By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
  1. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    #1 Dan Loney, Dec 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018

    Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

    By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
    I have spent the past few weeks carefully looking at the platforms and personalities of the men and women running for the position of President of the United States Soccer Federation. My conclusion is, I endorse the elimination of the position of the President of the United States Soccer Federation. If this is the quality of people we get running for the job, there must be something wrong with the job.

    I think the problem is that no one is really certain what the job is supposed to be. There’s a universal assumption that, just as FIFA rules world soccer, the USSF can and should exert a similar influence in the United States. Even the ones who talk of implementing progressive changes take for granted that they will have the power to do so, and should have the power to do so. It’s like seeing eight versions of Isildur vowing to use the One Ring for good.

    No, I will never apologize. My entire life has been leading up to that metaphor.

    This is also the first contested election in, for want of a better term, the Fan Era. The stakes for the 1990 Fricker v. Rothenberg battle were arguably higher, but just because there were millions of dollars at stake did not mean there were millions of fans paying attention. Fans don’t have a voice in this process – and don’t get me wrong, we should not. We are customers. We decided we have an interest in this, but that was our choice. And as Grant Wahl showed us this week, giving monkeys the vote is not always popular with the organ grinder community. But we’ll get to that.

    Steve Gans is the only person still in the race who had the donuts to challenge Sunil Gulati before October 10. Odds are if you’re reading this, it’s not gonna take you too long to figure out what changed on October 10. Should one draw conclusions about the viability of his candidacy based on the fact that seven other people piled on as soon as it was safe? Yes. You should. Every candidate’s platform is basically a series of promises to form committees and councils, but this one from Gans stood out:

    I will immediately halt and institute a moratorium on the current U.S. Soccer plan to centralize the State Referee Administrator responsibilities. An open, transparent and inclusive summit will then be held – with participation by all state associations – to jointly discuss any issues in the SRA program, and to consider any possible related improvements.

    No other candidate is bringing this subject up, so it’s fair to assume it’s meaningful to Gans. He wants to call a Council of Nicaea to address the issue – whatever the issue actually is. Gans may have suggestions for improvements, but the main problem seems to be centralization.

    Well, okay, that’s one way to tell candidates apart – it makes sense that some would be for more USSF authority, and some for less. Gans clearly feels the USSF should have less – wait, what’s this?

    I will create and participate in a task force of youth state associations and national affiliates to address and solve the counterproductive competition amongst sanctioning organizations which occurs beneath the topline of U.S. Soccer youth registration numbers. Such zero-sum competition is destructive to youth soccer and the youth development system, and these issues will be addressed and solved for the good of the game.

    It’s going to take an awfully strong central authority to put a stop to competition between youth soccer organizations.

    You will also have noticed that councils and committees and task forces and such play a significant role in Gans’ platform. But that’s okay, because councils and committees and task forces make up the most significant part of nearly every candidate’s platform.

    I believe you form a committee to do one of two things. Either you want nothing done at all but you want to fool people into thinking you’re trying, or you want something unpopular done and want to make sure everybody else gets to take the blame. Chief executive officers, chairpeople of boards of directors – these aren’t the sort of folks who are used to hearing a lot of backtalk in their daily lives. They’re certainly not going to go out of their way to get a bunch of people in a room to churn out something they oppose.

    People like to promise committees, because it sounds like other people have a voice in the process, even when the voices are there to be co-opted or compromised.

    If you go to michaelwinograd.net, you will learn about a renowned klezmer and world music clarinetist from Brooklyn. If, on the other hand, you go winogradussf.com, a domain name likely to be available some time in March 2018, you will read this promise from candidate Michael Winograd, speaking in the third person:

    Winograd will ensure that critical US Soccer decisions reflect input from all parts of the US Soccer landscape they affect. The selection of national team managers and technical directors; decisions on structures, policies and guidelines in youth soccer; negotiation of sponsorships and other key business transactions; and other fundamental decisions affecting the direction and success of US Soccer are too critical to be made without a deliberate, inclusive, and transparent process. Winograd will form advisory committees that include current and/or former players, coaches, managers, administrators and executives from all levels. And qualifications will be based on merit – people with pertinent skills and achievements and the proven ability to exercise good and objective judgment – not on politics, favoritism or principles of entrenchment.

