A 16 team MLS

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by GoHawks4, Aug 13, 2002.

  1. GoHawks4

    GoHawks4 Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My ideal size for MLS would be 16 teams. 2 conferences with 2 divisions in each.

    Eastern Conference:
    ____________________
    Atlantic Division:

    MetroStars
    D.C. United
    New England Revolution
    An expansion team (take your pick)

    Midwest/Central Division:

    Chicago Fire
    Columbus Crew
    Kansas City Wizards
    Expansion team (St. Louis? Pennsylvania?)

    Weastern Conference:
    _____________________________
    Southwestern Division:

    Expansion (Whoever)
    Dallas Burn
    Colorado Rapids
    Expansion (OKLAHOMA, where the wind comes sweeping down the pitch)

    Pacific Division:

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Expansion
    Expansion









    What do you guys think?
     
  2. UncleSam527

    UncleSam527 Member

    Jan 14, 2002
    Expansion teams:
    East
    Rochester Raging Rhinos
    Milwaukee Rampage (IF they get their stadium)

    West
    Oklahoma SC
    Seattle Sounders
    "There are future rumors" to fill this void
     
  3. JG_Revs

    JG_Revs Moderator

    Sep 11, 1999
    Boston
    Moved from News/Analysis to MLS Expansion forum
     
  4. JMU Soccer!

    JMU Soccer! New Member

    Jul 19, 1999
    This is neither current news or analysis. Moved to the MLS Expansions and Stadiums forum.

    All the best.
     
  5. JMU Soccer!

    JMU Soccer! New Member

    Jul 19, 1999
    Heh heh, look like we found this at the same time JG Revs
     
  6. JG_Revs

    JG_Revs Moderator

    Sep 11, 1999
    Boston
    Step back sir, there's nothing to see here.




    I like the 16-team format, by the way. Let's hope it happens.
     
  7. BWMcTell

    BWMcTell New Member

    Jul 2, 2002
    NYC

    Truthfully, for one I dont like splitting the teams up into all those divisions. I almost prefer a single division over an East/West thing. Also, I dont know if well be seeing expansion in the near future. But there are plenty of good A-league teams out there I would like to see become part of MLS. It would be cool if we could develop some sort of relegation system but I dont think we're ready for that.
     
  8. Khansingh

    Khansingh New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    The Luton Palace
    Not until they change that name. Raging Rhinos? This is MLS, not Independent League Baseball. Lancers or Royals, take your pick.
     
  9. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Raging Rhinos is better than most of the names we already have in MLS -- it's better than Burn, Crew, Revolution, MetroStars, Rapids and United.
     
  10. Shredder

    Shredder New Member

    Feb 21, 2001
    DC United is the only name in MLS that is actually classy. However, I do agree that most of the other names are terrible.
     
  11. crestuden

    crestuden New Member

    Apr 5, 2001
    Splitting teams into 4 divisions might not mean anything other than helping for seeding in playoffs. In the NBA teams in the same division dont play each other any more than they play teams in the same conference.

    Atlantic
    DC United
    NE Revolution
    Metrostars
    Philly (Expansion)

    Central
    Chicago Fire
    Columbus Crew
    Kansas City Wizards
    St. Louis (Expansion)

    West
    LA Galaxy
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Seattle (Expansion)
    Anahiem (Expansion)

    Dirty Dirty
    Dallas Burn
    Atlanta (Expansion)
    NC Triangle (Expansion)
    OKC (Expansion)
     
  12. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I happen to like the name myself as well.

    It seems to me, though, that non-soccer types who are unfamiliar with Man United, Leeds United, etc might find the name odd.

    And weren't the various "United" clubs in Europe formed by merging two or more previously existing clubs?
     
  13. kb

    kb New Member

    Nov 23, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Somebody better tell Colorado the bad news about the 16 team league
     
  14. kasai

    kasai New Member

    Jul 15, 2002
    California
    LOL it makes a lot of sense to put two teams in the LA market, but nothing in San Diego..... This philosophy seems to be working really well for the NHL.....
     
