Adams/Davies path to Major Leagues

That's actually partially incorrect.

Vancouver Whitecaps did contributed to his development but Davies himself credits his Edmonton Academy. When he started for the Whitecaps at 15, he had only played 11 games in their USL team...meaning the bulk of his development came from Edmonton

 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/german-...rtmund-over-man-united-its-all-about-leverage

"Haaland accepted a wage that was considerably lower than you'd expect for a double-digit goal scorer, and far less than he could have earned elsewhere as a blue-chip prospect."
"He'd be virtually guaranteed playing time"
"there's a difference between joining Dortmund at 16 and spending time in the youth team (as Pulisic did) or at 17 and spending a year coming off the bench (like Sancho) and coming in as the most hyped teenager in the world on starter wages."

i've seen other articles referring to his strategy as "hitting every rung of the ladder." i feel like we have a greedy propensity to jump for the top rung immediately.

tyler adams advanced faster because he went with relationships and immediate opportunity over glamor. and by joining a team with a plan, he helps his team rise to the same level many of his competition want to jump straight to. meanwhile someone like richards is still in bayern's farm system and davies has taken about a year and a half to get where he is.

people using terms like "elite path" on this page and yet i get chided for acting like we are saturated in snobs.

 

the snobs tend to get these things confused because they like to act like your last, prestige post is who creates you when you don't even tend to find their eyes unless some lower rung did their job. they say wow chelsea when hazard was already a star at lille, etc. they confuse finishing school with where you went to elementary for years. you aren't going to yale without some prior school teaching you up to get you the sterling SATs and grades to get there.

it looks to me like he was basically in vancouver's youth system one year after being with edmonton teams up to age 14.

 

No Ferriera as he has signed a new contract with MLS. Domestic HG players that resign with MLS never leave (or haven't ever left). Hamid is the only one I can think of that has done it (and GKs peak later), and he came right back and will spend the rest of his career in MLS.

Scally might do it if he starts this year for NYCFC. Bello possibly, if he doesn't resign. Leyva another possibility. The problem for Leyva or Bello is they don't play for one of the NY clubs.

 

Adams, of course, originally signed on a USL deal.
He then re-signed with the club on a HG MLS deal.

Then of course he was practically given away to the parent club RB Leipzig in Germany.

An example he's looking for might be Chris Richards of FCD. Signed a HG deal, and was sold to Bayern Munich before he ever appeared for the club.

 

what you're missing is Hamid, for mediocre quality and the ireland and U23 debacles, is bright enough to keep himself pretty constantly relevant with his choices. you probably think it should be europe and stay, but what he does is any time he feels stymied he makes a move that puts him back in front of the NT coach. he started to feel overlooked in europe, he comes back, whamo, whether for good or ill, he might be GB's dark horse choice if steffen is hurt.

practically speaking that is jackpot. only people with agendas would complain about a player with limits managing to constantly keep himself in the keeper competition. i think it's smart agent/client decisionmaking.

[in contrast, bobby wood rotting in germany. that is a good player refusing to make moves to make himself more relevant. unless his club coach relents, dead in the water. and with the way the dates fall this year, he has little chance of breaking back in the NT sitting in february, even if he moves this summer. by then, too late. his window for 2020 involvement was right now.]

if dempsey lets himself be turned into spurs' shoeshine boy, or howard and guzan and bradley carry clipboards in europe, do you think they keep their roles on the NT through last cycle?

i could actually see hamid heading back out, probably after 2022. his cycle actually looks to me like someone who builds momentum here, goes out, cashes in on it, but when we start to overlook him or use falls off, come back here, remind us who he is, repeat. right now it is in his interest to stay here and start while superior options like horvath shoot themselves in the foot with club decisions. given that he is roughly where he wants to be, reaching for the club ambition brass ring isn't even in his interest. risk with limited potential additional reward. he's already #2 and maybe sneaks in #1. why move?

 

i see efrain making a move sooner or later because he sits too much and LAG probably isn't his goal in life anyway. he's going to watch players like reyna and the U20s start breaking through and he's still a bit player there despite his talents. he will push for a trade in MLS or go abroad, mexico, europe. particularly if his goal is mexico NT.

 

Correct. Davies and Adams and now Cannon are on their original HG deal. It usually is 3+2 with very little escalation in salary.

The list of players that resigned with MLS towards the end of their HG deal is long. All are still in MLS and look to be there for life:

Trapp
Delgado
K. Acosta
Zardes
J. Gonzalez
S. Caldwell
Sean Davis
A. Herrera
T. Thompson
H. Shipp
J. Morris
C. Baird
C. Lade
B. Lennon

The same is probably true for GA guys like Roldan.

 

Another question is whether that is an anomaly compared to other leagues. By the time a player is signing a second contract, they are typically established and looking to cash in and also get stability (i.e. guaranteed money, etc.). I am not surprised that many don't transfer leagues much after singing a second contract with the same league. If they had bigger financial incentives to not sign the second contract they likely would (with a few exceptions sprinkled in). Of course there can also be some late bloomers who don't fall into this mold.

 

i repeat, as with hamid, "for life?" how do you know? morris trialed abroad and decided to start with the team where his dad is team doctor. he was called post 2014 tournament, and they missed the next one. he is 25, starting for both teams, and a dominant player on the NT. why would he move NOW and risk a "Wood?" this is his first chance at a world cup. why risk it.