    Those aren’t promises. Those are threats. The idea that, to pick an example not entirely at random, the Eastern New York State Soccer Association should have any meaningful input in who should coach the national teams is downright painful. There are areas of knowledge that can’t be crowd-sourced effectively, and hiring coaches and technical directors is….okay, it’s not up there with neuroscience, but I believe you see what I’m getting at.

    Winograd isn’t stupid, and presumably realizes this. Sunil Gulati’s expertise in choosing national team coaches was inadequate, and did not improve with experience. (What did he end up picking, three each for the men’s and women’s teams? Godalmighty.) There’s no good reason to leave decisions like this to King Mob. And there’s nothing here that says Winograd would do so. Input from advisory committees isn’t binding, still less when it’s from the break room at the construction site at the Tower of Babel.

    There aren’t many people running here who believe in the USSF President having less power. And it’s funny how youth soccer brings out the autocrat in everyone.

    We should take a fresh look at youth soccer’s organizational structure on a state by state basis. We need to implement uniform standards and ensure fairness across youth soccer in all states, and then work together to structure the youth landscape in any given state in a way that makes the most sense for that state, taking into account existing entities, geography, demographics and other key factors. And we must clearly define that structure and its individual components to the consumer.

    One way to achieve what works best for an individual state would be to leave it to the individual state. Winograd, like Gans, and like most of the other candidates, would sooner crawl on broken glass.

    Eric Wynalda announced his run something like a week before Winograd, but over a week after the Trinidad debacle – after spending literally years hemming and hawing about it. He would have been in a much better position had he made a stand before it was safe – but judging by his campaign web site, probably not. There’s no platform, just a series of pinheaded videos under three minutes each. The closest thing to an actual plan is in the Four Four Two interview he did with Scott French. His twin planks are promotion and relegation on the one hand, and a winter-to-spring schedule on the other.

    Let’s put aside for a moment whether either of these are good ideas. Wynalda presumably knows that no US league is doing either of these things voluntarily, but assumes the USSF President has the power to force these policies onto member organizations. It’s a little troubling when people spend years complaining about Sunil Gulati exercising too much power, only to find out the solution is to change the name of the person exercising that power.

    It was not Wynalda that sounded the knell for the Gulati administration, but Carlos Cordeiro. Until Kathy Carter entered the race, Cordeiro was routinely summed up as Gulati’s right-hand man. Apparently the two had a split, probably due to Cordeiro realizing that Gulati was ambulatory dead meat before Gulati did.

    There is a great deal on Codeiro’s platform that deserves serious discussion and consideration. In fact, he would probably make a very good USSF President, my glib click-baity dismissal of the entire process notwithstanding. But if you considered Gans and Winograd, and thought, “I like them, but they don’t suggest enough committees”? Have we got a guy for you!

    These are the planks in Cordeiro’s platform that stood out the most, to me, anyway?

    Have a truly independent President who is beholden to no one, listens to and treats all members of our community fairly, is transparent, abides by checks and balances, and works collaboratively to bring all stakeholders together around common goals; [and]

    Empower the Board to play a greater role in all Federation activities, including the creation of two new board-level committees: a technical committee, chaired by an Athlete Director, to oversee soccer operations, and a commercial committee, chaired by an independent director, to oversee all USSF commercial activities, including marketing and TV broadcast rights[….]

