Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 Part II[R]

Furnaccio · Dec 31, 2010

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

hey guys - just wanted to wish the regulars on here a happy new year. it's been fun chatting with everyone here, no matter how different some of our opinions are.

best wishes for all in 2011 - with that said, i just moved to NYC so if anyone wants to watch a game in the city, hit me up!

cheers

Dr. Know · Jan 1, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

Tevez had a horrible match today. He missed a PK, missed like 3 sitters, constantly lost the ball, was selfish, etc..

Zabaleta did pretty well.

Siempre_Albiceleste · Jan 1, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

NYC_COSMOS said: ↑

lol lol lol lol You are invited to my house any day of the week, lol You still owe me, we have to watch a game together at least once!

Mesh with the formation put out by the DT (Basile, Pekerman and Diego). By meshing I mean that he can work well within the given system and then be able to bring out his full potential.

With respect to your second question, I'm not looking to compare Messi with someone else. At least it wasn't my premise to compare him to anyone. I was only comparing Messi to himself. Argentine NT vs Barcelona.

I know this is going to take us off topic a bit but Ill bite.

Players that meshed:
Heinze
Tevez
Mascherano
Veron
Palermo
Papa

The above played to their potential mistakes and all.

Messi gelled with the team against Mexico in the 2007 Copa America.
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First off, sorry for the long wait in replying...Life is crazy! Happy New Year to you and yours. I wish you the best 2011 possible. I will definitely watch a game with you someday, after I start having a life again...Meaning, after my daughter starts letting me have a life again. It would be fun, although I would prefer for it to be at actual game. Like I said before, we probably ran into one another at the USA game couple of years ago w/o knowing it.

As to your point about Messi gelling, I will say that under Pekerman & Basile, there was a plan that he didn't quite fit in with. With Pekerman, he simply wasn't Messi yet and didn't have enough opportunities as he was just breakign in. So you can't blame him there. With Basile, he gained more traction, but there again, he wasn't the Messi of today yet. He was asked to play a role on the team that he wasn't quite comfortable with. The problem was his passing wasn't quite good enough nor was his movement off the ball for it to work perfectly with Roman. He needed to take a page out of Saviola's book, but still, I think his form on the NT wasn't THAT FAR off from where it was at Barca at the time.

Fast forward to the time of Maradona. By that time, Messi was clearly the best player on the planet. And with Riquelme out of the way (partly Messi's fault and I do put blame on him for that), the team was supposed to be about Messi. Alas, I don't think Maradona ever articulated a plan that could ever work for either Messi or ANYONE on the team for that matter. I definitely disagree with the players you list as having meshed with the team.
Heinze = Hmmm...What did he do? Complete disaster at times, although he gets more blame than he deserves. But how was he ever a standout???
Tevez = Produced even less than Messi. For the most part, he just ran around the field with no direction. Love him but certainly never gelled.
Mascherano = His form had really dipped, especially after Roman leaving. Again, from that point forward, he didn't have a system that really worked for him...Too exposed and overworked.
Veron = Did Veron ever really do his job on this team? No. At least, not for any extended period of time. How many assists did he produce? How organized did the attack look under him? Seriously, did his form for the NT come close to his form at Estudiantes? That's a big NO.
Palermo = You know I love el Loco, but you've gotta be kidding
Papa = Ditto. You might as well have included the train wreck that Otamendi was. Papa was a big Zero.

All this to highlight the fact that there is something systematically wrong with the team, and it has gotten progressively worse (I'm talking about up to the point Checho took over. He still needs time to see what he'll produce). It's not a question of Messi gelling with team...NO ONE HAS. The team went from not being able to win the big games to a team with no direction; one that you could never know what to expect from them. And of a rash of disappointing performers, he's actually been the best. Not good enough but his deficiencies HAVE to be framed in the larger context of the overall team struggles.

Siempre_Albiceleste · Jan 1, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

I wish a Happy New Year to all of you, fellow posters! May you have a healthy a prosperous 2011.
Above all, I wish that the team that we all love so much will take long strides towards putting it all together and start a run of dominance that will bring us unbriddled joy for years & decades to come.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

W.Lewin · Jan 1, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

I really hope S.Batista comes through. How do you think he's doing so far? Beating the world champs 4-1, losing to Japan 1-0, beating Ireland 1-0 and the first win against Brazil in 5 years, 1-0.

