Hey fellas. I'm a relatively new member to this board (joined after my home team Toronto FC joined the MLS...you know...the league where a dude by the name of David Bacon signed ). After signing up on this board, I discovered that Australia has a pretty good domestic league these days so I was wondering just how good it really is. I've just recently started following MLS and besides the passion that us Toronto fans have shown for the game of soccer, all the other MLS games seem as if they fail to attract a huge crowd. The quality of the play seems pretty good nonetheless. I would say that it is on par with the mid-level clubs in the English Coca-Coca Championship. I was wondering if you could say the same thing about your A-League. The reason why I'm asking all this is because recently I heard that Robbie Fowler is in discussions with Sydney FC. I wanted my team Toronto FC to sign him since we most definitely have the money and we could also use a good striker. I was wondering that if the choice came between Sydney FC and Toronto FC, where both organizations were to offer him the same amount of money and that the only factor would then become the quality of play, which league would he rather choose? P.S. Good luck on your A-League venture. Hope it fares well and it benefits Australia on the international stage.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" Yeah, i'd say the standard is about the same but with the mls level of play just a bit better. But i'd put that down to the A-League being only 2 seasons old. there are still players playign in lower divisions here who should be in the a-league and guys in the a-league who should be in lower divisions, once that has been ironed out it will get better. there have been alot of quality signings in this off-season so season 3 should be even better than season 2 and we should be averaging about 15,000 or more fans a game next season
Re: How Good is this "A-League" I was at Club World Cup in 2005 and seen Sydney FC of A-League VS Al Ahly the African champions. Sydney win 2-1 and the next season Al Ahly beat Mexican team, and Mexican team beats MLS teams usually. So maybe that is good measurer? It should be known that over 150+ Australian play overseason and if about 100 of them back in A-League, A-League would be much stronger. But each season, players come back from overseas bit by bit and A-League get stronger every season. Crowds also big, my team Melbourne Victory, last season we average 30,000 on match day. Next season, will be even more! And team like Wellington(used to be NZ Knights), Perth, and Newcastle should all have bigger crowds. And if team like Queensland can get better players they got potential for big crowds to like we seen in their last game of season when they draw against Sydney FC and get 35,000. And for such population country of Australia who like Rugby and Aussie Rules more, it's impressive.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" Most of the <insert big name player here> rumours are pure bs, Sydney have been linked with a fair few of big name players. Though I think Cocu is the only real one to come as of late that's got any promise to it. As for A-League standard, I'd say the Top 2-3 teams are at a good level and can match it with the biggest on the Asian stage. Melbourne are looking strong for the 07/08 season, also Sydney & Queensland look promising judging from pre-season recruitment.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" In terms of players signed at this very point, i'd say it goes.. 1.Melbourne 2.Adelaide 3.Newcastle 4.Sydney That's no offence to people of Newcastle and Sydney, they still have good players. Ofcourse, there is still plenty of time to sign players. And if Sydney end up getting Cocu they will be in the top 2 sides on paper.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" I wouldn't just base it on players- you have to take into consideration the manager of the team. If it was based on that- then Culina would get above Vidmar & Farina in the rankings. I can't comment on Merrick as he's gone from "Sack Merrick" two seasons ago to "Merrick's a genius" last season.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" I'm not, i'm just saying they are the best lists. Ofcourse other things come into consideration that will change where teams end up like coaches and injury.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" About on the same standard of the other big asian leagues and the MLS... but we lack the funds you guys have and don't really have many good foreign players which has become quite evident after watching the other asian teams in the ACL and their numerous south american players who have made a difference. Once a few of the overseas guys come home and get rid of the cap hopefully the standard will go up a lot.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" Alone on the Champions League they are awful, while I think Queensland have signed up some promising youngsters and potentially John Aloisi. Though I am sure that Adelaide will prove me wrong again and be consistent in the league, as per.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" What is the salary cap for the A-League? I think for the MLS, its $2.5 million (US), which is very low for big market teams such as Toronto, New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, but it is necessary for the survival of the league in general. I'm assuming that is the reason why its in place over in your league as well. And yeah, I'm hoping that a lot of Canadians over in Europe and South America come home to the MLS. It will not only help the league, but it will also benefit our lowly Mens' National team, which is in shambles right now. We keep on losing players like Owen Hargreaves and Jonathan De Guzman to European countries because our own national program is garbage. Strictly on a talent basis, we should be qualifying for the World Cup, but instead we are ranked 93rd in the world I like the fact that the Australian national program seems to be getting better and better by the year. I was rooting for your team during the World Cup in the game against Italy, partly because I wanted to rub it on the faces of all my Italian buddies. But alas your team just barely lost and Italy went on to lift the cup.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" AFAIK it is $1.8 million (AU) Yeah we got that problem too, last time I checked (about 2 months ago) there was something like 150 Australians playing overseas, and alot of them are above A-League quality, so it would only make the league stronger if most of them came back. Proof of this is in some of the players who decided to come back when the A-League started, you can tell they are a cut above.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" First season it was $1.5 million AUD, last season it was $1.6 million AUD, and as stated above its now $1.8 million for this years comp. Fitting under that cap is the fact that clubs will have to register a minimum 20-strong playing squad with a maximum of 23 players for the 2007-2008 season. Each club will be limited to a maximum of four foreign players and must register at least three under-20 players on their roster. link and another