    That first paragraph is quite the slap at Sunil Gulati, unless all this time Cordeiro’s held a grudge against the late Dr. Bob Contiguglia (EDIT - good news! He's not dead! Why did I think that? The world may never know). And it’s a refreshing acknowledgement that checks and balances in USSF exist, rather than depend on the whim of the executive.

    The commercial committee idea seems like a reference to Soccer United Marketing, and not necessarily a kindly one. It reads like he’s talking about putting a cop on their corner, especially if we go by “independent director.” Cordeiro might, in fact, have been wrongly dismissed as a status quo candidate. I’d be extremely interested to hear Cordeiro elaborate on this.

    And apparently I’m the only one who would be, since there’s literally a lawsuit going on about this very topic and the genius plaintiffs don’t even seem to have asked Cordeiro for an opinion.

    It’s worth noting that Wynalda seems to loathe Carlos Cordeiro on a personal level, judging by the Scott French interview. In case you’re wondering how close this was going to be to a full-on Cordeiro endorsement.

    Two other former US national team players joined the race, and I like to think both of them joined specifically to annoy Eric Wynalda. Wynalda certainly treated Kyle Martino dismissively enough, and continues to. Paul Caligiuri, on the other hand, is one of the few men who outranks Wynalda on the legendariness scale.

    Kyle Martino has been agonizingly slow with specifics, and irritatingly quick with accusations – he and Wynalda need to form a joint ticket. Or a podcast. Martino, like Wynalda, is given to dark accusations of blackballing and reprisals against those who place toes against lines with insufficient enthusiasm. In complete fairness, Martino has endorsed an idea where little soccer goals could be placed under basketball hoops in city playgrounds. It’s a pretty poor excuse for inclusion, but then again, at least it’s an idea.

    Paul Caligiuri is not campaigning online, and doesn’t have a web-based platform. In case you were wondering how close this was going to be to a full-on Caligiuri endorsement.

    The true insider candidate rolled around in December, when it became apparent that even this crop was preferable to Four More Years.

    Sometime between November and now women started playing soccer, so someone had the bright idea to get a woman to run for USSF President. Kathy Carter’s platform is unusually light, even for this field. It really boils down to whether you believe “President of Soccer United Marketing” is a qualification or not. There’s nothing Carter is going to do to win over someone who has the fears of all SUM.

    Carter is also running an old-fashioned USSF campaign, which means meeting the people who actually have the vote. It was ridiculous to think that the President of SUM would not have the endorsement of the Chief Executive Officer of SUM, so people should not have been appalled that Don Garber was campaigning for her. Sunil Gulati, on the other hand, was pretending not to have endorsed anyone, at least until Grant Wahl followed up on endorsements from a couple of Eastern Seaboard soccer associations.

    Did I mention we’re dealing with a bunch of guys who are used to making decisions and are not used to being second-guessed? For all you who expected soccer associations to poll their membership on who they would support – did it hurt? When you fell off the tomato truck? You knew Carter was the insider candidate already, wipe the shocked look off your face.

    Then there’s Hope Solo, who…is putting together a clear and consistent platform backed up with the passion and sincerity of her beliefs. Everyone has made up their mind about Hope Solo, which is fine, but that doesn’t mean she’s not as serious a candidate as literally any of the others.

    If the theory is that you want a change candidate? If you want someone who is really going to change the old boy network, reshape the way the Federation does business, give more attention to the women’s program, give more outreach to poor and under-served communities? Solo is your candidate. Yes, she’s one of the least diplomatic people in the sport, but then, so is Wynalda.

    I know, it’s unfair to compare Solo to Wynalda. Solo has won championships. And Solo’s platform is coherent.

    There’s something irritating about USA Today, for example, saying Solo can’t win because of her previous controversial remarks.

    The problem for Solo is that she isn’t the only former player running, but she is the only one with a hostile relationship with the federation. She won’t be able to overcome that.”

    Emphasis in original.

