A Midfield: general/warrior/great player - who?

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Dark Savante, Apr 11, 2009.

  1. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    The point remains though. Do you think that they would be most likely better than either of Fletcher or Carrick in a midfield 2 in the present?
     
  2. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    Since the game this has been on my mind perpetually.

    Forget the experimental rout - we need a world class midfield and to do that, we need a world class midfielder in there who can live with the very best of them.

    The ability to pass, retain, read play, intercept and not panic when in the thick of it against the elite sides is all paramount.

    The most important thing is that the person is a player first and foremost.

    In my head, it's narrowed down to De Rossi and Hamsik now. After that I've still got Stephen Ireland in mind, but as said before, that's possibly as big a pipe dream as De Rossi.

    Yaya Toure impressed me from the very first moment I saw him in the '06 WC, and I dug up all my posts pertaining to the player, but thought I'd spare you all my ramblings. Suffice it to say, he, and players like him (of which there are few) are what we need to be looking at, give or take for attacking ability vis-a-vis defensive talent.

    Obviously, in the three players I've mentioned you have 3 different roles and 3 different sets of requirements.

    For De Rossi, we'd be looking at complete comfort in two roles and could even play a 4-4-2 with him next to any midfielder we have. Essentially, this would be the player who would become the first name on the teamsheet in midfield, much like Rio is at the back, for example. You're not going to get many goals from him, however, but everything else he can do when and where it's necessary. He is the #1 pick for me.

    With Hamsik you've got a CAM - someone who can do defensive work, but wants to do most of his business offensively. Like De Rossi you can put him in a myriad of systems and next to any one of Hargreaves, Fletcher or Carrick in a 4-4-2, and in one way or other, next to almost anyone in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. He has quality oozing from him and I expect him to blow up in the next few years no matter which big club he goes to.

    The last is Ireland, and I've already covered my thoughts on him earlier in this thread.

    To note; we do not want a destroyer who isn't a top notch player. First and foremost, whoever comes in has to be an S class footballer before the specifics of his position is mentioned.

    Our defence is arguably the best in the world and would warrant at least an 8/10 from even the harshest of critics.

    Our attack, even though it's incomplete, can range from a 7 to a 10 on any given day.

    The problem area is midfield where, on a bad day, you're looking at a 3 or a 4 and on a good day a 7 or maybe an 8.

    In the grand scheme of things, amongst CL contending clubs, in midfield we're definitely behind these 3: Barca, Liverpool and Chelsea whose midfields have nothing at all separating them on any given day. Our aim, then, should be to meet these 3 sides on an even keel in midfield on any given day - they should know that the midfield war will be a battle and one they are not certain to win, even if they do stick to their own guns.

    Amongst those 3, playing against each other, there's no guarantee whatsoever of who would win the midfield and it's always 50/50. We need to be in that company through the middle to allow the rest of our side to function how it should.. rather than hope it 'may' come good, or, that it can be altered to improve in one aspect (passing when Scholes comes on) whilst losing another in the same moment (the legs of whoever comes off and the stability in the tackle/harass).

    I don't feel this is a complex issue, I do feel, however, that we'd be better advised to not gamble here with a potential talent but rather, go out there and get one of those players who gives us a level expectation to come in and deliver as soon as possible.

    We do not need to gut the squad. We do not need multiple signings (this is a summer of one or two purchases, for me) and we do not need to run around like headless chickens in a tail-spin.

    As has been said for the last two summers... please, please make a move for De Rossi...

    I don't tout the big money buys often, but along with: Rooney, Torres and Yaya, this is another of those guys I feel extremely strongly about. Unlike the rest, De Rossi has no doubts about him from detractors, where I (had) argue(d) and defend(ed) etc the rest before they made the big move.

    Damn muppet summers.. just when we tawt we wuz out, they pull us back in!
     
  3. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    This makes sense, but only if you think any of the players you mentioned (pipe dreams the lot of them) are on our radar or more than a remote possibility for us.
     
  4. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    I hope management see that we're now at a level within the squad and with what they have achieved over the last two seasons, where only elite players can actually enhance us.

    Otherwise, we may as well go with our own and tolerate the growing pains accompanied by the lack of assurance of them making the grade of what we'd need to match up with those 3 sides in the middle at a 50/50 level

    To me, we're at the either or stage now. Our squad is fantastic, but regarding a settled, bona fide top class 1st xi, we're not where we need to be to avoid having the same difficulties we've faced this season in big games, remain big issues into next season.
     