It also seems he has a plan, it's basically trying to find technically good players, not putting (any) emphasis on physical strength.

Rattlehead · Jan 2, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

Dr. Know said: ↑

Tevez had a horrible match today. He missed a PK, missed like 3 sitters, constantly lost the ball, was selfish, etc..

Zabaleta did pretty well.
Click to expand...

Striker needs to be opportunistic, he looks selfish because those 4-5 chances doesnt turn into a goal... in his previous match he scored 2 goals and set up one and his first goal came in less than 5 mins, pratically his first shot. David Silva also missed 2 sitters, one of them which was beautifully setup by Tevez

Hell, I think all the city players are wasting their chances yesterday, even the goal came from deflection.

Rattlehead · Jan 2, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

W.Lewin said: ↑

I really hope S.Batista comes through. How do you think he's doing so far? Beating the world champs 4-1, losing to Japan 1-0, beating Ireland 1-0 and the first win against Brazil in 5 years, 1-0.

It also seems he has a plan, it's basically trying to find technically good players, not putting (any) emphasis on physical strength.
Click to expand...

I didnt watch the game against Japan but the side that played against Japan I think is very different then the one that played against Spain. I dont think Tevez & Aguero play, and Di Maria and Higuain also didnt start, not sure if there's Cambiasso and others.

Againts Brazil though, Romero unexpectedly turned into something different

Rattlehead · Jan 2, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

Siempre_Albiceleste said: ↑

As to your point about Messi gelling, I will say that under Pekerman & Basile, there was a plan that he didn't quite fit in with. With Pekerman, he simply wasn't Messi yet and didn't have enough opportunities as he was just breakign in. So you can't blame him there. With Basile, he gained more traction, but there again, he wasn't the Messi of today yet. He was asked to play a role on the team that he wasn't quite comfortable with. The problem was his passing wasn't quite good enough nor was his movement off the ball for it to work perfectly with Roman. He needed to take a page out of Saviola's book, but still, I think his form on the NT wasn't THAT FAR off from where it was at Barca at the time.

Fast forward to the time of Maradona. By that time, Messi was clearly the best player on the planet. And with Riquelme out of the way (partly Messi's fault and I do put blame on him for that), the team was supposed to be about Messi. Alas, I don't think Maradona ever articulated a plan that could ever work for either Messi or ANYONE on the team for that matter. I definitely disagree with the players you list as having meshed with the team.
Heinze = Hmmm...What did he do? Complete disaster at times, although he gets more blame than he deserves. But how was he ever a standout???
Tevez = Produced even less than Messi. For the most part, he just ran around the field with no direction. Love him but certainly never gelled.
Mascherano = His form had really dipped, especially after Roman leaving. Again, from that point forward, he didn't have a system that really worked for him...Too exposed and overworked.
Veron = Did Veron ever really do his job on this team? No. At least, not for any extended period of time. How many assists did he produce? How organized did the attack look under him? Seriously, did his form for the NT come close to his form at Estudiantes? That's a big NO.
Palermo = You know I love el Loco, but you've gotta be kidding
Papa = Ditto. You might as well have included the train wreck that Otamendi was. Papa was a big Zero.

All this to highlight the fact that there is something systematically wrong with the team, and it has gotten progressively worse (I'm talking about up to the point Checho took over. He still needs time to see what he'll produce). It's not a question of Messi gelling with team...NO ONE HAS. The team went from not being able to win the big games to a team with no direction; one that you could never know what to expect from them. And of a rash of disappointing performers, he's actually been the best. Not good enough but his deficiencies HAVE to be framed in the larger context of the overall team struggles.
Click to expand...

I agree that Messi has yet to become best player on the planet during Pekerman and Basile period, although he was voted as second best player already but he's still only 18-21 years old at the time.... you cant expect someone that young to became Superman and lead a sinking ship to winning a thropy, that's impossible. It was during Diego era where he actually became a machine gun and scoring 38 & 47 goals, but Diego has a backward brain as a coach... you cant be a serious coach when you play against Germany and left behind 4 main players that beat Bayern Munich in CL final.