    Hey, let’s go back and see what Wynalda told Scott French about the USSF:

    “I completely hated my experience with the United States Soccer Federation from 1989 until now. There hasn’t been a time in any of that that I trusted their motives, where I didn’t feel that I was being manipulated or deceived or lied to or essentially ruled by fear. We have been told, ‘Cooperate and comply or we don’t need you. Take it or leave it. Ninety/ten is our idea of a partnership,’ and then we’re expected to wear the crest and be proud and go represent our country. It doesn’t work that way. It’s been that way for too long…Playing for the national team really is not something that anybody enjoys anymore. And that’s mainly because of the relationship with their federation is horrible. And that has gone back the last couple of decades. Anybody that has played for the national team will tell you without hesitation that they hate their federation.”

    But Solo is the irrational one. Why, she can barely form a coherent thought:

    Hope Solo says she will eliminate sexism and discrimination in her campaign statement. She did not offer how she would do that. She didn’t write a paragraph about it. She didn’t even write a complete sentence about how she would eliminate two things that have existed in our society since its inception. Just know that she’s gonna do that. Sexism and discrimination in soccer? Boom. Gone.

    Yes, Hope’s platform was collected into bullet points. The thinking behind those bullet points was spelled out in detail in her Facebook post and the “Why I’m running” section.

    Now, if one were to say that Solo, too, assumes a USSF President bestowed with limitless power for good or evil, then yes, that would be a fair criticism. If you were to tell me that Solo, like most of the other candidates, is running for dictator, I would listen attentively.

    But calling Solo unrealistic and unclear in the same race where Silent Cal doesn’t even have a website, and Eric Wynalda promises to ban summer soccer? Asinine.

    The United States Soccer Federation is a licensing organization. It provides a bureaucracy to handle player contracts, manage leagues and tournaments, administer the laws, and occasionally promote the game.

    Lately it has achieved attention for assembling a series of men’s and women’s all-star teams to compete with other national teams in various competitions. Those are the Federation’s primary revenue sources, and by the way the source of every single one of its fans.

    The mission for the USSF is the following:

    Stop losing;

    Stop getting sued;

    Host the World Cup.

    Instead, we will get someone whose mission will be to continue to consolidate power, for whatever perceived good. I believe Pete Townshend had the final word when it came to making introductions with recently-ascended overseers.
     
    Len, RafaLarios, The Franchise and 4 others repped this.
?

Okay, fine. Who ya got?

  1. Gans

    6 vote(s)
    11.3%
  2. Wynalda

    6 vote(s)
    11.3%
  3. Winograd

    1 vote(s)
    1.9%
  4. Cordeiro

    7 vote(s)
    13.2%
  5. Caligiuri

    2 vote(s)
    3.8%
  6. Martino

    3 vote(s)
    5.7%
  7. Carter

    17 vote(s)
    32.1%
  8. Solo

    11 vote(s)
    20.8%

Comments

Discussion in 'Articles' started by Dan Loney, Dec 29, 2017.

    1. Beau Dure

      Beau Dure Member+

      May 31, 2000
      Vienna, VA

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      Yeah, I'm going to ignore a couple of people and check in tomorrow.
       
    2. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      simple

      he is the owner of the franchise..he wants it in austin because he thinks he can make more money. no different then if the owner of the burger king you worked at decide to move it...its up to him not the ten people that eat there everyday as to where it is.
       
    3. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM

      you say wynalda doesn't want a dictatorship but he was upset on twitter with the addition of the gm position. he wanted to make sure that gm's job is just to handle paperwork for the president making decisions.

      wynalda might win and that is ok.

      I do wonder if some of the clubs/leagues that are so hyped for pro/rel won't be disappointed though.

      not everyone will be in the pyramid as there will need to be requirements to be included. tv money will be zero for really low level clubs that are struggling to fund their club now...there won't be an influx of money that they hope will be coming. there will also be some clubs that find not only do they not have the backing they think they have..but once they are put in a much lower division that they thought they were they will have even less support. Also 'open' doesn't mean do anything I mean I wonder how these small clubs with 1000 fans at matches will react when the find out they need places to play...it can't be a this year play one place and next year...we'll find someplace else thing.
       
