Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? Not necessarily. Consider Davy Arnaud. He played 43 minutes in 2002. Now he's a solid starter. Most MLS teams have a couple of guys who've played a handful of minutes.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? I was going to mention Arnaud as my prime example of the succes of the developmental spots. He might not have made it into MLS without them. We probably would have never heard of him, coming out of a non Division 1 program. Would he have gone into the A-League? If so, would he have eventually made MLS? I'm not so sure. Given the choice of a MLS roster spot versus going A-League, I think the former gives a better yield of the top young American players going pro. That's hard to PROVE either way. I had a high school teammate drop off the Charleston Battery despite being a solid starter at about age 22 cause he was having a kid and didn't think pro soccer was going to cut it as a career. I don't know if he'd have felt different if on a MLS roster makign dev pay, but I think I would. By age 25 you know if you'll cut it at pro soccer. Does MLS really scout the A-League much at all?
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? I only listed the stadiums that exist or are under construction. While Bridgeview, Commerce City, and Harrison are all "on the way", bulldozers have yet to roll in any of those locations. DC's Poplar Park (I forget) is still just a pipe dream. I would actually put the Earthquakes franchise next in line whether it's in the bay area or Texas. Then, of course, there's RSL. But the fact is, not only don't any of these stadiums exist, they're not under construction.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? You're right, I over looked this before. Glad it will most likely get expanded.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? I think some of the confusion came from the fact that Nike is still paying for USSF's residential development program, currently at the IMG Academy in Bradenton, FL.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? Playing soccer day in and day out is what any professional player needs. The A-League is professional and it is good players are playing day in and day out. As another poster pointed out the A-League has suplied many players to MLS, including; Brian Ching, Pat Onstead, Jon Busch, Jimmy Conrad, Troy Dayak. Need I say more, I only made it through the D's? Those are a few of the big names in the league. Maybe they weren't ready for pro soccer right away. A few years in the A-League helped them mature into good players. Your faith should be restored.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? Right, then look at what it took to get there. It took years of at least decent management, spending money they didn't have in hope of getting a return some time in the future, cooperation with/from local governments, and even more investment in the form of the stadium. It also didn't hurt last year that they hosted the all-star game and MLS Cup, and worked the market to host other events. The L.A. market also has several small TV stations that only broadcast to a small swath of the market. These stations are much more widely available on some cable systems in the market. Galaxy games have been an excellent solution to their search for something to put on the air. Every market has its advantages and disadvantages, and the Galaxy have done a great job exploiting the advantages.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? I hope the A-League succeeds and it has a few quality teams, but it's not enough for me. Reserve teams are needed to get MLS guys 13-18 on the roster minutes after sitting on the bench Saturday. Ching and Dayak were in MLS first. Ching played how many A-League games? Dayak is unique with injuries. Ching would have stayed up in MLS if rosters hadn't have been so tight for those few years. Onstad and De Rosario being Canadian are a different situtation. In general GK's are since the US is so deep at the position and being second string sucks so much (especially without reserve squads). Saunders chose A-Leauge over MLS for that reason. Conrad might be the best example of A-League developing a player but how long was he in A-League?
