3 points for win, 1 for draw, who thought of this?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by n00bie deluxe, Oct 20, 2002.

  1. n00bie deluxe

    n00bie deluxe New Member

    Aug 31, 2002
    It's a system we all take for granted. Who thought of it? (My best guess would be the English FA.) Are there any alternatives out there? (Not that I have a problem with this system since its simple to master.)
     
  2. What country are you from, out of curiousity? In America, our 2nd through 4th divisions (A-League, D3 Pro League, and Premier Development League) all use a 4-1-0 system, and also award any team that scores 3 goals, regardless of result, with a bonus point. Ergo, the A-League's regular season champion, Seattle Sounders, finished, I think, with 106 points.
     
  3. CrewDust

    CrewDust Member

    May 6, 1999
    Columbus, Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The system used to be 2 pts for a win and one for a draw. Sometimes you will hear an announcer state that the teams have split the points when a game ends as a draw. I believe FIFA changed the system after the 90 WC. The idea was to make winning a game more important and to discourage teams from simply playing for a draw.
     
  4. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    FIFA did change it to 2-1-0 after Italia '90, but English FA had already adopted the 3-1-0 system by the mid-80s'.
     
  5. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Actually, I'm pretty sure noobie is right. England has been doing it longer than anyone else, since 1982. Italy and the WC started in '94, and Spain and Germany in '95.
     
  6. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    Are you serious…??? What next….6 points for a goal…!!! A 3 point assist for the loudest fans.
    Seems to me if you’re going to play an INTERNATIONAL game, you might want to get used to the international point system.
     
  7. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I'm afraid he's not kidding. 4 for a win, one for a draw, and 1 "bogus" point (as many A-League fans call the bonus point) if you score 3 or more. So it's possible to draw and come away with 2 points, or even lose (4-3, for instance) and come away with one).

    It's silly, but as far as I'm concerned, it's no reason for me not to support the local team (as I figure it's not the players' fault).

    What do you guys think of the suggestion I've seen floated by Jeff Bradley that 3-1-0 be modified in that both teams get the "0" in the case of a scoreless draw?
     
  8. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Northern Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'd say it's not been thought through very well. It doesn't take a genius to realise what's wrong with his suggestion.
     
  9. cosmosRIP

    cosmosRIP Member

    Jul 22, 2000
    Brooklyn NY
    I think I read somewhere that the Greek league was the 1st to use 3 pts for a win.
     
  10. neilgrossman

    neilgrossman New Member

    May 12, 2000
    Hoboken, NJ
    I don't have a problem with the suggestion of zero points for a scoreless draw. The reason FIFA switched from 2-1-0 was to give teams an incentive to attack. 0 for a scoreless draw does this.

    That is one of the reason I liked the shootout. A team that tied had a 50% chance of walking away with nothing. I think we saw more attacking soccer because of it. Although most fans were against the shootout for other reasons, I'm sure many of them enjoyed the exciting regulation finishes it caused.
     
  11. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    I wish everyone would go back to the 2-1-0 system. It is a better measure of performance.
     
  12. Bizzo

    Bizzo New Member

    Sep 24, 2002
    toronto
    The NASL awarded bonus points for goals scored. I can't remember the exact system, but you could earn up to six points (maybe more) for a win.
     
  13. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    I think there was some place (Africa I think) one time had a system where :
    if the home team won, they got 2 points, the away team got 1
    it it was a tie, the home team got 1 point and the away team 2
    if the away team won, the home team got 0 and the away team 3
     
  14. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    On the downside it also means a team who think they probably wouldn't win under normal conditions are likely to play for the shootout and get the win that way. That is apparently what happened in Yugoslavia(?) when their league experimented with ending all drawn games with a penalty shootout. You just got a lot of negative teams who were very good at killing the game and playing for penalties.
     
  15. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Northern Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Nope, all 0 points for a 0-0 does is force teams to fix results.

    0-0 at 87 minutes? Well then you score one and I'll score one then we'll sit back and take our point. If it's in both teams best interests to score a goal apiece at the end of the game in order to get a point then they'll contrive to do it. Talk about a superficial way of increasing scoring...

    I did say "It doesn't take a genius to realise what's wrong with his suggestion."

    Apparently I was wrong.
     