SupaMario · Jan 3, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

Higuain is done for the season. Who knows if he will be ready for Copa America.

Andrés_ · Jan 3, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

He won't apparently.

Rattlehead · Jan 3, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

now its interesting to see who will be the 9 on copa america, I expect Lisandro Lopez and Hernan Crespo could fill that role... I dont mind to see Crespo cause he;s still banging goals this season and he always scored in national team.

I'm not if Diego Milito will ever fit the Argentina team, even the last time he scored, it was from lucky setup from the GK and also took deflection.

Andrés_ · Jan 3, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

According Batista in some interviews he said the first replacement for Higuaín is Tévez. Let's see if he changes his mind until the thing starts, we'll more likely get an idea in the friendly against Portugal. Man, that match cannot be any more interesting, can it?

By the way look at this: http://www.afa.org.ar/index.php?opt...en-ezeiza&catid=164:seleccion-mayor&Itemid=66

Los jugadores Diego y Gabriel Milito, Nicolás Pareja, Javier Zanetti, Nicolás Burdisso y Fernando Gago,realizaron voluntariamente, trabajos físicos de mantenimiento, con el profesor Alejandro Tocalli.
Como la mayoría de los jugadores regresan en las próximas horas a las distintos destinos europeos, donde residen, ayer fue el último día de trabajo por este año en el Complejo Habitacional de Ezeiza.
Click to expand...

Interesting, huh?

SupaMario · Jan 4, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

Just wondering has Pablo Osvaldo ever been brought up by Batista? I hear he is doing well in La Liga. I know he has played for the Italian U-21 team but he is our property. I wish we had a game we could test him out. I know Batista is thinking about using Tevez in replace of Pipita but Osvaldo might be a player that I would like to be tried out. I mean before anything I would like to see Lisandro given a starting role. But maybe another #9 just for a backup.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRbF1Qauz9Q"]YouTube - Pablo Daniel Osvaldo metralleta 17# 1° Parte[/ame]

Siempre_Albiceleste · Jan 4, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

I really hope that Batista doesn't follow through with this nonsense of plugging in Tevez for Higuain. This is the perfect time to see what Lisandro can provide to this team, if anything. And if it is not to be Lisandro, let it at least be someone who will provide this team with some semblance of a threat in the air. This team has been so predictable offensively. I'd take someone substantially less talented at this juncture if he is proficient in the air
Not that I would do away with Tevez, but I don't think putting him in for Pipa is his place.

msi2 · Jan 4, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

SupaMario said: ↑

Just wondering has Pablo Osvaldo ever been brought up by Batista? I hear he is doing well in La Liga. I know he has played for the Italian U-21 team but he is our property. I wish we had a game we could test him out. I know Batista is thinking about using Tevez in replace of Pipita but Osvaldo might be a player that I would like to be tried out. I mean before anything I would like to see Lisandro given a starting role. But maybe another #9 just for a backup.

YouTube - Pablo Daniel Osvaldo metralleta 17# 1° Parte
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The last time i heard him talking about the NT, he looked like someone who had a very distant interest in it... In other words, forget about him.

JollyJumper · Jan 4, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

After Batigol and Crespo, nobody in the NT has a good appearance-to-goal ratio besides Pipita. Taken from Wikipedia:

Pipita:
2009– Argentina 13 (7)

Diego Milito:
2003– Argentina 24 (4)

Kun: 2006– Argentina 25 (9)

Tevez: 2004– Argentina 58 (12)

Messi: 2005– Argentina 53 (15)

Licha: 2005– Argentina 7 (1)

Saviola: 2001–2007 Argentina 40 (11)

It's sad, considering the amazing talent these players have. I hope Pipita recovers in time for Copa America.

haihaihai · Jan 4, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

I would leave the door open for Osvaldo. He is a very good player.
But Licha is the priority, especially now with Higuain's injury. No to Tevez in that role. It has been tried and tested, and has failed everytime. Not Aguero-Messi-Tevez either.
I hope Boselli's move to Bari finalizes. He is a good player to have under the radar if he recovers his scoring touch.

