So, some fans did some video research, and it seems like the last PK taker for the Dutch if it had gotten that far would have been Groenen (ahead of van de Donk). I was expecting her in the first 5, but I wasn't expecting her to be 5th. If this is true, neither Martens (not exactly surprising) or van de Donk were in the first 5, which I certainly wouldn't have predicted heading into the match.
For some perspective about Parsons, here are some general things to think about based on how he has the Portland Thorns playing (whose roster includes Sinclar, Dunn, Horan, Sauerbrunn, and Franch plus Costa Rican international Rodriguez, plus former World Cup top 11 outside back Klingenberg). These are not important details, but rather aspects of the overall team culture. The play a high press defense: Every player is expected to defend aggressively. This means that they must rely on the bench for second half reinforcements. He and the general manager are big on succession planning, so that as key players age there will be younger players coming up to replace them. Whether national team players are available or gone on international duty, the team playing identity and style are the same. Thus all the players are ingrained with, This is who we are and how we play. There is a very big emphasis on always working to get better, no matter which player you are. They play a 4-3-3, with the central attacker sitting back a little, with the central mid as a holding mid but able to interchange with one of the other central mids, and with the outside backs frequently overlapping particularly on the left side of the field.
The one thing I see is the inexperience in big moments. Nouwen and Miedema are 22 and 25, respectively, younger than any player the USA contemplated being in the first 5 kickers. Even Lavelle, who Americans would consider wet behind the ears, is older then either at age 26. Five years earlier Press and Morgan missed PK’s against Sweden and they were older. They got it right the second time around in their 30’s.
How Canada vs the US played out is why I understood Martens taking responsibility for the Dutch after the QF elimination. Those fans very eager to say she shouldn't have made those comments are now mocking the US. I mean I'm a US fan, but I don't get that attitude as a Dutch fan. You've just seen Fleming do what Martens couldn't in a match where Canada unlike the Dutch couldn't create anything significant outside of the PK, and your only thought is to laugh at the US. This semifinal hurts because the US lost and because Canada won via the same route the Dutch could/should have won while having so little of the play when the Dutch had quite a bit of it.
I believe it is more a combination of few things like Naeher being a beast of a keeper that match, Martens being a crap player every time they play the US and on top of that, I think they are still collectively a little on edge going up against the Americans.
I just want to say again how I respect Netherlands for approaching this game bravely and coming out to play. Coach Wiegman never even thought of tanking the last group stage game against China to try to avoid the US, instead playing almost all her usual starters with the exception of Miedema, a prudent and commonsense decision. Netherlands looks good. They seem set to remain a power in the women's game and to give their fans many wonderful moments. I'm happy for them and their fans. They are a likeable team. @cpthomas gave a good preview of what to expect from new coach Mark Parsons, a better one than I could give as he is a Portland resident and fan of the Thorns. Parsons is a good coach. His teams play well even with reserves when normal starters are away on international duty and his players seem to like him and appreciate him There is one aspect I don't like about him but I won't dwell on it much right now. He probably harangues the referees more than most in the league and at Portland his attitude transfers over to his players, perhaps with the key exception of Christine Sinclair who always remains herself, a unique and brilliant and modest player.
Tks for this. Parson's basic job with the Dutch, as I see it, is to figure out how he get another, say, 5 percent improvement out of a team that is already very good, so that it is ready to defend its Euro title, which won't be easy, and challenge again for the World Cup title. It's not a team to be messed with very much. The defense got a lot of criticism in the Olympics, and maybe right so, but I think it has the potential to be quite solid as Nouwen and Wilms get more experience--and they'll get it in a hurry with their new clubs. Those two plus Janssen and Van der Gragt should be very solid--but they've got to stay healthy. The Netherlands biggest weakness is lack of quality depth. If I'm Parsons, I would want to cultivate a little more toughness in Martens, who is a star talent but I think gets taken out of her game by physical play. I think Ertz walloped her a couple of times early in the QF and she, early on, like the rest of the team, played tentative. He will also want to improve Van de Sanden's decision-making and overall confidence. The biggest unknown, the biggest risk, is how the team will response to Parsons personally and his coaching style. It has been coached by Dutch woman--former NT player--for 5 or so years, whatever it was, and now it's got an Englishman whom I assume doesn't speak Dutch. It's hard to see how the team could have the same kind of bond with Parsons that it did with Wiegman, but we'll see. Let's hope it's a good relationship!
Agreed on the defense. Maybe give Kop some serious, regular playing time as well. Martens definitely had a better tournament than van de Sanden in my opinion, but like van de Sanden, she struggled to make the biggest impact vs both Brazil and the US. Fair point about the potential adjustment period going from Wiegman to Parsons. I’m curious; is there any player in the current Dutch squad that doesn’t speak English well/very well?
Well, there's no delay in the next coming big thing, as EURO in England kicks off in july 2022. So plenty to do in preparations for that.
Good point: I'm not sure how I forgot that most Dutch speak English well! One potential handicap out of the way! RE Van de Sanden: She does good things but futzes a lot of opportunities with questionable decisions or poor execution. But then so do a lot of players--it's what we see in soccer constantly....the promising opportunity that...that....that....oh, my, comes to nothing!
Maybe the defense got into trouble so much because the midfield stunk ? The biggest thing Wiegman introduced is the winner's mentality, can't wait to see what Parson will bring to improve the actual play.
No, if the midfield stunk, I don't even know how you describe the defense. The defense didn't need any help from the midfield to get into trouble on Zambia's first and third, Brazil's third, and US' second, and the defense was primarily at fault for Brazil's first and China's first as well. (I'm assuming Brazil's second came from a Roord giveaway, but if it didn't, then throw that in as well.) Honestly, I think only Miedema had a better tournament than the three midfield starters, but maybe that's just me.
