2022 MLS Week 16 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by A66C, Jun 23, 2022.

  1. A66C

    A66C Member

    N/A
    United States
    Jan 3, 2022
    06/24/22

    FC Cincinnati vs Orlando City SC
    TQL Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: Adam Garner
    AR2: Lyes Arfa
    4TH: Armando Villarreal
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    06/25/22

    Seattle Sounders vs Sporting Kansas City
    Lumen Field (3PM ET) on ABC
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Jeff Hosking
    AR2: Corey Rockwell
    4TH: Chris Ruska
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    D.C. United vs Nashville
    Audi Field (5PM ET) on ESPN
    REF: Lukasz Szpala
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Justin Howard
    4TH: Luis Arroyo
    VAR: Carol Anne Chenard
    AVAR: Rene Parra

    CF Montréal vs Charlotte FC
    Stade Saputo (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Nima Saghafi
    AR1: Kathryn Nesbitt
    AR2: Jeffrey Swartzel
    4TH: Marcos DeOliveira
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Toronto FC vs Atlanta United
    BMO Field (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Jon Freeman
    AR1: Chantal Boudreau
    AR2: Adam Wienckowski
    4TH: Fabrizio Stasolla
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Diego Blas

    Houston Dynamo vs Chicago Fire
    PNC Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Ismir Pekmic
    AR1: Frank Anderson
    AR2: Tiffini Turpini
    4TH: Brad Jensen
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Robert Schaap

    Inter Miami vs Minnesota United
    DRV PNK Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Victor Rivas
    AR1: Jeffrey Greeson
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Alyssa Nichols
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Jeremy Hanson

    Austin FC vs FC Dallas
    Q2 Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: Allen Chapman
    AR1: Andrew Bigelow
    AR2: Ian McKay
    4TH: Jeremy Scheer
    VAR: Malik Badawi
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    Real Salt Lake vs Columbus Crew
    Rio Tinto Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Mark Allatin *MLS DEBUT
    AR1: Corey Parker
    AR2: Kyle Atkins
    4TH: Silviu Petrescu
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Eric Weisbrod

    San Jose Earthquakes vs LA Galaxy
    Stanford Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Ramy Touchan
    AR1: Logan Brown
    AR2: Brian Poeschel
    4TH: Elton Garcia
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivera
    AVAR: Rene Parra

    Portland Timbers vs Colorado Rapids
    Providence Park (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Rosendo Mendoza
    AR1: Jeremy Kieso
    AR2: Eduardo Jeff
    4TH: Brandon Stevis
    VAR: Younes Karrakchi
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    06/26/22

    Los Angeles FC vs New York Red Bulls
    Banc of California Stadium (3PM ET) on ABC
    REF: Joe Dickerson
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Chris Elliott
    4TH: Matthew Corrigan
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Philadelphia Union vs New York City FC
    Subaru Park (6PM ET) on FS1
    REF: Armando Villarreal
    AR1: Matthew Nelson
    AR2: Jose Da Silva
    4TH: Guido Gonzales Jr
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    Vancouver Whitecaps vs New England Revolution
    BC Place (8PM ET)
    REF: Filip Dujic *MLS DEBUT
    AR1: Micheal Barwegen
    AR2: Gianni Facchini
    4TH: Silviu Petrescu
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Jeremy Hanson
     
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  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SJ/LA has been postponed until Sept 24 due to complications from wildfires in the area.
     
  3. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Curious to me that this wasn't called offside (not on the tap in but in the APP)

    Sure looked to me that CIN #9 was right in the ORL GK sightline for that shot; He still made the save but coughed up a rebound.

    I can see why it wasn't called but just seemed curious.

     
  4. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    Probably for this reason. Offside is generally considered an objective decision but it’s difficult to remove subjectivity from involvement. The offside positioned player is 12ish yards away from goal which is on the longer side of involvement. It also does not appear the goalie dives late, or hesitates. For these reasons, I’d lean towards not offside as an answer but either way this is a check complete
     
  6. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that’s a good point - he is pretty far away and doesn’t seem to affect the GK’s response (he made a great save on a deflected ball)
     
  7. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haven’t watched a huge amount of DCU-NSH, but pretty impressed with Szpala. Solid misconduct and foul recognition. Even as DC fights to get back into it, the game is in good control through 65 minutes.
     
