2023 MLS Cup Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by SouthRef, Dec 5, 2023.

  1. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    3200 meter club t-shirt winner?
     
    AremRed repped this.
  2. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    A couple things.

    One, if Bazakos had the best year on paper and teams / players / etc. trust him, why was he not nominated for referee of the year?

    Two, sort of on the same topic, I think this is the first time in at least the PRO era of the year where the MLS Cup referee was not nominated for referee of the year. He has the unusual honor of refereeing MLS Cup twice despite never (yet) winning that award. But I think it speaks to your hypothesis that Unkel was the Plan A (and possibly Rivas as Plan B) until he faltered or whatever. I wish we got to peak into an alternative reality to see whether or not the appointment would have been different if Rivas’s first game went differently than it did (on and/or off the field).

    Freemon, the other nominee, was probably always slated as fourth official, very similar appointment to Saghafi 2018, Vasquez 2019, etc., but he’s still too new to the league to get the whistle on the big game.
     
  3. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    PRO doesn't want a guy who looks like him being their top referee, either for ROTY or getting MLS Cup.
     
  4. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Navarro was in a hard spot because he was assigned CONCACAF games between MLS teams and Mexican teams, and the players felt like he was showing waaaaay too much deference to the Mexican teams. Back then there was animosity between MLS teams and US Soccer as the teams felt like the officials they were getting on home games were killing them, while being star struck at famous Mexican players. They said things like "we get screwed in Mexico with their refs, which we expect, but then it happens in the US with our refs!" Meanwhile Navarro was scheduled as a Canadian on games that needed neutral refs (a distinction lost on MLS teams, I'm sure), and they felt like he was every bit as deferential to the Mexicans as could be. In other words, he didn't get the memo. In fairness to him, there was ambiquity in the pre-Toronto (and pre-PRO) era of how those referees were supposed to view MLS teams. On friendlies, did they work for MLS or for CONCACAF? Were they following MLS procedures or CONCACAF? MLS refs wore MLS patches, Navarro did not. There were a dozen things like that, from patches to uniforms, to carding MLS teams for FTRD, when players felt there was no way similar cards would be given to the Mexicans. Eventually complaints were so loud about him, that the rumor was US Soccer asked for him not to be assigned US international games, feeling like he was too deferential to Mexican teams. I don't know if that was true, but it was certainly the rumor. So at that point, his career was toast.
     
  5. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This Villarreal's second whistle (2021) and third overall MLS Cup assignment (4th official in 2014).
    Blanchard was previously AVAR in 2019 but is making his MLS Cup debut on the line.
    This is Stott's 7th MLS Cup, first as VAR having previously held the whistle (2001, 2005, 2009) and the sub board (2000,2006,2017) three times each.
    The rest of the crew are making their MLS Cup debuts. Congratulations to everyone!
     
  6. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Foul by LAFC #12 4’ was arguably SPA, Columbus certainly wanted it. Villarreal warns the player.
     
  7. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chest then arm?
     
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  8. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Strong penalty signal
     
  9. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kevin Stott not interested apparently
     
  10. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    Yes it hits the chest first, but it’s just a deflection. MLS VAR is never overturning that. Would be interesting to see if it would intervene if not given on the field, I think that’s the more interesting question.
     
  11. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just a deflection? What does that matter?
     
  12. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what does that mean “just a deflection”?
     
  13. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Certainly looking less consequential after the second goal, but it sucks to have the first goal in a final be that PK
     
  14. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    It really doesn't help that IFAB included some specifics in the Laws a few years ago and then removed them.

    In a youth game, I probably don't call that. Am I wrong? Misreading what was in the Laws a few years ago? Or did IFAB want that to be let go a few years ago but then changed their minds?
     
  15. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    As opposed to a deliberate play by (for example) the foot, which would be a stronger argument for no handball.
     
  16. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    The logic from the 2019 LOTG is still considered relevant, it’s just not explicitly written in the laws anymore. Instead, the IFAB rewrote the handball law so that it’s worded more generally (“unnaturally bigger”) but the specifics situations that were described in the 2018 and 2019 versions (such as “support arm,” deliberate play with another part of the body first, etc.) are still, to my knowledge, present in official instruction.
     
  17. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought retroactive SPA was no longer in the Laws? Oh well, Villarreal does what he wants I guess...
     
  18. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    How is that 50' shove by LAFC not a foul at all?
     
  19. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I think that's USB. Pretty hard slide.

    Cucho probably hurt his own case for red by rolling around so much. Hard for a ref to "reward" embellishment like that.
     
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  20. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    It was a reckless foul...
     
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  21. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was told last week that retroactive yellows were no longer part of the game lol
     
  22. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But it wasn't a foul because advantage so I was told last week.
     
  23. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I don't think that's how that conversation went.
     
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  24. MuchoTakeItEasy

    MuchoTakeItEasy Member+

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Against Houston Bouanga was clearly fouled for SPA but stayed on his feet only getting slowed down so because the play continued and led to a shot it was not worthy of a retroactive yellow to Artur. According to this forum. Apparently if you slow but don't stop the play it can't be punished.
     
  25. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    Holy crowding batman at 58:20
     

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