Sadly, there aren't ANY striking options home. All blossoming players are either enganches or support forwards, no strikers. Was hoping for Viola to develop nicely, but hasn't made any noise yet. Funes is just too unclinical in front of goal, even for a 19 year old.

Rattlehead · Jan 4, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

JollyJumper said: ↑

After Batigol and Crespo, nobody in the NT has a good appearance-to-goal ratio besides Pipita. Taken from Wikipedia:

Pipita:
2009– Argentina 13 (7)

Diego Milito:
2003– Argentina 24 (4)

Kun: 2006– Argentina 25 (9)

Tevez: 2004– Argentina 58 (12)

Messi: 2005– Argentina 53 (15)

Licha: 2005– Argentina 7 (1)

Saviola: 2001–2007 Argentina 40 (11)

It's sad, considering the amazing talent these players have. I hope Pipita recovers in time for Copa America.
Click to expand...

actually its kind odd that when you look at the all time top scorer in Argentina national team, not many players scored more than 20 goals

it seems that the pattern continue

although in the world cup statistic, Argentina rank 4th both in winning record and goal total (almost surpase Italy in goal total). Messi certainly will be the 10th player to hit at least 20 goals in national team as he already has 15 at 23 years old.

W.Lewin · Jan 5, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

Siempre_Albiceleste said: ↑

I really hope that Batista doesn't follow through with this nonsense of plugging in Tevez for Higuain. This is the perfect time to see what Lisandro can provide to this team, if anything. And if it is not to be Lisandro, let it at least be someone who will provide this team with some semblance of a threat in the air. This team has been so predictable offensively. I'd take someone substantially less talented at this juncture if he is proficient in the air
Not that I would do away with Tevez, but I don't think putting him in for Pipa is his place.
Click to expand...

I'm more worried about Riquelme's replacement.

Volrath · Jan 5, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

JollyJumper said: ↑

After Batigol and Crespo, nobody in the NT has a good appearance-to-goal ratio besides Pipita. Taken from Wikipedia:
.
.
.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting Luciano Figueroa

15 games, 9 goals

I had such high hopes for the guy.

Rattlehead · Jan 5, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

Cesar Delgado is great during 2003-2004, whatever happen to that guy

SupaMario · Jan 5, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

Rattlehead said: ↑

Cesar Delgado is great during 2003-2004, whatever happen to that guy
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Last great game that I saw of him was vs Madrid last season in the CL. Chelito is a good player but I have not followed Ligue 1 for a while, however I have not heard much about him this season.

Albiceleste2010 · Jan 5, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

msi2 said: ↑

The last time i heard him talking about the NT, he looked like someone who had a very distant interest in it... In other words, forget about him.
Click to expand...

I would not be so dismissive with the paucity of '9's at present having already lost Barrios.

He has really settled well at Espanyol and is an excellent predator and finisher and Pochettino is his manager.

If I were Checho I'd be hot footing it to Catalonia to speak with him and offer him his cap.

He may have played for Italy u21 and did not settle with the Viola but under the new FIFA rules he can play for us.

Chelito Delgado had an excellent season last year if I remember rightly creating a number of assists and being a tricky customer down the Lyon left in an attacking role.

Not seen much of him this season.

Mori is still too raw. Cavegol needs to get games under his belt. And with the type of injury Higuain has it may affect him in future. So all options need to be kept open.

Siempre_Albiceleste · Jan 5, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

W.Lewin said: ↑

I'm more worried about Riquelme's replacement.
Click to expand...

That's a whole other can of worms. Since Roman has not been in the team for a while now, I don't think we can talk of replacing him. But you are right because since he left, he has not been replaced properly. I'm confident Batista will find the answer there...in time.

Rattlehead · Jan 5, 2011

Re: Año Nuevo, vida nueva - the Argentine NT News, Stats & Players thread 2010-2011 [R]

Messi assisted Barca's winner
Barcelona progressed to final 8 in copa del rey

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj9QelKCAzk"]YouTube - ‫??? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? .... 5 - 1 - 2011 .... Éric Abidal‬&lrm;[/ame]

Messi has 13 assist so far this season