  16. vabeacher

    vabeacher Member

    Jul 27, 2001
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Bonus points for goals are great for small (3 or 4 teams) round-robin tournaments, where there is a good possibility of ties without any added points, but I agree it is silly to use that kind of system over a 30 game season.
     
  17. OBartleby

    OBartleby New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    Kansas City, MO
    Fix results? If, at 87 minutes, one side scores a goal, why wouldn't they want to take all three points instead of, as you suggest, allowing the other team to get a goal so they can each have a point?

    So, tell us, Prenn (not that I'm in favor of it), what exactly is wrong with 0 points for a scoreless draw? It seems it would indeed foster an atmosphere where a club will want to play for SOMEthing....
     
  18. 800PORT911

    800PORT911 New Member

    Apr 11, 2001
    Chicago
    The old NASL scoring system was:

    6 pts. for a win
    3 pts. for a tie
    0 pts. for a loss

    and you would get 1 pt. for each goal scored up to a max of 3 points.

    So the most points you could get was 9 with a win but you could still walk away with 3 points for a loss if you scored.

    Hate to say it - I kinda liked it.

    Kevin
    metroadultsoccer.com
     
  19. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Northern Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It'd be shortsighted to take the goal and the 3 points because next time you want the 1 point from the draw you ain't going to get it. Meanwhile all the other teams are contriving to get their one point, leaving the dishonest team behind.

    Given this I've shown exactly what is wrong with the suggestion.

    Alternatively what's to say that the teams don't come out at the start of the game, contrive to score a goal each then play 90 mins as 1-1?

    Either way the teams can very easily make sure they get a point each.

    I cannot believe it's taking this much explaining.
     
  20. OBartleby

    OBartleby New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    Kansas City, MO
    Richard, Neil is not referring to a penalty shootout, but "The Shootout" a la MLS. This was a horribly contrived means for avoiding ties that thankfully got axed several seasons back. Basically, The Shootout consisted of the 'keeper on his line, the attacker at 30 yards, IIRC, from goal. When the whistle blew he could take as many touches towards goal as he wanted but had to take a shot with 5 (or was it 6?) seconds. Also, the 'keeper was allowed to come off his line when the whistle blew to cut down the angle. The ball could roll in and count as a Shootout goal after the 5 (or 6) second window, as long as the shot was taken before the "shot clock" read zero. A win in Shootout earned you one point, thus encouraging teams to win in regulation, or so the argument went.

    RIP Shootout....
     
  21. champmanager

    champmanager Member

    Dec 13, 2001
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Kazakhstan
    Some of these ideas are intriguing, and I must admit I haven't given much thought to them. But a better solution than giving "bonus points" for goals would be to do it at the end of the season (or competition or tournaments) rather than at the end of the game. In the group stages of Champions league and world cup, for instance, you could count away goals as double when it came down to tiebreakers. On the other hand, this might lead the home team to play more conservatively.
     
  22. OBartleby

    OBartleby New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    Kansas City, MO
    Is this more of that ineluctably sarcastic British humour? Or are your smoking your fair share of Lebanese blonde hashish?
     
  23. emcg

    emcg New Member

    Jun 1, 2000
    New London, CT
    I'm not sure I see why there would be any more incentive to fix a 1-1 draw then there is to fix any other draw in the current system. If two teams have a common interest in splitting points and are ethically bankrupt enough to do it, I think they should at least have to score some goals to do it.

    - Eric
     
  24. OBartleby

    OBartleby New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    Kansas City, MO
    I disagree with this. Getting a draw at Old Trafford, Highbury or Anfield is considered a moral victory, especially if your club is struggling at the bottom of the table. In these cases, the home club is EXPECTED to win, so the visiting team getting a point from a draw there is a good thing from their point of view, and it's silly to think the home club will want to settle for a draw in these cases. I suspect that conspiring to fix a draw for the benefit of the both clubs is a rare thing.

    Is it just me, or is anyone else having trouble making sense out of what Prenn is saying?
     
  25. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Go easy, Prenn. I'm betting that some of them haven't watched the sport for a number of decades, and thus don't have a memory of matches -- international and domestic -- that at least gave the appearance of being fixed. (Ironic given that a sizeable number of MLS fans in the US seem to think that the whole league is fixed).
     

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