    4. stanger

      stanger BigSoccer Supporter

      Nov 29, 2008
      Columbus
      Club:
      Columbus Crew
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      But that's not true.

      Anthony Precourt is an owner/operator. He doesn't have the freedoms other leagues give their owners.

      This has been pre-meditated by the league. We have heard Garber talk about Austin before the Columbus Crew announcement, when Austin didn't bother to put an expansion bid together.

      For you to say it's simple isn't true.

      Try again.

      I'll address your other bs tomorrow.
       
    5. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      lol no he does have the right and league has already said this.

      If precourt had no expressed interest in moving...the wouldn't be moving and they have the legal right and the league has signed of on it...like they must.

      so once again...facts.

      if you are trying to say the league is making him move out of the blue without his ok then...well you are really lost about what is going on.
       
    6. stanger

      stanger BigSoccer Supporter

      Nov 29, 2008
      Columbus
      Club:
      Columbus Crew
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      I'm saying Garber wanted to move the Columbus Crew to Austin and found someone that would do it when the Hunts wanted to sell.

      But again, the question you won't answer is why Austin? For a league concerned with metrics they won't tell anyone about, what box does Austin check?
       
    7. Dan Loney

      Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

      Mar 10, 2000
      Cincilluminati
      Club:
      Los Angeles Sol
      Nat'l Team:
      Philippines

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      I don't think anyone is saying he doesn't have the legal right. The arguments are about the damage it does to the league, both in fan affection and in fan dollars.
       
    8. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      stranger is saying he doesn't have the legal right and if you go to those two blogs they are also trying to argue there are legal issues that they hope will force them to not move.

      there is zero evidence that moving the crew would hurt fan interest/affection/dollars in fact there may be the opposite impact. I mean I'd love for someone to show me how LAFC is being negatively impacted by this or even do you see cinci fans not being cinci fans because of this? a small group of crew fans may disappear but most will just go to cinci...also the crew will be replaced down the road by a smaller club in a lower division and the small base crew fan will jump to it. Think MK Don's and afc Wimbledon....it actually helped MK I mean they even cash in on being the 'bad guy'. and any interest is good interest.
       
    9. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      zero proof of that garber forced the hunts to sell to someone that would be the crew to austin.

      what you are doing is an example of making as many false statements as possible and hope one of them sticks to someone even if they aren't true and contradict each other.

      you were touting those blogs..that argued that in 2013 the crew were a beacon of greatness in mls. why would mls force the hunts to sell to someone that would wait four years..and then move them. why not just force them to sell someone in austin then? why wait four years? your arguments contradict eachother.

      the guy lives and his firm is in cali...so find someone from cali to but a ohio team and move it to texas lol.

      you could argue that they should always try to get an owner who is locally attached to the community but no one else was offering almost 70 mill back then and nobody is offering precourt a good price now...shows their isn't the interest needed.
       
    10. Dan Loney

      Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

      Mar 10, 2000
      Cincilluminati
      Club:
      Los Angeles Sol
      Nat'l Team:
      Philippines

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      I'd forgotten about the Modell Law. Precourt may NOT have the legal right to move. I was looking at it through the dark glass of the USSF. The State of Ohio might be able to prevent it, the MLS owners definitely can prevent it, the USSF and its Board of Directors can't. (I dunno the status of the San Antonio complaint at this point, seems like the Spurs took the air out of it by promising to wait patiently for the next expansion round.)

      The big difference between Milton Keynes and Wimbledon is that Milton Keynes was an unoccupied market - maybe one of the very few in Europe. If Wimbledon FC/AFC Wimbledon fans felt robbed and fought back, it certainly wasn't because there wasn't professional soccer available in the Greater London area.