The defense stunk more than the midfield. Speaking of Wiegman, I will be very curious how successful she will be with England given that they don't have a Miedema (Martens is pretty good too) because let's admit it, Miedema is out of this world good. She can elevate any team just by herself.
I don't know; White's age is a concern, but her play at the World Cup and this Olympics easily matched Miedema's play at the Euros and the World Cup in my opinion. (Miedema was hands down the best player at this Olympics.) Hemp at international level might not get to the heights of Euro 2017 Martens or UWCL 2020/2021 Martens, but she is very good. We'll have to wait and see how well Kelly recovers from her ACL injury (heartbreaking), and I guess there's always going to be a question mark regarding Kirby's fitness level for England. However, if Wiegman does end up having Kirby and Kelly in form and healthy at her disposal, then she'll be in a better situation at RW (or CAM if she plays Kirby there) with England than she was with the Dutch. Walsh doesn't put up the goal contribution numbers that Spitse did from dead ball situations at the Euros and the World Cup, but I rate her overall play higher. I think it's critical that Wiegman gets out of one of the English midfielders what she got out of Groenen throughout her whole tenure as Dutch coach. Maybe that involves getting Nobbs (more of a goal threat, not as good defensively but still has a solid work rate) back in the fold, or maybe she'll transition Williamson fully into central midfield, which is a worthwhile idea in my opinion. In terms of defense and goalkeeper, England's better than the Netherlands on paper, but of course, that doesn't always translate to actual matches. It will indeed be interesting to see how Wiegman performs with England.
Uh, oh: I just read that Lynn Wilms is having back problems and will be out of action for an extended period--"a few months," according to one translation. She's going to miss the next round of WC qualifiers, not to mention have a delayed start to her Wolfsburg career. This is worrisome as a back issue sidelined her at least once before and it sounds like it's a chronic issue. Indeed, the term "persistent" was used in the Wolfsburg tweet in describing her back problem. We'll have to see if it's a problem that rest can improve or whether more serious medical intervention might be needed--let's hope not. I can certainly see how playing four/five matches in a short period of time, as she did in the Olympics, can cause a back issue to flare up. Though only 20, Wilms has become a vital young player for the Dutch. To say that the team is thin at her position, right back, would be an understatement. Maybe we'll see Folksmerta back in that spot, given that she started two games in that position in the runup to the Olympics, the coaches apparently wanting to see how she'd fare in the position. If not her, maybe Parsons moves Janssen to right back and then reinserts Van Dongen or Van Es at left back. Either move will probably be fine for WC qualifiers but not what the Dutch will want for, say, the Euros. I'll say it again, if I'm Parsons I'm calling Van Lunteren and trying hard to persuade her to rejoin the national team.
Forgot about her. I think she’s got the ability to put up White like numbers at the international level if she gets enough time/experience. I think Wiegman should bring her back into the picture.
Sisca Folkertsma (I spelled her name incorrectly in the above post) would be the best bet. She's 24, got some size and athleticism, and played the position in a couple of matches in the runup to the Olympics. She needs more international game experience--and may now get it. Quality depth is a bit of a problem for the Dutch. I think there are quite a few players with qualities and potential in the age 18-21 age range, but it's still a bit early for most of them.
I'm curious to know why Martens didn't play at all in Barca's first match in Portland--and then came in in the second match, against Houston, in the 62nd minute. Bit of an odd move by the new Barca coach--but maybe he is just resting her after the Olympics, and Martens did play every minute in the Games. Crnogorcevic started in Marten's left-wing spot in both matches--but she can't take on defenders 1v1 like Martens--doesn't even try.
She had only just got back in with the team before the match vs Lyon. So, I'm guessing he's just slowly working her back into full match fitness. Groenen, the other Dutch player to play every minute at the Olympics, is still not back training with Man United yet.
Yes, interesting how some Olympics players need or get a lot of rest and others are back on the field sooner. Van de Donk played 90' in both of Lyon's matches in the U.S. I thought she did OK playing a new system, with new players, whom she'd only trained with for a week or two. She had some nice passes and made some nice runs against Barca--even had a good scoring chance but didn't place her shot on goal expertly enough to score--but she also had a bad giveaway that led directly to Barca's equalizing second goal. She got bumped in the back when retrieving a pass in the Lyon defensive third, lost the ball, and a pass or two later Barca scored. I saw her lose the ball in just that a way a few times for Arsenal last season--maybe her one weakness, being a player who's pretty small. She had less influence in the game against Portland, I thought--a good team with a lot of good players--and looked a bit fatigued at times, which would be understandable. It was a game of up-and-down the field. She made a nice three-quarters of the field run late, going all the way to the Portland box, but her centering pass was intercepted. Hope she does well with Lyon--and the same with Roord at Wolfsburg. Roord wasn't a great fit with Arsenal, which had two many attacking mids and really needed somebody like that team now has in Iwabuchi, who can run the attack and pull strings.
Well, Groenen's the only Dutch player not back with her team yet. Man United has a new manager, and the week long training camp in Scotland seemed to be a good team building experience. If she's going to be at United for this season, I just think it's a bit peculiar that she missed the whole camp. She didn't have to play vs Rangers either if she needed more rest; a number of players didn't get minutes in that match but were at the camp. I didn't watch the Barcelona-Lyon match, but I did catch the Portland-Lyon match. Apart from one decent cross that was cleared and one great cross to Majri in the first half, van de Donk had a bit of a rough time out there in my opinion. A couple good blocks/interceptions, but as you say, she wasn't influential.
Danielle experiencing a completely different style of play against Thorns seem to humbled and frustrated her hence eventually committing a yellow card foul against Horan. She is a decent player but I think most of the time her emotions gets the best of her.