FIFA has decided however that any players playing in a league that isn't sanctioned by USSF/FIFA can't play in International Games or move to USSF/FIFA sanctioned leagues without a penalty. Nothing is stopping anyone from setting up another non-sanctioned league though, and if there was a market for it I'm sure somebody would have by now.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U FIFA and USSF designate what league is the country's First Division league. You can start a league and try to have it be a top level professional league but you won't get the support of USSF or FIFA and be branded an "outlaw" league that no high profile player will play in. The US Government will not step in in anyway on something like this.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U Yes, that's the problem. Look, I think what you don't realize is that money doesn't grow on trees. In other words, I'm sure if they could, and it was feasible, the league would go out and buy Tevez, and Beckham, so people could be all happy and dandy. But since they HAVEN'T, it means they CAN'T. That is the main problem with your logic. The resources aren't there. And you say, well buy some players, and the fans will come. It doesn't work like that. We bought L.Hernandez, the league spent a great deal of money for that moron, and he was a BUST. The biggest bust in MLS actually, and guess what, he was Latin American, not European. The league should focus on bringing in cheap Latin and South American players, who are young, and can be sold off (we should also look into africa...). They will improve the quality of play, and eventually, hopefully, as the league becomes financially stronger, we can get the players. As of right now, it is not realistic to implement what you are saying. That is why I am ripping you. You are a broken record, that doesn't realize the faults with what you are saying. Now to your second point, about no one wanting it to imporove. What are you on? Can you tell me one person on these stupid boards who doesn't realize the quality isn't as good as EPL or la primera? How do we improve it? First by improving reffing, reserve leagues, youth programs, that's where you put the money in right now. For teh FUTURE, not so we can get some moron so he can bring in 20 warm bodies to a crowd, as if that is an accomplishment. And finally, the NASL risked everything on big name talent. It failed, crowds tapered off as the money fell off. The NASL taught us two lessons. First, as you said, don't expand too quickly (obviously the NHL didn't follow this lesson, and I think MLS has learned from it). Secondly, be frugal, go grassroots, don't go for the silver bullet...i.e. any name player who will come and play here. It will be a long time, but I think MLS can make it. As for Championsworld, it's a fad. People will realize the product sucks. I went to the first Championsworld game two years ago between Real and Roma. Most boring game I've ever seen. I decided there and then, that I wouldn't attend a glorified exhibition match again, especially since most of the players are backups, and the starters couldn't give a damn. Finally, even if Championsworld asks to play an exhibition, I wouldn't do it. Why? You know it will be seen as a joke, and again, it shows that the actual regular season matches are less important then some exhibition match with Celtic. The All-Star game with Real Madrid was a disaster. These morons. We need to get away from gimicks. Make the league more serious and transparent. In other words, get rid of Stoner from the booth and put in JP. Also tell Eric to tone down the frat boy tone.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U What you don't get is that I repeatedly read this same poster saying the quality of play isn't good enough. So I'm interested in ideas as to how it could be improved. If a viable idea is proposed, I'll support it. But I really didn't understand your first sentence, can you try again?
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U I did not say playing an MLS side would tear the tour down. I'd go if ManU or another European squad were going up against the MetroStars. It would be as interesting as hell. I'm talking about MLS fans ripping the tour as an excuse for the poor attendence at MLS matches or the less than stellar reputation the league has with "Eurosnobs" and others. It's a bit of an inferiority-complex. CW has nothing to do with the league's reputation. If you don't like the CW tour, simply don't go. I get this same guff concerning other international matches when they come around. Any thread about those games brings out the MLS-only "bile brigade." Some fans don't want ANY other soccer action going on. Don't forget this thread was started because a Major League Soccer official lashed out at ChampionsWorld. Excuse me, but MLS has to solve its own problems. Attacking CW is pointless. If CW crashes and burns, will that leave MLS better off? No, because their problems are endemic of the way they are going about their own business and marketing. ChampionsWorld is merely filling a void by bringing international soccer over here. They are not taking away something MLS was involved in doing. We must agree to disagree here. I believe the "Eurosnobs" would outnumber the natives. I pointed out some of the lame excuses which I believe MLS fans would use as reasons for not attending in a previous post on this thread. There are several places in the U.S. where, if you hold a Mexico-USA match, the Americans will feel they are a visiting team and their fans will feel the stadium has been "taken over." Earlier this year, when Argentina-Peru was at Giants Stadium as part of a double-header with the MetroStars, you are well aware of the complaints we heard on the Metros thread. About the Peruanos taking control of Section 101 and smothering people with their large flag. It was quite amusing. Plenty of Metro fans posted about not going because they "know what double-headers are like." Some of those that did, said they'd never go again. Why would these die-hards be any different in their response to a CW match? FIFA will not kill a goose which may be laying some golden eggs in a country they would love to have soccer get a strong foothold in. I'm sure ChampionsWorld has fine relations with the European squads it brings over so it's going to take more than a phone call from Dan to Sepp to get these tours dropped or to threaten suspensions over them. And if MLS has the money to drag something like this into court, I know we all have a few suggestions as to how that cash could be put to better use. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. Cool. It's your wallet. I don't mind checking out some of the game's stars a few times a year, even if it is an exhibition.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U Keep in mind that every time ChampionsWorld puts on a game on the US, the federation pockets a tidy $1 million. Consider also that MLS has tried to and would love to buy ChampionsWorld and put it out of its (MLS's) misery. We live in a capitalist society with a socialist-style soccer league. Face it. Does CW diss MLS? Well, of course. But consider this, for better or worse, we live in a society that is fixated on stars and pseudo-stars (see paris hilton). That's simply the way it is. That's in movies, music, sports, whatever. Why should we be able to see the world's best players here, at least a few of them. If MLS doesn't supply the demand, someone else will.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U I can't figure out why people wouldn't want ChampionsWorld here? You get a chance too see some of the best teams and players in the world play some friendly games. It is what it is. If you don't want too see that, then don't go. Some people say the games were boring. Some were (I went to 2 stinkers), but so are lots of MLS games, no? I just don't see what the downside of it is.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U Am I the only one here who notices with amusement the irony of someone with the screen name "riverplate" knocking MLS for not bringing in top European stars? When was the last time Los Millionarios signed a top European star? Or, any European player? Or, wasn't just a training ground for FUTURE European stars?