      MLS, on the other hand, is not in a position to alienate entire cities. They're acting like the NFL without proving they have the NFL's audience or marketing power. Columbus to Austin would tick off, at the very least, two markets that would hold a grudge against MLS indefinitely - Columbus and San Antonio.

      The NFL is in the middle of a multi-year experiment to see if fan loyalty matters, if you are sufficiently popular among casual viewers. Even if MLS believes it has enough casual viewers to follow along in the NFL's wake, they'd be better off solidifying fan loyalty, in case the NFL guessed wrong.
       
      The Franchise repped this.
    11. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

      Man Utd and LA Galaxy
      England
      Aug 13, 2007
      US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      England

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      Even if the NFL is right in the context of the NFL, they remain a draw to the casual fan, at least in part because they're the best example of the sport.

      Looking at TV ratings, it doesn't feel like MLS is (relatively speaking) especially popular with casual soccer fans, who have better options in terms of standard of play.

      Loyalty to either a local team or domestic soccer in general, would seem to be the strongest draw that MLS has right now, along with being the strongest option for those wishing to regularly attend games in person.
       
    12. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      ur missing a few key factors

      seattle and their fans tried to do that with the sonics...they moved.

      ohio will have an mls team...in cinci so the 'there were other teams' nearby isn't an argument to legally forcing the team to stay. You also need to understand that nothing that has to do with feelings or fans will keep a team from moving.

      mls is doing terrible with ratings and that goes especially true for the crew who can't even get a local cable deal.

      MK dons are like an hour outside of london...they aren't a different hidden market lol. you make it sound like the clubs are all spread out..you don know that the england isn't as physically big as texas...its actually not even close. MK isn't like an 8 hr drive from the nearest league club lol.
       
    13. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

      Man Utd and LA Galaxy
      England
      Aug 13, 2007
      US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      England

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      Seattle aren't in Ohio. The law in question is a State law.

      100 miles isn't 'nearby' even in the US.

      Texas also has 50% the population of England. Milton Keynes is not considered "close" to Wimbledon by any means. The UK does not have the same car culture as the US.

      The relocation of Wimbledon was so controversial that the FA closed every loophole it could find to prevent such an event from ever happening again. People boycott MK Dons fixtures to this day.

      Before being condescending and "lol-ing" at people, make sure you understand your subject matter first. If I shared this post with my countrymen, you'd get a fair number of LMAOs.
       
      Beau Dure, Dan Loney and The Franchise repped this.
    14. USRufnex

      USRufnex Red Card

      Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
      United States
      Jul 15, 2000
      Tulsa, OK
      Club:
      --other--

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      Now you're just acting like an MLS bot.

      As for the poll I posted which I believe to be a far better barometer of where soccer fans stand on this issue over Loney's bigsocccer readership, here's more info on the poll...

      http://thecomeback.com/soccer/fan-v...ric-wynalda-kyle-martino-runaway-winners.html
       
    15. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

      Man Utd and LA Galaxy
      England
      Aug 13, 2007
      US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      England

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
    16. stanger

      stanger BigSoccer Supporter

      Nov 29, 2008
      Columbus
      Club:
      Columbus Crew
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      Instead of going back to refute the posts of the Garber Bot, I'm just going to leave this here.

      https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hJHhTQol1RbNkvjQWpk2kruY8kwVRbGN/view

      It's an in-depth analysis of the attempted systematical dismantling of the Columbus Crew support to justify moving the team.

      Nothing I could possibly say would be stronger than this very through analysis.
       
      barroldinho repped this.
    17. mschofield

      mschofield Member+

      May 16, 2000
      Berlin
      Club:
      Union Berlin
      Nat'l Team:
      Germany

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      you keep calling it a job, but it really is not a job. Jobs pay.
       