  15. dawgpound2

    dawgpound2 Member

    Mar 3, 2001
    Los Angeles, CA
    I happen to believe that a 16-team MLS could be the place to start some relegation/promotion. NOTE: I am not a fan of pro/rel in correlation with the A-League.

    If MLS goes to 16 teams, you could technically have two 8-team tiers of the league.

    The teams could play a balanced schedule of 2 home/2 away versus each team (7x4 still equals the 28 game schedule).

    The bottom team of MLS1 goes down to MLS2, and the MLS2 champ moves up. MLS1 plays for the MLS Cup, and all teams particpate in the US Open Cup.

    If say Dallas and Chicago end up in different divisions, they could still settle their Brimstone Cup rivalry with a couple of scheduled "friendlies".

    Plus, I believe that as long as teams weren't relegated to the wasteland that is the A-League, fans would still be as passionate about their MLS2 clubs.
     
  16. dawgpound2

    dawgpound2 Member

    Mar 3, 2001
    Los Angeles, CA
    And, to along with my previous post, all 16 teams would still have the same salary cap, and still split revenue equally. This allows everyone in MLS1 and MLS2 to be on a level playing field competitively.
     
  17. TIKY

    TIKY New Member

    Apr 6, 2001
    San Diego
    Pro/Rel would NEVER work in the US

    I like the idea of a 16 team league with NO divisions! Single table PLEASE! If there was any question as to whether there should be a single table format, 2002 should eliminate all questions. The Metros seeded #2 when they'd be LAST in the West?! Gimme a break.

    I'd like to see some sort of punishment for the two bottom teams, like not being allowed to participate in tournaments, such as the US Open Cup.
     
  18. Khansingh

    Khansingh New Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    The Luton Palace
    Re: Pro/Rel would NEVER work in the US

    Give me a break. Western superiority isn't a permanent thing, it's a trend. The same thing is happening in the NHL and NBA. And remember when the NFC won 13 consecutive Super Bowls? Before that, the AFL/AFC had won twelve of the first eighteen. Now Baseball has one superior league, the American League. I'm not sure of the number, but I think it's something like 61 to 40. And for what it's worth, the National League won all three World Series against the American Association from 1883-1885.
     
  19. kcwizklein

    kcwizklein New Member

    Jul 23, 2002
    Kansas City
    i think that we should have 2 leagues but top 2 and bottom 2 move not just 1 and i think the mls 2 shouls have a smaller salary cap. To decide who goes where we should have a game againts each team. No ties shootouts for qualifing. And the tiebraker could be games won w/o shootout
     
  20. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't mind the idea of pro/rel. But I think as a fan, I might get tired of seeing my home team play against only 7 other teams in my "division". I like the idea of a larger league, where each home game is unique and therefore an event unto itself. I don't think it would be wise, though, to have pro/rel between two large divisions, because falling down in divisions could be a lot more permanent and damaging.

    I think that MLS should always play with 2 conferences, East and West, no matter how many teams it has (10, 16, 20, 24, whatever). You always play the teams in your conference twice. You play the teams in the other conference once, with half the non-conference games at home and half away. This is where the unbalance comes from, because some teams will have an easier home schedule overall or more difficult away schedule overall. There may also be some non-conference teams you play twice in order to fill out the schedule with more games.

    The East and West conference races will be decided by conference games only, the same way it is done in college football. So each conference will have its own single table. The conference winner will be declared champion based on a single table derived from conference games only and will receive a first round bye in the playoffs.

    The rest of the playoff spots will be determined by a single table which includes all games played. These standings will be determined by the unbalanced schedule.

    With up to 16 teams, I think that only the top 6 teams should make the playoffs: the conference winners plus the next four teams in the overall standings. With 18 teams or more, the top 8 teams can make it, with the two conference winners plus the next 6 in the overall standings.