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? A-League Experience: Brian Ching: Ching played the entire 2002 season with the Seattle Sounders of the A-League ... Member of the 2002 A-League All-League Team ... Selected to the A-League Team of the Week four times in 2002 (5/8, 6/17, 7/1, 7/9) ... Scored 16 goals and registered eight assists for Seattle in 2002 ... Ranked second in the A-League in scoring, fourth in assists and third in shots in 2002. In 2001 Ching played 8 games for the Galaxy. His development came from his time in the A-League as he was judged by the Galaxy to not be ready for MLS. He had a good 2002 season in Seattle and then came back to MLS in 2003 with the Quakes. Without this year in the A-League he would have sat on the bench, not gotten playing time and probably would have dropped out of the league. After 2001 the Galaxy were done with him, without the A-League he wouldn't have gotten a second chance. Troy Dayak: Appeared in 27 games in 2000 as player/assistant coach for the Bay Area Seals ... Scored four goals and notched four assists for 12 points ... One of top scorers among defenders in A-League ... During 1999 A-League season suffered season-ending right knee injury, tearing the posterior cruciate ligament and the medial collateral ligament in third game of season with the San Francisco Bay Seals ... At age 17, became youngest player ever to sign in the American Professional Soccer League (APSL), the highest level of soccer in the United States at the time, signing with the San Francisco Bay Blackhawks ... Helped Blackhawks win the APSL Championship in 1991 ... Played with the Cleveland Crunch (indoor) of the National Professional Soccer League (NPSL) during 1993-1994 season, helping lead them to the title ... Part of San Jose Grizzlies indoor team in 1995. Troy started out in lower semi-pro leagues before MLS. At the time MLS was just starting. He went back in 1999 and 2000. Again, without a second chance in the A-League he probably would not have kept playing professional soccer. Without a league to play in while recovering from an injury I doubt anyone could say this, "2001: Enjoyed an amazing return to MLS after a two-year absence due to a bulging disk in his neck ... Named the ACE Comeback Player of the Year for his stellar play." Those are two examples. Without time in the A-League none of the players I mentioned would have made it into MLS, or back into MLS, because they wouldn't be playing on a regular basis at a high level. MLS teams are not just going to pick up players who are sitting around doing nothing. Ok, the Rapids might but that is besides the point.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? I'm not sure I understand you; this sounds contradictory. How can MLS develop its own talent if it isn't going to have youth or reserve squads or developmental players? Leaving it for USL to develop its players is the exact opposite of developing its "own" talent. So I'm confused by what you wrote here. I don't agree. I think there's lots of talent out there, it just needs to be developed properly. And as others have pointed out, players may be far more willing to suffer low pay and limited playing time if they're working with a top team, rather than a dead-end team from a lower division. And there is a difference between having players develop with a 1st-division team compared to playing full-time with a 2nd-division team. It's very important for the most talented young players to be exposed to the most talented senior players - to practice with them, play alongside them (at least occasionally) in 1st-division matches, compete against them for playing spots, learn their tricks and work ethic and winning attitude, and generally absorb the atmosphere of a top-level club with top-level players (players with world cup experience, etc.). For young players with potential, they can develop farther and faster in that kind of enviornment than in a lower league - an environment that sets a high example for them and challenges them. It also gives them an easy transition to a MLS first team (sometimes they have almost no choice but to start week after week, if other players are injured, suspended, on international duty, and if the kid is talented enough - but it's not always predictable which players will be talented enough to succeed at that level). And conversely, having many talented players competing for spots keeps the senior players on their toes... But the trick is that they also need substantial playing time in a competitive situation. Hence the need for some kind of reserve leage, and the need to expand rosters. I'd say 30 is about the bare minimum to enable it, unless they're going to use a fair number of trial players to fill the reserve rosters.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? But both started in MLS. So neither was "A-League developed". If MLS had 8 developmental spots, Ching would never have been cut and would have shown his stuff in reserve matches. Dayak had horrible injuries. I think he'd have made it back, but A-League was useful for him. I want A-League to continue on, just want reserve spots to be a choice for 18-23 y/o's.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? I disagree. "starting in MLS" doesn't preclude the A-league from developing players. While I wouldn't say that Dayak was developed by the Seals, I can see how anyone would think that the Los Angeles Galaxy developed Brian Ching. His development as a professional player came with the Seattle Sounders. John Wilson was drafted by Kansas City - twice, and has made appearances with the Revs, but his development has been with the Charleston Battery - despite the fact that he has a 2000 MLS Championship ring. Only by using a semantic sleight of hand would one consider him to be "MLS developed."