I mean y'all pimp the importance of a move abroad and then ignore the failure stories and the MLS people squeezing ahead because their careers are more stable. and in this case it's not that he has to stay there forever. it's that through 2022 this is what makes sense and secures him a role in qualifying and potentially the world cup. a move now only risks that. this is common sense and used to be how NT operated. take risks to start the cycle, consolidate your club position for qualifying. we are in the "set yourself up to make the team" phase. if you take the meritocracy rhetoric and psychology of a superiority complex about MLS, out of the equation, and just think about what maximizes your chances with the NT right now, if you are starting in MLS and breaking into the young NT, there is no incentive to run off. if you are sitting in MLS or not a GB favorite, then take a risk. Wood needed to take a risk. Morris is sitting pretty.

that morris is lined up now doesn't mean he stays forever. i could see him moving in 2022 with a world cup in his back pocket -- assuming -- and with 2026 qualification guaranteed.

most of the other people on that list, it's like you're trying to set yourself up to be "right" by rattling off a list of MLS names likely to stay put. "see, i had them pegged." be real dude, many of your list are likely to not move because they either suck or don't really have a choice.

the real list to consider would be the ferreiras and pomykals and co. and they would be in actual demand outside the borders, and of those actual candidates i bet a few will in fact leave on their own timescale. and again, the timing of that will likely be a combination of factors. a player breaking into the NT may sit pat and play it safe while a worse player not doing so might move because they need to take a risk to have any chance. the implication this correlates strictly to player quality, or is a brain fart, is just not accurate.

 

Houston extended Cameron in December 2010 then he was sold in July 2012. Season and change. He was basically on the block end of 2011, one more season. Reality is that though he was on a second deal, he was only here 4.5 seasons, a fraction more than a completely expended first deal.

I think the misleading implication is like you must fully burn the rookie first 4, reach free transfer status, then sign up for another 4. The reality is they will be part way through the rookie deal, be offered an extension for more money. When your 1-2 years into the second deal is up and they are willing to sell, you are barely past the original deal had you just finished it out without an extension.

If what you really want is transfer, a la Adams, you can probably get that within the original deal, as it is then in the seller's interest to get compensation as opposed to lose you on a free. You probably leave year 2.5-3.5. But to do that you forego the salary bump of the extension. You want the salary bump here, extend year 2-3, play to 4-5. This is not forever to someone signed at 17. They are on the market again roughly with what would have been their college class. And if they don't take the extension, like Adams, they are out the door before 20.

We discussed this before. A guy making $100k or less can ride out the first deal but that will be his salary the whole time. He will leave slightly earlier but not increase his salary. If he goes in to renegotiate and says, I am getting caps and you're starting to play me, pay me a quarter-million? You say, ok, extend. He stays a year or two more but is now making veteran money. If he wants to favor freedom he doesn't extend, takes what he earns, and looks to the transfer or move abroad for the payday. If he's more immediate money oriented, or maybe likes MLS, he extends here. Maybe he wants out of his parents' house. Maybe he wants a nice car and not a clunker. Maybe he got married or had a kid.

 

I do think MLS insists on contract terms more than some European teams, but there is some naivete about the contrary approach. They aren't more lenient from love, per se. It's usually from a more ruthless place. A team that offers you a shorter deal or quickly sells may have little long term loyalty and see you fairly commodified. AZ quickly moved along Jozy and AJ. That was arguably their career peak, it was quickly over, and they counted their money. This is a trade off versus a MLS team that's like if you want to play here you can stay. Teams with shorter deals or more willingness to sell may see you as a short term cog.

I'm not saying every team in Europe is that way, but there is a difference between, say, the way AZ treated those 2 versus how long Fulham kept people around. MLS is more the Fulham model. But a team like Fulham is going to expect more of their contract honored and get angry if you play transfer games. Do you want loyalty or not. If so it's a two way street.

Related issue, NASL loved to pimp their short 1-2 year deals. You suffer a severe injury with no guaranteed money and a short deal, in the contract year, you are out of luck and maybe done for a career, no income left. You sign a longer deal with some commitment and a guarantee in the deal or by CBA, you get hurt, they owe you your term or some percentage of it. This cuts both ways.

 

Question: are you implying that if they had gone to Europe, this list of players would contain a few Adams/Davies level talents?

IMO, Pomykal, Ferreria represent a completely new level of HG talent resigning with MLS. It remains to be seen what happens with them. Either or both could rot away in MLS, thrive in MLS (ala Donovan), or end up being sold to a European team where they could rot away or thrive.

I would say that Morris is at least step or two above the others in the list above but he also has diabetes which is a pretty strong mitigating factor. I think it is at least debateable whether or not he is in the best location for his development. Would he be better off in Europe?

Of course whatever happens, there will always be those that speculate it could have been better if done differently.

 

Gonna be some disappointed USMNT fans.....

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2020...-cannon-big-deal-says-team-president-dan-hunt

 

Shrug. Nothing's been signed yet.

What that column says is that FCD wants to keep Cannon.
Well...…………..of course they do. My five year old niece can figure that out.
He's one of the top 5 right backs in the league and is everything you'd want a young professional athlete to be.

FCD's GM used to hold the same position with Santos and Gremio in Brazil. He knows how this game is played.

 

Oh...………..I'll add that Cannon isn't in the Adams vein anyway.
Not some sort of USYNT star at Solar or FCD. Didn't represent the US at U17 or U20 tournaments. This isn't a Pulisic or Reyna situation. He went to UCLA, where he did fine. He signed a HG deal with FCD and its been up-and-up since then. He's grown, developed and is now a USMNTer.

If he gets signed to a big contract with FCD, that's sorta an example of the domestic system working for a young man.

We have success stories thru every possible route to the USMNT. This isn't a one-size-fits-all situation. Even amongst the current young "core" of the USMNT, they went by different paths.

 

I think that answer is to be decided. It has been mostly true in the past but most of the time players were a lot older when they signed their first contract. Not very many 15-16 year olds signing MLS contracts before the wave of the last few years. If you are 25 probably very few Euro teams want you but if you're 20 that may be very different. WAFO (watch and find out).

 

What is a "SNY" contract?