  8. SccrDon

    SccrDon Member+

    Dec 4, 2001
    Colorado Springs
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thought he did fine. And he had a funny moment near the end when NSH delayed taking a CK and he had to wait for somebody to actually go toward the ball to have a player to caution for delay :)
     
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  9. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Montréal's second goal tonight is an interesting offside case that went to review and ended up standing as a goal.

    I think it's offside by interfering with an opponent, but I don't think I ever saw an angle from behind either goal, and I would wager that was the sticking point vis à vis proving impact on the goalkeeper, at least in the eyes of the referee.
     
  10. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Of the newer guys he's been the most impressive to me.
     
  11. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    ABC announcers say no VAR for this game (LAFC-NYRB) due to communication problems between Atlanta and the stadium. It seems like it was inevitable that this would happen eventually
     
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  12. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Updating this, "full" functionality was restored at some point. Major hiccup for sure.
     
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  13. StarTime

    StarTime Member

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    A similar thing happened to Elfath’s game in Kansas City a few months ago. There, functionality was also restored after a few minutes.
     
  14. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    trainer sent off in Philly. Is that a first?
     
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  15. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't recall one...

    He pushed an NYCFC player away from the Philly player on the ground at least twice and then said a few things on the way off and(when the red card was shown).

    Did he let the trainer finish attending to the injured player then show the red card or was it for the additional confrontation on the way off the field?
     
  16. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    this game really melted down. I suspect at least 7 or 8 mins maybe 10 of stoppage time

    [only 6, I am a bit surprised]
     
  17. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I guess I was asking would he let the trainer stay on if he was going to send him off? Not like he is irreplaceable - I don't think he was a neurosurgeon but I suppose I could be wrong.
     
  18. elonpuckhog

    elonpuckhog Member

    Dec 29, 2009
    might get to 10 minutes after all
     
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  19. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    #19 djmtxref, Jun 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
    The final thing that set him (the trainer) off was that Castellanos pushed him and said something while he was still kneeling next to the player who was down.
     
  20. SouthRef

    SouthRef Member

    Arsenal
    Jun 10, 2006
    USA
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this is a mess
     
  21. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    if they get another marginal PK the stadium might get burned down
     
  22. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    If it was any other team, you would guess the trainer objected to something Acevedo may have said and somewhat defended his actions.

    If you watch this guy in other Union games when there's an injury, he and the assistant trainer trot out like a bouncers in a bar and clearly love the attention (I think the fist bumps with the fans on the way to the locker room gives that away).


    https://www.mlssoccer.com/video/red...union-head-trainer-paul-rushing-gets-sent-off
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All that may be true, but Acevedo getting out of all that without a card is pretty amazing. I think the Union players, at the end of that clip, were saying he should have seen red for the push to the throat/face. I think many would say they have a point. Not on Villarreal given all that was going on. But I’m wondering if the VAR team missed that, felt it didn’t quite reach the clearly wrong threshold, or finessed some other standard given the totality of events.
     
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  24. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    The players are always going to be given more slack than a trainer. If the referee had to give red cards for that little scuffle the coaches would be on the phone with PRO immediately regardless of what a trainer did or didn't do.

    I find it fascinating people in other places going "Well the players did this, so they deserve red cards too!" Just seems like they've never managed anything above a 7/11.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This issue isn't involvement "in a little scuffle" or any broad comparison to what the trainer did (or even the idea that there can or cannot be different standards).

    The issue is very specifically what Acevedo did at 0:22-0:24 in the video linked to above. He puts his hand on an opponent's neck/chin and pushes it back with some force.

    I don't think we will get PRO's opinion on this one, because of the totality of events and highlighting this aspect just isn't good for business (whether they think it was the right or the wrong call). But I wish we would. Because knowing exactly what is and what isn't "clear violent conduct" in the video age is very, very helpful to aspiring referees. This is the type of thing we want punished with consistency and we don't want referees in, say, USL, over-punishing or under-punishing this.

    It's a forceful hand to an area above the shoulders, but it's not necessarily a throat grab and it isn't to the face. But it does make the opponent's head jerk back. So is there enough grey area here that makes it not a clear red? Or was this a miss by the VAR? That's an answer that I think is very useful for officials who work and who want to work at the professional level.
     
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