2021 MLS Week 12 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Jul 7, 2021.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    07/07/21

    New England Revolution vs Toronto FC
    Gillette Stadium (7PM ET)
    REF: Rosendo Mendoza
    AR1: Claudiu Badea
    AR2: Ian McKay
    4TH: Joshua Encarnacion
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Tom Supple

    CF Montréal vs New York City FC
    Exploria Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Marcos DeOliveira
    AR1: Andrew Bigelow
    AR2: Jose Da Silva
    4TH: Tori Penso
    VAR: Malik Badawi
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    Chicago Fire vs Orlando City
    Soldier Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Guido Gonzales Jr
    AR1: CJ Morgante
    AR2: Meghan Mullen
    4TH: Elton Garcia
    VAR: Matt Franz
    AVAR: Peter Manikowski

    Austin FC vs Los Angeles FC
    Q2 Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: Ramy Touchan
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Jeff Hosking
    4TH: Ismir Pekmic
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Mike Kampmeinert

    Colorado Rapids vs Minnesota United
    Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (9PM ET)
    REF: Ted Unkel
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Ryan Graves
    4TH: Matthew Corrigan
    VAR: Alejandro Mariscal
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    Seattle Sounders vs Houston Dynamo
    Lumen Field (9PM ET)
    REF: Robert Sibiga
    AR1: Chris Elliott
    AR2: Diego Blas
    4TH: Lukasz Szpala
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Joshua Patlak

    Vancouver Whitecaps vs Real Salt Lake
    Rio Tinto Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Cameron Blanchard
    AR2: Eduardo Jeff
    4TH: Kevin Broadley
    VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero
    AVAR: Gjovalin Bori

    LA Galaxy vs FC Dallas
    Dignity Health Sports Park (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Alan Kelly
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Jeremy Kieso
    4TH: Michael Radchuk
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar


    MLS debuts for Meghan Mullen and Eduardo Jeff.
     
  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Off the ball red card via VAR in Colorado. I didn't see what happened, just Rubio on the ground post-incident. I thought it was just typical Rubio shit-housery but apparently there was more to it than that.
     
  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1413126384466104320 is not a valid tweet id
     
  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MassachusettsRef repped this.
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was an interesting and consequential review in the NYCFC/MTL match last night. Sort of a double OFR as a penalty would have been awarded but an alleged offside negated it. Problem is, I don't think it was offside.

    If so, that's two goals or likely goals taken off the board in a couple weeks--both affecting the outcome of matches. The calls for the dreaded offside lines in MLS VAR might not be too far off if anyone is paying attention.
     
  6. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    What was the point of posting this? Are you just trying to dog on an official? Not only did the AR make a full sprint from nearly midfield to try and see this, it is not at all in their training to raise the flag when not in position.
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  7. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought it was interesting that Fleming, who's generally more even-handed about officiating (IMO) than many commentators, tweeted it. Being at the game I didn't remember an obvious miss like this but maybe it was more obvious on camera.
     
  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Well. If it is only a “one inch punch” should it be a red at all?

    just kidding of course, I thought the title was funny. It’s a cheap shot sucker punch—I’d hope he gets an enhanced suspension for that. (Oh, wait, it’s MLS….)
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  9. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't get me wrong, Rubio was absolutely selling it, but this is a case where if he doesn't react does VAR even notice and take a look?
     
  10. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
  11. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Oh my. I must need re-training cuz that sure looks no foul to me.
     
  12. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    That's not a foul at the professional level. Great tackle.

    VAR should have sent that down.
     
    RefIADad repped this.
  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh my that wasn't sent down? Not a foul at the amateur adult level much less pro level.
     
  14. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As you said, it's not a foul. I'm the first to say "getting the ball doesn't always negate a foul", but this is as textbook of a slide tackle as you can get.

    If it is a foul, is it even DOGSO? The covering defender was in the video pretty quickly.