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U And as soon as FIFA does this, MLS would likely lose SEM and then be subject to de-regulation making the rival league no longer necessary. The issue is that such a turn of events would be messy so there'd have to be some significant motivation for someone to try it. At the moment there is none.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U I don't see the downside either... vote with you wallets - personally I'm a season ticket holder in the MLS and if I have the opportunity I'll pay to watch a couple of exhibition matches of top Euro teams. Crap, send Riverplate to the US and I'd likely pay to watch them. I don't think either of these items detract from eachother and anything that promotes the sport will in the long-run benefit all involved. One thing that I think is annoying though, is talk of "Quality" soccer as if that is linked to the amount of money players are paid, the global rank of the league, etc... Quality soccer can be played at ANY level... it has a lot more to do with coaching and approach of play. What makes soccer fun to watch are things like: pace, relative competitiveness of teams involved, playing for something at stake ($$$ or pride), and creativity of players in the game. I've been to Div III games in England where I've been riveted for the entire match. I've been to Highschool games in the US that have been more fun to watch than many EPL matches I've seen. I've been to World Cup games that were snoozers showcasing the BEST talent in the world. Point is, people need to focus on what "quality" means... If it means having the most expensive players/league in the world - MLS is in for a fight. If it means having compelling, competitive matches that showcase creative talented players then MLS can make it. MLS should not be asking itself the question: How can we be more like the Top Leagues in the world BEFORE they can answer the question, "What makes fans passionate about a team?" Hint: there are more teams with loyal followings that AREN'T among the top 10 clubs in the world than are in it - and few of them have "world-class" players... I'm simply saying that it is possible for the MLS to put "Quality" soccer on the field with the talent available to them today. Sure, other leagues may be technically better but that doesn't preclude MLS from being equally entertaining.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U I was at that Peru vs. Argentina thru pure luck and my brother and dad loved it so I can see some of your points about pissy fans. But you say poor attendence but relative to what, with these statistics: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1999103&postcount=79 MLS doesn't look so bad. This belief that MLS isn't a good quality league is something that hurts MLS. It can be great, Eastern Conference Final, it can be good, many times, or it can be bad, many Colorado games; most games you see on TV are 4 of the 6 best EPL games involving the big teams the best French game a good Brazilian game and Boca or River. Every Fire or Liverpool or USMNT game I watch is exciting and entertaining because I care about them. To improve MLS's attendence the perception of the quality of the league needs to improve, it's hard when people will go watch a ManU reserve team play Bayern Munich and see a horrible game based on the perception of ManU's high quality. Nobody has solutions as to how to improve MLS's perception/reality voros you have over a thousand posts grow some balls and give your advice I'd like to know.
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U Ummmm FIFA and USSF have designated MLS as the United States' First Division. And I'm still seeing SEM.
I agree it would be nice if CW teams would play at least one game against MLS teams, even if they don't have to. So let's try this for an MLS 2005 schedule (Gold Cup dates are slightly off from what they will actually be, but so be it). The All-Star Game would be replaced by a MLS-CW "Challenge Day". Sat. June 11 MLS Match Day #16 Wed. June 15 MLS Match Day #17 Sat. June 18 MLS Match Day #18 Wed. June 22 U.S. Open Cup Round 4 (Round of 16) Sat. June 25 MLS Match Day #19 – final date of "first half" – MLS suspends until July 30 Wed. June 29 U.S. Men’s International Friendly (depending on Gold Cup draw) July 2-17 CONCACAF Gold Cup Tue. July 19 ChampionsWorld Series Match Day #1 (also Wed. July 20) note: no MLS, WUSA (if it comes back), USOC, or USSF matches on these dates. Sat. July 23 ChampionsWorld Series Match Day #2 – MLS vs. CW one game on ABC @ 4:00, others on FSW or local The marquee MLS-CW matchup replaces the current All-Star Game Tue.-Thur. July 26-28 ChampionsWorld Series Match Day #3 Sat. July 30 MLS Match Day #20 Sun. July 31 ChampionsWorld Series Match Day #4a Mon. August 1 ChampionsWorld Series Match Day #4b Tue. August 2 ChampionsWorld Series Match Day #4c Wed. August 3 U.S. Open Cup Quarterfinals Sat. August 6 MLS Match Day #21 Wed. August 10 open
Re: AEG powerman blasted ChampionsWorld, Man U Listen moron... When a company like AEG spends 400 million to help promote the sport of soccer and then a crap company like Championsworld touts the teams they are bringing as the "best in the world!" you better put the best teams on the field. This past summer in Chicago I heard about 5 or 6 people wonder how bad those teams were and wondered what was the big deal about soccer. They judged the sport because Championsworld said "these are best!" Then put reserve teams that frankly didnt play soccer any better than some of the top A-league teams. So Championsworld isnt helping the sport doing that kind of crap!!! Otherwise in the commercials say "Come see the greatest reserve teams take on each other!" So yeah rip that company down. screw em. Thats captialism, when you suck you dont deserve to survive!!!!