Aaron Long Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by bsky22, Aug 30, 2020.

  1. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know the Mexican pool enough to compare but there are sure a lot of Mexican fans upset that he doesn't seem to play any young players. With that info and the US being the youngest team I think it's fair to question whether any coach would be playing more young players than Berhalter has. Of course it's just guesswork and you are correct our situation was weird with the missing generation but I still don't think most coaches would do it. They would play the very best ones and then a lot of veterans for too long until it's too late to add the young players that at the last six months passed a lot of those marginal vets.
     
  2. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    It's really hard to look at our player pool and see which youngsters another coach would not be playing in light of the competition. I don't know that there are many coaches who would play more youngsters but I don't see that many would play less either. I actually think the age distribution s about what you would expect looking at our player pool. Mexico is in a significantly different situation. Of course fans want to see new options when the current ones aren't looking so good. But Mexico does not have a selection of guys under 23 who are succeeding and getting regular minutes at levels higher than their more experienced players. In the US, the discrepancy between the accomplishments of our younger players in comparison to the vets is obvious and substantial. I mean, not to give the guy more crap than he already gets, but how many coaches are going to cast aside a midfield of McKennie (Juve), Adams and Aaronson (Leeds), Musah (Valencia), etc... for say Roldan who has never gotten beyond MLS by age 27 and has never excelled for the national team? Who are the 22 year old Mexicans getting regular minutes in top 5 leagues who could replace guys not doing the job? Apples to oranges.

    Put another way, who are the older guys that another coach would be playing instead of the guys who Berhalter has played? And which of the youngsters would be cast aside? I think both those lists are extremely small.
     
  3. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    You mean I shouldn’t root for us to lose to Wales 5-0 If McKennie accepts Roldan’s fist bump before the game starts? :eek:
     
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  4. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's really not true. Most mistakes at all levels go unpunished by a goal because the default position in soccer is not scoring.

    Look at the infamous US v. Belgium game. Belgium got caught napping at least 3 times and gave up 1 goal.
     
  5. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The context was defensive mistakes in front of goal.
     
  6. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #231 50/50 Ball, Jul 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2022

    I can see a world where a coach starts the Ocho with Delgado and Roldan as starters. Probably would have ended up with more points if a lower talent ceiling.

    I'm not saying it's a good idea but I do think Gregg deserves his credit.
     
  7. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clint, Wondo and Green all had unmarked shots on goal.
     
  8. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you are taking us back to 2014 with some unrelated comment? Players move, goals are scored. Green was not unmarked. He just made a great play. Dempsey was not unmarked. There was a free kick setup that had been rehearsed many times in practice. Bradley passes to one guy and he flicks it to Dempsey, Dempsey dribbles forward and Courtois challenges. A well executed play. Now Wondolowski was unmarked. That was a defensive error. And he should have put that away.

    But if you look at the two plays that I posted earlier, you have John Brooks standing around, not running, not reacting. That's not a mistake, that's criminal. Follow your man. Don't let him get goal-side.
     
  9. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not defending Brooks just pointing out that most screwups go unpunished. Think of all the bad defense Turner cleaned up at the Gold Cup for example.

    The nature of the game is that most times guys don't punish errors because most shots are missed, blocked or saved. Even a decent amount of 1v1s with the GK are saved.
     
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  10. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The point was particular to the World Cup level and particular to the defense in front of goal. The Gold Cup is not part of this discussion. Also, just because a player runs faster than another or beats a player on the dribble and shoots, doesn't mean there was an error. I'm talking about a defensive error such as a bad pass, a failure to mark at all, or getting stripped of the ball near the goal. How many times have we seen a goalkeeper or defender make a bad pass out of the back and it gets intercepted and turned into a goal? We're not good enough to be able to recover from that, and so we can't have defenders or goalkeepers who do that.

    The greater point is that you can't have defenders that are prone to errors. If you're interested, there is a study at https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.638690/full that takes a look at the 2018 World Cup and from that data concludes that a single defensive error reduced the chance of winning by 10.25%.

    Back to John Brooks. Honestly, at this point, I have no idea if he'll get called up in September. One thing I'm sure of, if he "ain't" there in September, he won't be in Qatar.
     