  5. Bronaldo

    Bronaldo Red Card

    Apr 8, 2007
    Canada
    If Hargreaves can stay fit and Gibson can contribute, i'd love Hamsik. He oozes quality
     
  6. United Forever

    Apr 16, 2004
    Barbados
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Barbados
    I have wanted for 18 months now. Way my track record is we aren't going to get him. :(
     
  7. juanca

    juanca New Member

    Jan 30, 2006
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Palacios? Flamini?

    hahaha....

    Flamini was and is an "ok" player, who worked his socks off in the arsenal squad, but he isnt anything special.

    Palacios? have you guys seen him play? all he does is commit fouls and pass the ball to no-one. 14 million? pfff!:rolleyes:
     
  8. billyireland

    billyireland Member+

    May 4, 2003
    Sydney, Australia
    I dion't think he would suit United, but in the right setup (e.g. Arsenal 07/08) Flamaini has it in him to be an immense player, and certainly something I would consider special.

    I do wonder the odd time how Fletcher would do in the Arsenal setup too. slightly random, but I really do think he would fit your needs to a tee.
     
  9. Invincible

    Invincible Member+

    Mar 28, 2004
    Sanctuary
    I'd take Flamini in a heartbeat.
     
  10. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    People will get mad at me for saying this, but definitely better than Fletcher. Fletcher is good at what he does, but he's not the best of the best in the world. Fletcher is a part of teh squad, but Diarra and Carrick in midfield, or Melo in Carrick in midfield is better than Fletcher and Carrick imo.
     
  11. smufli

    smufli Member

    May 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    At least Fletcher's warrior, defensive attributes are improving. But I can't see any signs in Carrick and his style of play that he will change dramatically. If Fergie is planning a 4-4-2 for next season, Fletcher could be key, but I simply can't see this happening. I hope SAF'll sit down and think about a formation which suits our best attacking players: Ronaldo, Rooney, Berbatov, Scholes. You saw how Barca won the Spanish Treble: without any great midfield warrior, because they've found the right tactics how to compensate their lack of power.
     
  12. tim10

    tim10 Member

    May 23, 2006
    Melbourne, Australia

    Toure?
     
  13. smufli

    smufli Member

    May 7, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Not much better than Fletch, imo.
     
  14. tim10

    tim10 Member

    May 23, 2006
    Melbourne, Australia
    Still think he meets the criteria of a true DM than Fletcher.
     
  15. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Yes, but when you play in la liga, a midfield warrior as you put it, is not absolutely needed. In any league really. Midfield warrior become more important in single knock out must win games against the cream of the crop (especially ones with powerful midfields, of which we are not).

    Barce faced this kind of game once in Chelsea the entire year, and barely scrapped through by the skin of their teeth, with some much needed...ahem 'help'.
     
  16. Dark Savante

    Dark Savante Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Become the Tea Pot!!
    But it's any one from general, warrior or great player.

    Iniesta and Xavi are great players and Xavi is a general. You don't need a warrior, per se, if your midfield is world class anyway.

    The way they are, you've basically got Scholes in his Indian summer-prime and Scholes of a few of the late 90's (with more pace but less goals) playing together with a top class anchor sitting behind them.

    Any one of their midfielders would stroll into our first xi, none of our midfielders (now that scholes is done) would make theirs. That's the difference.

    Our forward lines are down to preference and none of their backline would make our defence unless the manager wanted the attacking nous of Alves over the defensive solidarity of Brown.


    Toure isn't the same kind of player, but he is levels above Fletcher as an actual footballer. Passing, shooting, dribbling, first touch, heading and so on, Yaya is top percentile per his position for all of them.
     
  17. GuruSky

    GuruSky Member

    Jan 7, 2004
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    How about Julian de Guzman?

    Outside of playing in La Liga, he hasn't been tested enough on top level despite his age (28), but he's certainly a warrior. He loves to take on the midfield battle, can break plays and is capable playing anywhere in midfield as well as playing on either side of the backline.

    I wouldn't say he's a top class passer, but he can sit deep in front of the backline and make simple passes. Deportivo La Coruna have been one of the best defensive clubs in La Liga over the past couple of seasons and he has been a huge part of it.

    His defensive attributions seem to be fully consolidated from what I've seen. The fact that he's a free agent this summer makes it even better, if a midfield warrior/utility man is what you guys are looking for.

    Perhaps his class isn't comparable to the likes of De Rossi, Essien and Mascherano, (although his work rate is undoubtedly comparable) but he's definitely someone worth bringing up.
     

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