    The playoffs would look like this with 6 teams:
    weekend 1:
    ... #6 at #3
    ... #5 at #4
    weekend 2:
    ... winner of 6v3 at #1
    ... winner of 5v4 at #2
    weekend 3:
    ... MLS Cup

    The playoffs would look like this with 8 teams:
    midweek before weekend 1:
    ... #8 at #5
    ... #7 at #6
    weekend 1:
    ... winner of 8v5 at #3
    ... winner of 7v6 at #4
    weekend 2:
    ... winner of 8v5v3 at #2
    ... winner of 7v6x4 at #1
    weekend 3:
    ... MLS Cup

    This creates two single-table races in each conference. One team wins, and it is a clear winner based on a balance schedule. Fans of the single-table gotta love that. :)

    This also allows enough teams into the playoffs so that most of the teams' fans can keep their hopes up throughout the season and there is something to fight for if you can't catch the lead team in your conference.

    This rewards teams for finishing high in the standings by granting them huge advantages in the playoffs, such as hosting playoff games and getting a bye to later rounds. And in the 8-team scenario, there is a difference between 3-4 and 5-8.

    The three races (two conferences and overall league) will give the fans a lot of exciting things to talk about and cheer for. I also think the later stages of the regular season will be more exciting because winning the conference really means something, and also since only half or less teams make the playoffs (except in the 6 out of 10 scenario, but close enough, right? :)).

    This scenario is adapatable for any even number of teams, from 10 up to 24.

    I wouldn't really go past 20 though, although 24 might be okay, but the league would have to be very stable econimically so that the worse teams don't decide to fold. A 20-team league would have 18 conference games, and 10 non-conference games, 28 overall (and you could add a few more games if you like). A 24-team league would have 22 conference games, 12 non-conference games, 34 overall. The playoffs are short and to the point, so more than 28 games in the season is doable.

    - Paul
     
  21. Crazy_Quakes_Fan

    Crazy_Quakes_Fan New Member

    Jul 23, 2002
    San Mateo, CA
    I'd love to see a sixteen (or more) MLS league more than anyone, but let's be realistic: This isn't going to happen for at least five years. If there was a MLS 1 and MLS 2 that would be equally as interesting. Relegation would be interesting, but would the casual American sports fan really understanding knocking down bad teams to a lesser division?

    Oh, and for the record, I'd prefer to see a single table league, none of this east/west stuff.
     
  22. O'Dubhghaill Rules!

    May 21, 2001
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    16 teams, 2 games against each team home and away = 30 games. I don't care about a single table or divisions it really doesn't matter to me. I could see a 16 team league up and running sometime between 2008-2010.

    New England
    MetroStars
    DC United
    Columbus
    Chicago
    Dallas
    LA
    San Jose
    Colorado
    Kansas City

    Plus 6 of these 7 possible expansion teams
    Oklahoma City
    Rochester
    Philadelphia
    Seattle
    San Diego
    Milwaukee
    Detroit

    And if there were to be Pro/Rel there's only 1 real way of splitting the league in half. Since not all 6 teams would be added at the same time, once the 16th team is added, give them a year to get organized and then use the following year's results to split the bottom 8 teams from the top 8. For example:

    Milwaukee is added for 2009 season, the results at the end of the 2010 season will decide who would go to MLS or MLS2.

    As for deciding an MLS Champion, take the top 4 teams and have there be a playoff. The bottom 2 teams in MLS and the top 2 teams in MLS2 would get promote/relegated.
     
  23. crestuden

    crestuden New Member

    Apr 5, 2001
    It'll be a cold day in hell before Colorado is in my 16 team league.
     
  24. dl

    dl New Member

    Sep 16, 2000
    Cambridge, MA
    Re: Pro/Rel would NEVER work in the US

    I agree that there should be some sort of punishment for the lower teams, but I think it's stupid for some of the MLS teams to be excluded from Open Cup. It goes against the entire design of an Open Cup tourney. Maybe the lower teams should have to join the tourney earlier.
     
  25. dl

    dl New Member

    Sep 16, 2000
    Cambridge, MA
    Not a bad list. I also like Portland and Houston. All of these of course contingent on stadia.
     

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