    18. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      you can't be serious

      a poll of under 1400 people...is not a reflection of anything other then those 1400 people. I could go to bama and find 1400 old white people and come the conclusion that trump has 95% approval...do you think that reflects the opinion of the country?

      people like you live in echo chambers with confirmation bias and wonder why in the end things don't go just how you think they will. Do you have a twitter account? do you only find like minded people? do you think everyone always agrees with you? ever wonder why?

      get some diversity of idea in ur life it will help a lot.
       
    19. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      what an amazing piece you have a huge issue with being in an echo chamber.

      the problem with this 'analysis' starts early.

      when you are doing a true analysis of a situation what you do is do the research, then you look at all the facts that you've gathered and come up with a position.

      This ridiculous trumpian blogger Tim Myers didn't do that so this is a worthless analysis.

      He starts with.....

      'prepared by Tim Myers in support of #savethecrew'.....confirmation bias to the bone right from the start.

      it just shows its worthless to read, he is trying to prove a conclusion instead of completing an analysis of a situation.

      he starts it with takeaway number 1...he rambles that there are amazing sponsors 40% more then the average mls club...of course he didn't say what the average was or of course the more important what the actual values of the sponsors are which is the most important thing. so takeaway number 1...doesn't exist but nice try.

      takeaway 2...poor schedule...yeah that must be it lol. when you are that desperate already it says a lot.

      t3...no free beer night apparently hurt the franchise lol

      t4...club doesn't spend enough because despite being awesome and have a huge fanbase(that just doesnt go or watch matches) the club actually is terrible they don't invest enough in dp.

      so my conclusion is...the franchise is bad in a bad area...move it. if these 40% more corporate sponsors exist...buy a new club and make it a real big one instead of the small club crew. you want pro/rel...so buy a fourth/fifth tier club and move them up the way the sport was truly meant to be not this bs mls way right? isn't that the point you want to be the anti mls?

      my biggest point is the #savethecrew is silly because they are actually arguing against themselves. they are anti mls corporate franchise model...want pro/rel and want clubs not franchises. if it wasn't for the franchise mls model the crew wouldn't exist at all right now.
       
    20. stanger

      stanger BigSoccer Supporter

      Nov 29, 2008
      Columbus
      Club:
      Columbus Crew
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      So when presented with concrete facts you counter with your opinion.

      All the points in Tim's research you counter with, lol?

      Really? You don't really refute anything, you just say you don't believe it because, reasons?

      Now I know how @American Brummie feels. When you can bring something other than your opinion, I'll reply back. Until then, it's pointless.
       
      American Brummie repped this.
    21. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      no I am refuting the fact that he has any important facts they are opinions that he is claiming are facts.

      he claims a third of the decrease in butts in the seats is because of the schedule. He claims that if the matches were on the weekends and against better opponents that there would've been more people.....which is brilliant. However, they were during the week...everyone plays during the week to claim that somehow only the crew suffered from weekday games in a myth. other teams didn't suffer as much a drop in butts. Its not a fact its hypothesis based on world that is in a bubble. Also for the record its not really a good idea to claim ur big fan base by saying they need the better teams in better times...thats hoping for new casual fans and more traveling fans...thats not example of showing off ur die hard fanbase.

      he then throws out a fact...for three yrs in a row the crew only had one dp on their roster. That is a FACT, however those years were 2013-2015..in 16 they added a second and last year they had the max of 3 so if anything that shows an increase in investment recently not a decrease so its actually a bad thing for #savethecrew who are trying to show a lack of investment.

      then his next 'fact' is a lack of promotions...uh yeah so the problem with the crew is they didn't have enough dollar beer nights or craft beer nights lol. So we go from the crew having the biggest fanbase most sponsor support to.....a lack of craft bear nights. if you look at the difference between the lists from 16 and 17 they are 14 to 5 its a shocking number. I mean its amazing at first glance. Truth is that 6 craft beer, 4 papa johns and dollar night are missing from the list lol. Just so you know league wide there has been an effort to not do cheap beer things to try to make the matches more kid friendly. We all know what happens at places when beer is sold for a dollar or less. It also seems like papa johns has limited their involvement in the promotions too so that should tell you about the actual sponsors. At the end of the day if ur butts in the seats are totally dependent on free stuff given away...do you really have a fanbase or people who like free stuff?