    I would imagine this will be on the VAR review video this week with some fairly strong language that the red was not supported.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt it. The VAR week in review has almost exclusively dealt with situations where a review was initiated. There was no review here, so there's nothing to discuss from that perspective.

    That said, I'm interested in learning more here. Did Dickerson call DOGSO or SFP? Don't get me wrong, from the view we have it looks like a really good tackle and then the DOGSO elements are debatable even if it's not. So I'm not suggesting either call is right. But, eh, maybe there's another angle that shows something we aren't seeing, because Dickerson didn't even hestitate with the red at all and you'd think it would take a moment to process DOGSO there.

    The bottom line, though, is I want to know what he called so we can figure out what considerations the VAR was even going through when he was checking this.

    And all that said, if this is as poor of a call as it first looks, it adds to a few rough weeks for Dickerson on big calls. I thought he was very good the past few years and still like his management techniques and on-field persona, but he's undeniably had several big calls all seem to go the wrong way.
     
  16. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    strange things seem to happen in his matches for some reason. I agree that he has a likable persona and looks the part. But ...
     
  17. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    I’m hoping for this.

    I see the defender making the tackle making a ‘man or ball, not both’ type of challenge. He makes sure he gets man and gets a little ball in the process. I want to not see a foul, but I think he primarily goes for the attacker.

    Most slide tackles are the opposite… the defender is going for, and primarily gets the ball. The man is collateral damage.

    Once you have a foul, it’s got to be red. The other defender is trailing play. Without the challenge, the attacker gets off a shot.
     
  18. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    The MLS website states "Professional Foul Last Man"

    I'll leave the discussion to you good folks.
     
  19. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    You can safely ignore what they list for fouls on the website, whoever writes those clearly isn't getting them from the actual match report.
     
    JasonMa and voiceoflg repped this.
  20. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    you don’t think a ref wrote down “last man”? Yeah, even if we didn’t know from other contexts, the language makes it awfully clear it’s not official.

    I’d really like to see the R’s angle. He had a much better angle than this clip to see the points of contact. I’m wondering if the tackle went through an ankle to make it SFP. From this angle, anything from no foul to SFP is believable to me. (I *think* there is a foul in the contact we don’t see from this angle, but I’m not sure.)
     
    jarbitro repped this.
  21. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    I’ll second @MassachusettsRef here. That video series addresses VAR reviews and as there is no intervention here there isn’ta lot to show. What you really want is for a pRO to have a different series where they weigh in on accuracy of decisions which I don’t imagine we’ll ever get
     
  22. WrathofDog

    WrathofDog Member

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Mar 12, 2019
    The broadcast camera angle is far better than that closeup.
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/video/red...card-jake-mulraney-atlanta-united-74th-minute

    The second angle shows you that Leal's bad touch put the ball and his run well to the right of the goal and Sosa has made up the ground and is closer to the goal than Leal when the tackle is made. That makes DOGSO is one hell of a stretch.

    Worse, at :28 you can see that Leal's right foot is striding backwards when Mulraney plays the ball - the contact that takes Leal down, is him tripping when the top of his left foot hits Mulraney's calf after the ball has been played by a studs down tackle. SFP?

    The ref made that call trailing play by 30+ yards at a full sprint, but the AR who was directly beside the play made no call. FWIW, Heinze said after the game that the ref had told him that Mulraney had made no contact with the ball.

    I'm partisan, but I don't see how VAR doesn't have this looked at during the game. Seems like PRO needs to take the L on this one and admit a blown call.
     
  23. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    is anybody watching this CINvCLB game? I am a little shocked by the latest tackle by Mensah on Acosta didn't even warrant a caution in Kevin Stott's world. From behind at high speed no chance to win the ball right in front of the benches. It's inexplicable
     
    Beau Dure repped this.
  24. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Is anyone watching Cincinnati-Columbus? If so, can you explain Kevin Stott's non-cards on two wipeout tackles?
     
    GlennAA11 repped this.
  25. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    and now his elbow to the head finally gets a caution
     

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