9/10/07 Collinsville City Council Meeting [Merged]

Discussion in 'St. Louis City SC' started by sirfallsalot_2000, Sep 7, 2007.

  1. SoccerYoda

    SoccerYoda New Member

    Aug 14, 2007
    O'Fallon, MO USA
    My head just exploded. :eek: I'm not smart enough to follow all that.

    Just let me know when Garber makes an announcement. :D
     
  2. 400lb Gorilla

    400lb Gorilla Member

    Sep 1, 2006
    Missouri
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you misunderstood him (or I did), the competition isn't for the stadium, it's for getting new residents and business. The stadium would help this, which is something the other two towns would not have.
     
  3. Gooch13

    Gooch13 New Member

    Mar 29, 2007
    St. Louis, MO
    Fair enough.

    How many kids really depends on what type of units one puts into the development. If it's all single family homes in the 150-200 K range, you are going to see primarily young families (read: at least one child). That would be more like 1500-1600 children. With an operating expense of $7500 per student, that's in excess of $1 million -- annually.

    Again, I'm all for the project. You just can't ignore the public policy effects, however. A healthy school district has to take priority over a soccer team.
     
  4. sillinois

    sillinois New Member

    Feb 28, 2007
    Gooch, I certainly see you point about the school district and it is a legitimate concern. I think what is likely to happen over time is a small increase in the property tax on the rest of the school district to make up for the TIF. No one wants to say that now, but you have to make up the money somhow.

    Another possibility, which is very real, is more development around this development. There is a lot of open space near where Cooper is putting this thing, so I expect to see a lot more development in those areas increasing the property tax base. Many of those developments will be business which pay taxes but don't contribute kids. Also, I think most of the development in this area will be higher than the 150-200K, including potential surrounding developments. 200K doesn't buy you much of a house anymore. With all the amenities this location offers, I see houses in this development going for near the 300K range. Nice, 2 story homes on small lots.

    I am an educator, so I care deeply about schools. But, we all know that schools take a backseat to business development in this country. And, really, I am not all that upset by that. In the long run, this project will mean more money for Collinsville school district. Sure it may take 30 years to see direct revenue from the stadium and this 400 acres, but bringing in a signature project to a town like Collinsville is going to have an uplifting affect on the whole city. I think you will see property values rise all over Collinsville when this thing gets rolling. That will increase school funding right there and may actually get you the millions you are looking for. But, if necessary, take up the property tax rate a little. Compared to what people are paying in other parts of Southern Illinois, the property tax rate in the Metro East is already very low (well, except East Saint Louis, etc).

    I think the school is upset about the very near term, but long term, I am sure they support this project. The teacher's union only cares about negotiating its next contract, so they are very short-term minded. But, as a educational policy guy, long term, I am telling you this is good for Collinsville's schools.
     
  5. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. Seph

    Seph Member

    Dec 2, 2004
    St. Louis, Mo., USA
    Club:
    St. Louis Lions
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, that's exactly what I meant. The appeal of the project for Collinsville is that it will make them the big deal among a number of east side localities that are otherwise very similar in the eyes of many people here on the west side of the river.
     
  7. jimmyodonnell

    jimmyodonnell Member

    May 1, 2003
    Backing up a step . . . this comment was posted in response to earlier posts about whether the stadium's residential component was crucial to its support / opposition.

    I think the primary appeal to Collinsville would be the name recognition and awareness it would get through the exposure the stadium gets. That would hopefully inspire some growth, both residential and commercial. AND, if you build 1600 new houses at the stadium complex, surely some people will move in there. Also, you have the commercial tax revenues from the hotels, the office space, the retail space, etc . . . all those will benefit Collinsville too, you hope.

    However, if the only opposition currently voiced is in opposition to JUST the residential growth and its stress on the school system, I'd tear that page right out of the proposal and skip the headache . . . and maybe that's already the plan (?). If the school district cannot handle the additional families moving into Collinsville, then I'd stay the hell out of that one and make sure the stadium complex is mostly self-sustaining. The last thing you need is a PR fight with Concerned Parents for SchoolKids claiming that big business & lawyers are building a stadium at the expense of the schools.
     
  8. Monarch Bay Beachbum

    Apr 5, 2004
    The OC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am absolutely amazed at this discussion.

    Schools are supposed to be supported by local property taxes. 1600 new homes will be created in Collinsville and will therefore be paying property taxes to support the local schools.
     
  9. fscat

    fscat Member

    May 2, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    One question concerning the Collinsville location. One fault some of these teams that have SSS have come upon are the remote locations. Toyota Park being in the SW suburbs of Chicago (it takes me a good hour to get there from the North Side), Home Depot Center in Carson for the LA Galaxy and Chivas USA (I hear a good 1 1/2 hour drive from the Santa Monica part of LA, and Pizza Hut Park in Frisco for FC Dallas (a good 1 1/2 hour drive supposedly from downtown Dallas).
    Is Collinsville going to be a hike for people who actually live in Mizzou/St. Louis? Or is it more accessible than some of these other stadiums, something akin to BMO Field in Toronto?
     
  10. Seph

    Seph Member

    Dec 2, 2004
    St. Louis, Mo., USA
    Club:
    St. Louis Lions
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, the TIF district being created means that property tax money will be used to repay the city for the infrastructure upgrades and bonds associated with the stadium. It will not be used for schools like normal property tax, and therein lies the complaint.

    It doesn't matter, however, after last night. It's all happening anyway.
     
  11. Seph

    Seph Member

    Dec 2, 2004
    St. Louis, Mo., USA
    Club:
    St. Louis Lions
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I live in South St. Louis County, and it's about 35 or 40 minutes from home for me, but last night I came straight from coaching a game in downtown St. Louis to the Collinsville city council meeting and it only took about 20 minutes.
     