Re: How Good is this "A-League" I am a Canadian (and Australian ... dual citizenship, but Canadian born) and have just returned to Australia 6 months ago from Montreal where I most recently living for 7 years. There is a gulf between Australia and Canada in interest level, standard of play, percentage participation, level of insight from TV commentators and tactical discussion amongst the general public with Soccer here having an interest level about equivelent to American Football in Canada. Aussie Rules in Melbourne / Rugby in Sydney are the equivelents of Hockey in Canada here. Soccer is the next rung down. It is a very different situation in Canada. Soccer was in the state it is in Canada in the early 80's in Australia where it had only recently started gaining significant air-time / mind-share of sports lovers. Very different situation now. Craig Forrest (Canadian chief analyst) is a goose, and Canada needs someone like Australia had in the 80's and 90's who really understood the game and pushed it into the consciousness (Johnny Warren). Do a google search on articles by Craig Foster, Australia's current version of Craig Forrest, and just behold the level of insight into the game, and preparedness to be controversial here. Also, you might be interested to hear that Canada is far from alone in loosing people like Hargreaves. In the Croatian national side at the world cup were 3 (THREE) Australians: Seric, Simunic and Didulica. Simunic was the guy that got 3 yellow cards. Born and bred in Canberra. Australia's verson of Hargreaves (first big Australian star and he defected) was Craig Johnston who played for Liverpool in the 80's where he was in the side that won the League championship, League Cup, European Cup, and FA cup double. Johnston scoring the winning goal in the 84 FA Cup. He represented England, not Australia. Salary cap is in no way a measure of the standard of the leagues. I would not compare the A-league to MLS based on salary cap. For example, Brazilian leagues are very low paid, as are Argentinian, Uruguayan, Colombian. Chinese and Japanese Leagues are high paid as compared to MLS / A-league. The quality of domestic league reflects the quality of the youth development system underneath it. It does not matter if a Chinaman playing for Shanghai makes 100 times what Riquelme is making at Boca Juniors, it does not make him better, or the league superior. Edit: You might enjoy this thread: https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10841119#post10841119
Re: How Good is this "A-League" Hey, good to see a Montreal guy giving his personal opinion. A very nice in-depth post I must say, regardless of the fact that I may disagree with a couple of your points on the other thread that you linked too. Oh, and one more thing. Seeing as how you have been in Australia for a while now, you might have been missing all the hoopla surrounding Toronto FC. Go on to the MLS section on this board to find out for yourself. Also, go to this link http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/streams/ through www.freeproxy.ca to watch the Toronto FC home games. The atmosphere has been ELECTRIC! You would be pleasently surprised.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" I seen one of the games, I wouldn't say it's "electric" as there wasn't really any chanting just oohing and aahing (but loud oohing and aahing at that ) but it was still fairly good for a new team.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" The stadium is 20,000, they have been filling it since they started playing.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" There have been only 3 games in the stadium so far (2 Toronto FC, 1 Canada U-20 v Argentina U-20 friendly) and they have all been sold out (max capacity 20,055 I believe). Now looking back at it, they might have to expand the capacity to 28,000 - 30,000 sometime during the next few years. I was left out in the cold without a season ticket because my friends took their sweet time trying to make their decision whether to buy the season tickets or not. When they finally made the decision, the season tickets were already all sold out and now there is a queue for it, depending on people who do not renew their tickets for next year.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" Look, I am Canadian - Australian, and I speak English with a medium Australian accent. I speak French with a Quebeqois accent. And you are right, I "root for" Quebec. I am sure Toronto has got behind the Toronto MLS team. It will take a while before it is the Blue Jays, or the Maple Leafs or even the Raptors. But leeching off the USA with Toronto money (and Australians need to understand that the greater Toronto Area including Peterboro, etc is twice the size of Sydney) is not real junior development, or development of the game at anything more than a commercial / spectator level. You guys (and us in Quebec is included) need to actually develop a taste and understanding for the game where "hockey-Dads" are not coaching u12's. The day that Toronto develops a Cahill or a Viduka, come see me. (And Viduka stepped straight out of the Melbourne leagues to Europe ready to kick 20 goals per season in the Premier League without needing any "academy time"). Look, I "root for" Canada in everything we do not compete with Australia for. And I want Canada to do well in soccer, as in everything else. But there is 3.5 spots for the world cup from North America. Being beaten to those spots by Costa Rica (an impoverished country of 3 million), and