Good question, Smoke. By "democracy," we mean "a form of government or organization in which the members have a role in decision making, either by direct referendum or through representatives chosen by election for that purpose."
So we've had threads, and I stress THREADS, referring to this several times over. We've already said we're going to meet to pull this together and none of us are opposed to it so why this thread now? Seriously. Is it because you want it all to happen tomorrow?
That's right. This thread should be merged into this other one. Maybe PhillyUnionSongs is looking for an update and timeline?
So we've been that ignorant to the needs and requests of the people who are looking to improve the organization that a comment like that is warranted? We should drop everything else and jump through a hoop now right?
Maybe some people don't read every thread on BS, and therefore don't know what's going on. Part of the communication problem that has been talked about. Wait, should this post go in a different thread?
yeah yeah. Listen, we're not holding off on putting together the meeting or trying to delay the process. If anything, we're trying to nail down the needed things for the end of this year (Help Kick Hunger) and to start 2011. Announcements on both of them are coming very VERY soon. Once we get past that we can setup the meeting and move it all forward from there. There's only so much time in the day.
Contact the SoBs through the webpage and offer them a practical solution to whatever you think the problem is. Nothing will get resolved here.
You're right. I think people tend to jump to their own conclusions without any substantiating facts when there is an apparent silence on an issue. Communication is important, and so are the HKH event and other year-end issues. It sounds like the SoB leadership group still has the reorganization on the task list, and I'd think that if things are rolling out on this by January/February we'd be in good shape. For every thing there is a season.
Sons of Ben is not a democracy; it's a volunteerocracy. If you want to take a job away from an Elder, you don't need to print up yard signs and make stump speeches. You can have one of mine. Until there are more people wanting to do the work Elders do than there are jobs for Elders to do, whether people volunteer or are nominated is kind of moot.
That's kind of a chicken and egg thing. I think a lot more people would volunteer if they knew they'd have a say or vote in decision making.
What do you need help with? Most of the volunteer stuff I see is for the tailgates, which is hard for me to do being so far away. I offered to help out with the website but didn't really hear anything back. I'd love to get involved so if you need help doing stuff that I can do from Baltimore let me know!
Everyone would need to know what the volunteer opportunities are. I really have no idea how the Elders operate internally. Are there things that each of them do that could be done more effectively by a volunteer committee tasked with the responsibility? That is only partially a rhetorical question. I've run week-long town festivals that have numerous events, vendors, and acts. Things were most effective and avoided burnout when small committees were responsible for the work on each event with board members responsible for accountability and oversight. The website isn't very informative regarding volunteering (or I'm just missing it). When I click on the Almanack, it only shows 2009 editions. There's no page dedicated to volunteering or information on what the options are. Maybe people can't volunteer at tailgates, but maybe they could help with some administrative tasks. The overarching issue seems to be that people need more communication.
1. Stating that this is a "volunteerocracy" is ridiculous. Volunteers aren't allowed or invited to attend meetings/take calls with club management, aren't invited to attend meetings at which events and policy are planned, aren't included when financial decisions on behalf of the organization are made. 2. I make no apologies for not closely monitoring every thread that gets posted on this board so as to ensure that no one has ever raised this issue before. If anything, the indignant response suggesting as much simply demonstrates the arrogance of the SoB leadership - a "this is what's on offer: take it or leave it" approach. That is not a long-term plan for growth, it's a statement of hubris. 3. Yes, it's a relevant question. If the SoBs are content to be a clubby group which is beholden to management in every meaningful regard, we will keep the current arrangement. If we want the group to be a real, autonomous voice for the fans, we'll make leadership accountable. OK, Chris, let's test this proposal. We would like to assume song sheet responsibilities going forward. Will you step aside and let us do so? Assuming that you won't, why not? And if you would, why would you do so for anyone who asks? Shouldn't the dues-paying members have a say in who is running things on their behalf?
i dont know that he has responsibility for the song sheets. always seemed to me that was something he just did on his own. I know for a fact others have printed out songsheets on their own and handed them out. feel free to do so next season
Soo, besides the 'structure' of the SoB's, what aren't you happy with. It seems like you have a problem with the way things are done, but haven't really stated any problems with how things are, besides who's 'in charge'.
one of thie frist things i learned when i joined this group is that if you simply bitch you get nowhere. step up and tell them you want to take charge of something, or simply start doing it. a passive aggressive statment will only make people roll their eyes and dismiss you. keep it positive and try this approach "hey chris, being that i am really interested in the songs I am willing to take over maintaining the song sheet. Here's what I have so far.... *insert link to song page on your blog*" I'm not even an elder and i'm tired of hearing everyone bitch about things that they can directly affect by taking charge of it on their own. the problem i see is that people dont' actually want to put in work to get something done. they just want it done their way. that's not how life works unless you are really rich or famous. i don't know that any of us are either of those things. Even when I was brand new and just some wierd guy with a long beard if i had an issue i found i could always talk to one of the people in charge about it and they were at least polite and listened to what i had to say. some things i have seen change, others i haven't. god, i sound like one of those stupid positive workplace courses they have been forcing me to take...
Yes, they are. Other than meetings with the front office, volunteers are involved in all of these areas. There's no "stepping aside" necessary. The song sheets I do aren't "official" and have nothing to do with the fact that I'm an elder; I've been doing them as I get a break from my actual membership elder duties, which is why they've been infrequent. Other people have stepped up and done song sheets for individual games in the past. And your web site has already been doing the equivalent of song sheets as well. As far as I know, there is no "official" Sons of Ben song sheet. That being said, I'd rather not stop doing my song sheets, because it's something I actually enjoy doing, unlike VBScript programming and mail merging and the other stuff I do as an Elder. That doesn't mean you can't do song sheets too if you want to. Now, if you want to volunteer to write new Excel macros for 2011 membership, or merge the 2010 and 2011 membership spreadsheets, or create and maintain TicketLeap events, or create tailgate sign-in sheets every week, or store and mail out membership jerseys, be my guest. And while I'm at it...any experienced RDBMS programmers looking for an unpaid, time-consuming side project, are more than welcome to build us a whole new system to replace our current Excel-based member spreadsheet.
There may not be an "official" SoB sheet, but try telling that to the Capos, who ignore all other suggestions and who routinely castigate those individuals, groups or sections who try doing their own thing. This refusal was evidenced by the several conflicts between the capos, some of their more assiduous followers and those in/near the River End who wouldn't follow instructions. As for the rest: I welcome the news that volunteers are welcome in all capacities. What happens when there are disagreements? Or when two or more people, or groups, wish to perform the same function? Nobody is questioning the dedication, nor the abilities, of the elders. Whether or not the Elders should have a permanent claim to SoB leadership by virtue of past service, however, is very much in question. It's evident, from the dismissive reactions voiced here and elsewhere, that there are those who are unwilling or unable to countenance the possibility that others might have a role in group management, or that anyone else might serve as voice of the fans to the organization, or enjoy the access to management which comes with such a role. For the record, aside from my own well-documented interest in songs, I have no interest in any management position - only an interest in the continued success and independence of the organization. I believe that's the case with the other parties behind our website.