  12. jimmyodonnell

    jimmyodonnell Member

    May 1, 2003
    Great! Done. Let's get that over to the school board, they'll be glad to hear it.
    Whew, that was a close one . . . OK, what's next?
     
  13. fscat

    fscat Member

    May 2, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    So if and when this happens, and you guys are one of the lucky ones to get a MLS franchise, do you foresee traffic problems once you get close to the stadium. We have problems like that here with the Fire.
     
  14. jasontoon

    jasontoon Member

    Jan 9, 2002
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I live in St. Louis city (specifically the south side, even more specifically the Tower Grove neighborhood) and drive to Collinsville often because my wife's grandmother lives there. We usually give ourselves about half an hour to get from our door to her grandma's. Last night it took me 20 minutes to get from my house to Collinsville City Hall, which is closer than her house.

    With the stadium just off the highway, I can't imagine it'll take me longer than that to get there. It's nothing like Frisco or Carson, but Bridgeview might be a better comparison in terms of Collinsville's location relative to downtown. There will be some fans who have to drive an hour to make it, but for the vast majority we're talking 40 minutes, tops. And for people like me, far less.

    I wish the location was more like BMO, of course...
     
  15. IlliniOnFire

    IlliniOnFire Hostile AND Abusive

    Oct 8, 2006
    Southern Illinois
    Unless money for schools is included in the TIF agreement, the school district won't get 1 single red cent from those 1600 new homes in property taxes (which would be a disaster for them).

    A TIF district freezes all taxes given to outside taxing bodies, and any new taxes generated by the development go directly into the TIF account.

    As far as property taxes go, the school district will be getting 23 years of taxes on undeveloped floodplain farmland... even though there's a soccer stadium, over a thousand homes, business, etc on the land.

    In 1999 the state changed TIF laws to require that any new students generated by a TIF development must be paid for through TIF funds. The school district has to negotiate what that amount is with the city, and it has some potential to get ugly.

    Ultimately, the school district is going to get less money than they would receive without the TIF district (of course at the same time, the development would not happen BUT FOR the TIF district being formed).

    Most school districts take the stance that TIF districts for commercial/industrial development are ok, and TIF districts for residential developments are very bad.
     
  16. Schwalker

    Schwalker New Member

    Apr 15, 2007
    Gelsenkirchen/Finja
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    First of all...Congrats everyone!

    The second phase is completed, so now you can just wait for MLS to confirm your status..Which actually is a formality more or less, things don´t go this far without Cooper having the blessing of the MLS brass.
    Otherwise St.Louis would be in Vancouvers position more or less...i.e Nice plans, spectacular stadium ideas but MLS is not likely to happen within a couple of years
     
  17. KeeperDad30

    KeeperDad30 Member

    Jul 14, 2006
    Lincoln, NE
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok. Here is a map showing the population density from the 2000 census that I have edited to show the main interstates and the location of the Collinsville Stadium. (Click the image for a larger version)

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, there is easy access from all of St. Louis county and St. Charles county via I-270 either North to I-255 or South to I-255.

    Getting to the game should not be a problem for most of the fans.

    I live is Southwest St. Louis County and it takes me about 30-35 minutes to get to Collinsville.
     
  18. NCTorontoFan

    NCTorontoFan New Member

    Jun 10, 2007
    North Carolina
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really hope it goes through for St. Louis. Great sports town, great soccer town, would be a perfect addition to MLS.
     
  19. fscat

    fscat Member

    May 2, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    Yeah I like the idea too. A natural close rival with the Fire, the history of St. Louis and soccer, and they seem to really support their teams, especially those stupid Cardinals (I'm a Cubs fan :D).
     
  20. RedRover

    RedRover BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 15, 2007
    Well, congratulations are in order for the soccer faithful in St. Louis. While this doesn't automatically get the city into MLS, it would be safe to assume that your chances skyrocketed with the vote passing.
     
  21. StarvedPolygamist

    StarvedPolygamist New Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    St. Louis
    Oh happy day, and cheers to those who made it to the meeting, particularly the one in the Newcastle shirt :) (never thought I'd be rooting for a Big Sam-managed team).

    That Fox2 scene was great, with all the supporters in the background. I am a bit irked, though, that they chose the stereotypical kids' soccer practice as their footage rather than, I don't know, B-roll from the actual league that this soccer stadium development is about! I mean, if you're telling your viewers about a stadium deal, why not run footage of the league the stadium would host? It doesn't even have to be a Beckham shot, ha ha.

    But I'll stop whining -- today is not the day to bemoan soccer's portrayal in mainstream media. No today I'm raising a glass to Jeff Cooper.
     
  22. SoccerYoda

    SoccerYoda New Member

    Aug 14, 2007
    O'Fallon, MO USA
    I didn't get to see any of the news footage and haven't read it here... how many 'supporters' made it out there last night?
     
  23. StarvedPolygamist

    StarvedPolygamist New Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    St. Louis
    I couldn't make it there myself, so I don't know. The report I saw had the on-site reporter reading parts of his story with a group of fans in the background chanting to the beat of a drum (on queue for his filming, obviously, but hey, it's TV):

    http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/...Y&pageId=1.1.1
     
  24. 400lb Gorilla

    400lb Gorilla Member

    Sep 1, 2006
    Missouri
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's bad is we tried to start early for it not to look like we were waiting for filming to start, we even specificly discussed it during the package. But I guess it didn't work, I actualy laughed when i first saw the video about how far behind the start we were.
     
  25. jasontoon

    jasontoon Member

    Jan 9, 2002
    Seattle, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, hey, it was cool meeting a bunch of you guys last night (and chanting for the cameras, heh). Wish I could've gone out for that beer afterwards.
     

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