Trinidad & Tobago would be unacceptable to the Australian populace. Heads would roll. Money would be spent. #97 in the world would not be acceptable to Australia in Table-tennis. Now I am fully with Quebec, but hate my minority status as an anglo-phone. I would love it if this Toronto FC somehow influences even Ontario, and especially Quebec, and more than that, Montreal. The #97 is not completely unfair, you must admit. I love Canada, and want to see us there. We are in the easiest region of the world. FIFA give North America many spots to ensure the qualification os the USA. Canada should ride on the back of that and take that 3rd spot behind the US and Mexico. Question: Say they were to move the USA to an easier continent to make their way easier qualifying. Where would they go? Not Europe or South America, certainly. Asia? Against Japan, Korea, Australia, no way. Africa? Don't think that is guarenteed that they will beat Cote d'Ivoire or Cameroon or Ghana or even Togo. No, I think they are happy competing with El Salvidor, Honduras, Guatemala and Panama for THREE AND A HALF spots. The North American region is set up to be easy for them. Canada should qualify. Where is the outrage? Anyway, it is different here. I like that soccer is treated seriously. I will return to Canada. I hope this MLS thing changes it and soccer becomes a game you can discuss at a bar. Perhaps. Lets hope. I would love it. I love Canada.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" Good post once again, although I never implied that you root for Quebec or were calling for Rick Nash's head when he captained the Canadian side for IIHF . You are right however. MLS is not grass root soccer. However, recently MLS has put in a requirement, for which every team would have to create its own developmental system. But, you have to admit, it is a start. As much as participation in the grass roots level has never been a problem (there are more registered soccer players in Canada than any other sport, hockey included). The problem is that athletes branch off into other sports really quickly. The lack of exposure of top level soccer is the reason for that. European leagues isn't considered a practical goal and MLS is considered to lowly (atleast before Toronto FC was established). If in the long run, Toronto FC can even MATCH the exposure that the Raptors get (recently during their playoffs run, they were on the front page of every Toronto newspaper every day) it would be considered a success beyond all imaginations and it would do wonders for Canadian soccer. Secondly, the philosophy of development is completely different in North America. NCAA is considered the best platform before going pro. In Europe, development teams are considered such a platform. As great a platform it is for Football (American), Basketball, Baseball and sometimes hockey (although Canadian Junior hockey leagues are far superior in that regard), it is just not that competitive for soccer. If you pit a team of NCAA kids against a team of European youth clubs, the NCAA kids would be humbled. Ideally, a similar system would work wonders here in North America but the major concern is that if you're not good enough, you're left with nothing. At least you get free post-secondary education if you go the NCAA route. For some (like Owen Hargreaves) it is not a concern and it should come as little surprise that he has went on to become a world class player. In fact just recently, a friend of mine signed with AZ Alkmaar, and considering how poor he does academically, it is not exactly a bad decision either . Until this issue is addressed by soccer associations of Canada and USA, we can never be THAT competitive in international soccer. Thats just the nature of the beast. And also, I guess I should have called you long time ago . It looks as if you are unaware of the amount of talent in Toronto and GTA. Take a look at our Men's National Team. More than half the team is composed of players from this region. And unlike Owen Hargreaves, most of them are a product of our own leagues. Names like Paul Stalteri, Tomasz Radzinski and Atiba Hutchinson (possibly the best Canadian player in the world right now) among many others should be evidence. Montreal, and in fact pretty much every metro in North America, would do well to produce that many talented soccer players.
Re: How Good is this "A-League" yeah, it may be good idea doesn't toronto have over 7 million people? i find it really suprising that you guys only have a 20, 000 seater is soccer really that unpopular in toronto?
Re: How Good is this "A-League" huh? twice the size? toronto metro population is just over 5 million, and if you include Peterboro then by rights sydney should include the Central Coast and Newcastle!
Re: How Good is this "A-League" No, Peterboro, etc are like Paramatta, etc. Kind of centres unto themselves, but part of continuous urban development stretching from downtown Toronto. There are clear cows and highway between Sydney metro and Newcastle, Central Coast, etc.. Canada (and the USA) counts its Metro's differently to Australia. Hornsby, Paramatta, Penrith, etc would be counted outside Toronto if they were part of the Toronto Industrial Area in the Canadian method. It is inside greater metropolitan Sydney to Australian eyes, and obviously so. Same as Los Angeles. They say the population is about 4 million, but they are not counting the whole thing with Long Beach and Orange county, etc. Within about 60km radius of LA, all in continuous urban development is like 20 million people. They just like to split it up for the counting for some reason. I mean, they know these places are not fully separate like San Diego or San Francisco, but actually a part of the LA concentration, but they split it up anyway. How else do you think they get 300 million people into North America if their big cities are only 4 or 5 million people? They are not counting their city limits same. Toronto is not as big as LA or Chicago or NY, but it is a similar concept with a "Greater Toronto Area" (GTA) surrounded by built up residential areas that are not counted as Toronto but are still attached (like Paramatta is to Sydney, or Ringwood is to Melbourne), and eventually if you go far enough it turns into farms (for Australians, that is where the city ends), and the entire area and population and combined industry / commerce is absolutely HUGE.