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? I think there was more development for Ching in the A-League as he played a full season and got a lot more playing time. If you're looking at where they really developed you might want to look at college. What good will a bunch of guys be sitting on the bench? I'd rather have young guys in the A-League playing every week until they can come into MLS and start.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? not claiming MLS Developed. But challenging anyone to provide be a host of players USL-developed. I don't think 1 year is enough.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? That's the whole point. What's better - MLS reserve squad vs. A-League. Not MLS bench vs. A-League. I'm not sure but want to give the MLS reserve concept a try. I'm inclined to support it. I've been waiting here for "why the A-League" will be better than reserve/youth teams than practice with the first squad and play on Mondays.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? 1. "An MLS francise is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it." Yes. And right now that's $10 million. Why? Because that's what the league tells you its worth. Presumably someone buying a team thinks (<--critical assumption) that the present value of the team is worth at least that much. There's an absolute truth out there that he nor you nor I knows. And that truth might be that the team is worth -5 million, in which case the change in value doesn't cover the operating loss. Andy simply said that a $2 million dollar increase in a franchise would offset an operating loss. I'm simply saying we can't predict that the franchise appreciated in value. I think we're all thankful that the group of people running MLS does think the franchises are at the very least maintaining their value. 2. Your example isn't correct. DC would book Robinho as an asset worth 10 million dollars and the debt used to buy him would hit the books on the opposite side. So the net value on the transaction = 0, not -10 million as you've stated. So this doesn't qualify as an example of negative present value. For those interested, see how Manutd accounts for the value of its players as "intangible assets": http://ir.manutd.com/manutd/findata/reports/annrep04/finstate.pdf
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? 1)There's 6 spots on the development roster, 18 Senior Roster. 2)You get rid of the dev rosters, you hinder the P-40 program and as a result make teams less talented. The dev roster was partly created in 2002 to make it easier for coaches to pick up these highly talented P-40s who may not have been ready for playing time, but yet counted against a team's roster. Without the dev roster in 2001 players like EJ and Buddle were selected in the 2nd and 3rd rounds because they were P-40 over players who teams thought were more developed and could contribute right away. Did that make the teams who didn't want to take the chance on a P-40 more talented? Were the Metros really more talented when they wouldn't take a chance on a P-40 and picked up Rodrigo Faria and Kerwin Jemmott in 2001? As for the actual Deveopment Player in the dev roster. It's been a huge success over the years. Is every player in the system going to turn out? Of course not and there's going to be a few you wonder how they even managed to get a 850 a month contract in the first place too. However, it's definatly created more starters in MLS since it's inception in 2002 then the A-League has over the same period. I also can't see how anyone who supports the Metros can say the Dev Player isn't worth anything, seeing as how Parke, Leitch, and Gilberto Flores all started for the Metros and all came out of the dev roster system. You also want teams to get more creative and go after the young talent in CONCACAF. Well they are doing that. Just this year MLS started the "1 year loan with option to buy" for teams to go out and do that. Hell the team you support is doing that more then anyone right now. It almoast seems like half the Metros are TIs. There were more CONCACAF TIs in MLS this year then ever before and next year you'll probably see more as well. MLS does have a league wide limit on those players and I think that should go, but other then that the classifictions are working. Now with expanded rosters, I definatly think it would be better to add 2 Senior Roster spots and 2 Dev Roster spots. I think doing that would allow for more TIs and for graduated dev players to make it on the full roster. Also a reserve team that plays regular games is going to make it easier to find the dev players that have the talent to play and start in MLS or to flush out the one's who don't have it.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? So if you don't know who they are maybe you need to stop saying you know what will happen to them.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? You do understand that the majorityof A-League players make more than dev pay right?
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? All I see here is a guy going out of his way not to acknowledge that A-League is a good place to play for players who want into MLS.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? I remember reading, back in 1995, that part of the deal for getting the World Cup was that USSF promised FIFA it would start a league the next year. The article pointed out that USSF was already behind schedule in creating the league. Then, in 1996, I read another article that mentioned MLS would finally start some time behind schedule.
Re: 350 Million Dlrs on 9 years???? 1. MLS is not pursuing youth teams. If the were I would keep my big yap shut. They are pursuing Reserve teams full of players in their 20's. This is not "development" no matter what tag they put on it. Development starts at a young age. Grabbing onto 20-somethings and trying to make them pros is not development its acquiring warm bodies under the guise of development. Can we both agree that development not supposed to start at 20+ yuears of age? If we can agree on that we agree that what MLS does is not talent development. 1. Many players in the A-League get paid far more than dev palyers in MLS. And many A-League players have used the USL as a route to MLS. Explain to me the dead end part again? 2. Is that what we really want? Players who are willing to work for peanuts just for the cache of saying they are on a top team? Or do we want the best players we can afford? Its seems people are all hung up on the rpice and don't care about the talent. I am sorry but that is hogwash. In europe and around the world young players are loaned out to lower division teams all the time to get playing time. We are not talking about young players here we are talking about 20 some year olds who are not going to develop much further than they already have. I could understand if we were taking unknown players as devs and turning them into brian chings but we are not. And you seem to believe that a reserve league will be more competitive than the A-League? I can assure that will not be the case. I think a lot of people need to stop looking down their noses at the A-League in here.