A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Together

Discussion in 'Elections' started by Finnegan, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. ibreak4coffee

    ibreak4coffee Member

    Jul 27, 2004
    New York
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    I agree with you in principle. The situation you describe is how the electoral college is supposed to work. Fact remains however that its an absolute waste of time for any candidate to come to these states... they have no chance of winning. Its the same reason Bush never visits California, New York, or Illinois... there's no chance in hell he's winning, and in such a tight race no need to waste time and resources like that.

    I personally hate the electoral college... and the arguments supporting it are flimsy at best. Candidates dont visit smaller states unless they are close, and few states are in the heartland. However, once all is said and done they can wield large amounts of influence on the winning party, and always get to send two representatives to the most unrepresentative higher body in the world - the American senate.
     
  2. peledre

    peledre Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Did you want to go ahead and punch our Founding Fathers in the face while you're doing them from behind?
     
  3. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Why must we assume everything that they came up with is still valid today?
     
  4. CG

    CG Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    exactly. this always blows my mind. Like they are the only smart people ever and they never made mistakes. Why don't we start fires by rubbing sticks together or sparking two rocks together? Because we came up with better ideas.
     
  5. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    I bet you're one of those people who think women and non-land owning men should be allowed to vote. Damn liberals.
     
  6. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    I wonder how white people in those states voted. In Mississippi, I'll bet those are some scary-ass numbers.
     
  7. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Well, Georgia's 65% white, so clearly some white people voted for Kerry.

    Arkansas is 80% white, so a whole crapload of white folks voted for Kerry

    Mississippi is 61% white, so at least a handful of white people voted for Kerry.

    Demographics taken from:

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/

    That is is of course assuming that EVERY non-white person voted for Kerry and that people came out to vote in percentages equal to that of the racial makeup of the state.
     
  8. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Which, of course, they didn't--in fact, I'd wager that Bush did far better among black (and I know that not all "non-whites" are black, but in that area of the country most of them are) voters in the south than he did in the north. Among other things, I would imagine (and it's purely hypothesis on my part since I don't think I know any black people from the south) southern blacks are less influenced by the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton race-baiting, victimhood-seeking message.
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    :p :p
     
  10. JG

    JG Member+

    Jun 27, 1999
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    According to the exit polls on CNN:

    Georgia: Whites 76-23 for Bush
    Alabama: Whites 80-19 for Bush
    Mississippi: Whites 85-14 for Bush
     
  11. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Man. Can I have some cheese to go with those CRACKERS?
     
  12. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4045

    It's sad when stories in The Onion are more true than anything in the "serious" news media...
     
  13. dfb547490

    dfb547490 New Member

    Feb 9, 2000
    The Heights
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    FWIW, I only know about a dozen white people from the south aside from members of my family.
     
  14. peledre

    peledre Member

    Mar 25, 2001
    Sioux Falls, SD
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    I'm not saying that the constitution is the bible and shouldn't be touched, but the fundamental core principal of government that this country was founded on should not. This is not a Democracy, it's a Republic, and far too few people actually know what that means.
     
  15. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Including, invariably, the people who say "this is not a democracy, it's a republic" as if they've made some kind of point.

    What did the "R" stand for in "USSR"? It wasn't "Red," "Russki" or "'Rithmetic."
     
  16. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Next think you're going to tell that the People's Republic of China isn't a republic and not really ruled by the people either.
    At least I know the Holy Roman Empire was named soundly.
     
  17. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Kaldrin added: "That's why I always vote straight-ticket Republican, just like my daddy did, before he lost the farm and shot himself in the head, and just like his daddy did, before he died of black-lung disease in the company coal mines."
     
  18. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Why is it that when an American right-winger wants to pontificate on America's inherent moral superiority over the rest of the world, it's always because we're the only bastion of freedom and democracy or when an American right-winger wants to justify some particularly hideous piece of American imperialism overseas he invariably invokes America's duty to "spread democracy" to the unenlightened masses but whenever an American right-winger wants to excuse some bit of domestic authoritarianism, he inevitably tries to state that America is not a democracy but a republic?

    I think the word I'm looking for begins with an "h" and rhymes with "ypocrisy".
     
  19. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Where do you get the idea that a Republic precludes democracy? This is a problem with too many right wingers - they can only see either-or, and refuse to see overlaps and gray areas. It's inconceivable to them that two seemingly opposite things (or in this case, similar things) can co-exist.

    Plenty of republics are also democratic. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea, for example.







    *BTW, our democracy-hating friend is wrong here. Yes, the United States is a federal republic, but it is also a constiutional democracy.
     
  20. ibreak4coffee

    ibreak4coffee Member

    Jul 27, 2004
    New York
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe


    You guys should read Faheed Zakaria's "The Future of Freedom". Its neatly sums up a lot of what you are discussing... and the chapters on american democracy are particularly interesting.
     
  21. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Yeah, their headquarters were in Vienna weren't they? But the Holy Wieners just doesn't have the same woody sound, does it?
     
  22. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Re: A National Divorce - A Serious Thread on Why We Should or Should not Stay Togethe

    Aachen originally, but I think the Imperial seat was just in the holder's capital, whatever that was at the time. I think the coronation was in Rome, but can't be bothered to check.
     

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