      he then triest to argue the per capita income attendance and thats double of 7 other markets. I first like how he counts just columbus area and their totals but when doing a place like nycfc/red bulls they count nyc/newark/jersey city and then add their totals up because well...it makes the crew look better but its another example of messing with the numbers to get a desired result which just shows the facts are not real they are again an example of him using his confirmation bias to make facts.

      he then says they have 40% more corporate sponsors then the mls average. now the jerk in me says why don't they give stuff away and then boom 40K a match right? I mean he did say thats what is missing right? or the truth could be the crew have 40% more corporate sponsors then the mls average.....SO WHAT that doesn't mean a thing either does their per capita corporate sponsor matter. If fans aren't coming and the guy who put up the money for the franchise isn't getting enough money to pay his bills thats what matters.

      I also the love 'truth...8 digit offer to support the club'....well that sounds amazing....

      if nashville didnt pay 150 million and have to get funding for a new 275 million dollar mls only stadium to get in the league.

      business should save that less then 10 million and use it on their new 4th division team in a few years.
       
    22. barroldinho

      barroldinho Member+

      Man Utd and LA Galaxy
      England
      Aug 13, 2007
      US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
      Club:
      Manchester United FC
      Nat'l Team:
      England

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      If the Galaxy had to play all of its games against San Jose and Seattle midweek, the attendance would take a significant hit. That's a fact of life.

      More to the point, whether the promotions were attracting "die hards" or "people who like free stuff", the fact remains that a PSV that are apparently struggling desperately at the gate, dropped an avenue that is apparently a proven attendance boost.

      As this article shows, PSV went from ceasing Spanish-language promotions, broadcasts, even PA announcements and celebrations of Hispanic heritage in Columbus to making that demographic a target in Austin. It's one thing to claim a more homogeneous approach to marketing, but that's disproved by them making such efforts in the town they 'might' move to.

      The whole thing stinks of sandbagging to get a move to a location that either Precourt has tingly feelings for or more likely, might be more willing to build a venue in the type of location PSV prefers. Or of course, this might just be good old-fashioned leverage. Nudge some unremarkable attendance numbers a bit more towards the negative to make a move seem more justifiable, then set the wheels in motion so the City freaks out and relents.
       
      The Franchise and stanger repped this.
    23. stanger

      stanger BigSoccer Supporter

      Nov 29, 2008
      Columbus
      Club:
      Columbus Crew
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      No opinions. All facts.

      But since you have such a hardon for actual attendance, can you tell me who the two teams that drew less than the Columbus Crew are. Now, explain why a team in the same geographical part of the country, one that is being moved against the wishes of most of the MLS fans nationwide, will draw Atlanta-Seattle size crowds? Oh, in a non-existent stadium? In a city that seems pretty meh about the whole thing?

      Oh, the offer Garber turned down was from the same people that have their names on the OSU basketball arena. It was certainly legitimate. But Donny won't tell you that.
       
    24. a_new_fan

      a_new_fan Member+

      Jul 6, 2006

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      see the problem is you need to show why the crew should stay but you haven't.

      nobody cares about the crew if they did they would watch them or go to the matches.

      who said anything about atlanta or seattle size crowds? the crew can't get 15K a match lol.
       
    25. American Brummie

      Jun 19, 2009
      There Be Dragons Here
      Club:
      Birmingham City FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      Abolish the Presidency of the United States Soccer Federation

      By Dan Loney on Dec 29, 2017 at 3:20 PM
      Which teams drew the highest TV attendance figures in the playoffs?
       

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