  11. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The error discussion just reinforces why keepers are the most important player on the field.
    1. When the defense makes an error they are the last guy to cover for the error.
    2. When the keeper makes an error all they have left is a poor shooter or their two best friends (Joe Upright and Tim Crossbar).
     
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  12. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And why keeper passing is more likely to get a team in trouble than help.

    The study was based on Opta and below is the Opta definition:

    When a player makes an error, which leads to a goal or shot conceded. Also used for spills and attempted claims or saves by a goalkeeper which directly leads to a second attempt to score.

    That's much more narrow, in practice many errors turn to nothing by good defense and won't be counted by Opta. A guy passes it directly to an attacker but his teammate tackles it off him etc. Opta errors are better thought of as "punished errors."
     
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  13. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
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  14. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Cucho Hernandez scoring 4 goals in 1 1/2 games of MLS playing time doesn't jump start my confidence.
     
  15. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I do think just replaying a player's mistakes always overstates their faults no matter who it is. But, as much as we have had people post and condemn individual plays by Brooks over and over this video does provide at least a bit of balance. It's not just Brooks who makes boneheaded plays in the back. We have to evaluate a selection of imperfect players, not just terrible John Brooks with all his mistakes as opposed to the other guys who never screw up. We have a weak pool of center backs relative to other positions on the field and that's true regardless who we select. There may well be legit reasons to play Aaron Long, but he is not some obvious solution if we are looking for players who are mistake free.
     
  16. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People are being unfair to Aaron Long, digging up videos of him getting skinned from 2019...



    In any case I'm sure Brian Rodriguez makes plenty of defenders look silly in MLS...
    < presses earpiece >
    ...hold on just getting word that Brian Rodriguez has pretty much been a bust as a DP, averaging 2 goals per season over the last four years in MLS.
     
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  17. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Watching Barcelona teenagers toy with Inter Miami players didn't jump start my confidence.
     
  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
     
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  19. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #244 xbhaskarx, Jul 27, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
    Orlando City 5 NYRB 1

    So annoying seeing comments like this every week on social media... let the poor guy concede goals in peace, Gregg doesn't care why should you??



     
  20. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm assuming this Benji Michel fellow with one goal in MLS this season is better than Raheem Sterling, but still not ideal...

    SofaScore ratings for Aaron Long:
    [​IMG]

     
  21. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Dude has not looked particularly good since injury. If Richards gets only cup games at Palace, the back line could suffer.
     
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  22. Yowza

    Yowza Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Oct 23, 2019
    Arlington
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If there's one thing that has me freaking out about the WC is our center backs. There are so many attackers with the cutting edge to gut the US if they're not sharp.
    Richards is still a question mark without minutes, Long might be the last guy I'd feel good about starting, and I even worry we've just missed Zimmerman's peak performances.
    CCV, EPB, Miazga, McKenzie, Sands. These are the guys that have to save us. They have to play great in the next two months and settle things. I'm hopeful two of these guys can step up.
    A year ago I thought the center backs were a strength of the team, but Miles Robinson goes down and it looks like I was wrong real quick. I was hopeful McKenzie would be better, he looked like something in Philadelphia, and I still think Miazga is a fine center back who plays with confidence and seems to know what he's doing.

    All that to say, I think they need Brooks. If he's not playing, never mind, but personally I think they need an old head. Maybe it's just my gut talking, but I'd expect Brooks to step up to the challenge in a big game more than just about anyone else back there. So I hope he's playing and playing well and he can get back in the team.
     
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  23. The Clientele

    The Clientele Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Jun 25, 2005
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’d take Miazga over Long, based on watching them throughout the years. I think Matt is a better player, but I doubt we will see him again in a Nats jersey.
     
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  24. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Miazga is competing with Zimmerman, CCV and Brooks. long is competing with the injured Robinson, Richards, McKenzie and EPB. So Miazga has a slight chance since both Brooks and CCV aren't shoe ins. GB has occasionally used both speedy backs together when Robinson and Richards were healthy but can't remember the last time he used to of the bigger but slower players together.
     
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  25. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Erik Palmer Brown to the rescue!
     
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