Allegri is a garbage coach, he lost everything at the Cardiff half time. There was a video of zidane HT speech, there isnt one for Juve because Max was getting neutered by a doctor. My God what a disaster...heaviest worst ever losses ive witnessed as a Juve fan was under Allegri You get this guy Ronaldo, Vlahovic, Chiesa,De Ligt and he still plays like Serie C team. It DOESNT MATTER WHO WE SIGN....lets get our balls back How many times must we get embarrassed to realize this defensive bullshit doesnt work ?? Agnelli should just step down or take another role in the team, ******** the super league because at this point most those teams would just thrash us
Another humiliating loss when it counts. I've been saying it forever now....but I'll say it again....we aren't going anywhere without a real midfield. Locatelli is a really good player but he needs to be the deep lying playmaker. He also needs talent around him too. Instead we continue to trot out garbage like Rabiot, Arthur, and old man Cuadrado. DV7 is a nice player but he's not going to help when the midfield is static and/or lacking in quality. Until the midfield is fixed, we are going to keep getting batoste in Europe.
The lack of creativity in midfield was really glaring today. Juve are just too slow and devoid of ideas going forward. Vlahovic is a lot like Lewandowski in that he is an old-fashioned centre-forward who needs quality service in order to thrive. Given the kind of money that Juve spent for him, the team needs to be built around him.
Is it the players or the coach? Yes we do need better mids but why do coaches from benfica porto villareal get better out of theirs? This has become an excuse for Juve fans for a while. Even with a full squad Allegri would have bottled this. The man is done, we can either recognize this or further take this club into bankruptcy and miss out on CL.
Did any of you realistically think Juve would advance past Villareal? Oddsmakers were giving money away with Villareal being underdogs to qualify at +250 after the first leg. Clearly the oddsmakers forgot that Villareal was playing an Italian football club. This isn't a troll post by the way - this is the reality of Calcio where you have the richest club in the league buying players amounting to literally a handful of convincing performances over consecutive seasons. Juve has had maybe 2 or 3 good games against top clubs in Europe in the last 3-4 years. What's it going to take for Juve's parent company to realize that they're not fostering a winning culture built on good football but rather doing the exact opposite? Juve supporters are like management in that they don't have the balls to demand more.
You guys know what it like to be an Ajax supporter! LOL! We went out against a crap Benfica team because of one free kick. I said some time ago that until Juve fix the MF problems they won't be a decent side. Sure they will likely hold on to fourth place in Serie A as the Inter game may be the only difficult fixture left. Thanks to the CL rules they will go into the group stages once more and likely face the same issues they have for the last 3-4 years. With the money problems they have, it's hard to see how they can buy their way out of this. I don't know much about the youth system at the club and whether they have any promising players coming up. Clearly getting Vlahovic addressed the striker problem and let's hope Chiesa makes a full recovery and gets back to his old form. They still will have big holes on the back line with aging central defenders (other than de Ligt) and FBs that are quite frankly not that good any longer. Allegri is not the kind of manager that can deal with the nuances of how football has evolved. He will continue to field plodding teams regardless of the personnel he has. It's unfortunate that Pirlo was sacked as I think he had a clue about what needed to be done but inherited a bad deck of cards when he came in. I'll not say much about the management as you all know the issues there and why a total revamp is needed.
I liked Pirlo a lot, and considering that it was his first ever job in football management, I think he did a creditable job. Unfortunately, he was made the scapegoat of the team's failure to progress beyond the Round of 16 of the UCL.
Our dirigenti lack foresight and patience. They missed out on Barella and they missed out on Tonali. They weren't willing to invest and allow young talent to flourish. Look how patient Milan was with Tonali and it's paid off in a huge way. The Juve dirigenti have quite frankly SUCKED at evaluating and investing in young midfield talent. They invested in Locatelli which is great but that isn't enough. Arthur? No fee castoff. Rabiot? No fee castoff. Cuadrado? Old and done. McKinnie? Good box-to-box but not skilled enough. The reason "lesser" teams are beating us is because they are winning the midfield. McKinnie can't create. Arthur is too slow and always has that extra touch that kills the build up. Cuadrado is 33. Rabiot's touch is HORRIFIC at these levels. He has cinder blocks for feet. This was all readily apparent at the beginning of the year. It's just that most Juve fans and media convince themselves otherwise...despite the facts in front of them.
You're right. One of Juve's hallmarks have always been a strong midfield. Teams all around Europe have this issue of impatience with local, homegrown talent. Pulling out the chequebook for "proven" talent isn't always the best solution. Arthur likes to play passes backwards and sideways. As far as midfielders are concerned, his style is distinctly un-Brazlian.
The scoreline comes as a surprise, but the result doesn't. The midfield has been trash for years. Locatelli was a step in the right direction, but this must be the absolute focus in the summer. We are going nowhere until one or two more quality guys are brought in and mediocre players like Rabiot, Arthur, etc. are shipped out. While I think Allegri's post-game refusal to accept any accountability for this thrashing is delusional and absurd, you should only be changing one major thing at a time. Too much turnover doesn't work. See Manchester United for that. Fix the midfield. If Allegri still plays this boring, antiquated, negative shit next season, he should go as well.
To be fair that is why they got rid of Max the first time and brought in sarri/Pirlo. But the problem was we still had a roster built for max's tactics and we didn't have the courage to stick with either of those more proactive managers and build the team to fit them. I don't particularly like Sarri and didn't agree with appointing him (Zidane is who they really needed to go after or DDC), but if we were going to bring in a rookie coach like Pirlo, you can't bail on him after one season. What worries me is if Max is really going to stick around a couple more years the rebuild will be around his tactics which will not win in Europe. May not even win Serie A anymore as we see far more proactive tactics by the teams in front of us now. Too many dynamic players show up here and begin to regress, so I hate to say it but we need to replace him perhaps after the World Cup when Mancio and DDC will be available. Midfield must be fixed....for the umpteenth season in a row. Looking more and more like the biggest mistake AA has made was getting rid of Bepe.
In Juve's last four Champions League knockouts stages, Dybala has played 190 minutes out of the 720. vs Ajax: 75 minutes vs Lyon: 103 minutes vs Porto 0 minutes vs Villarreal 12 minutes
Luck favors the Bold. We dont have luck because we are not bold and negative and like everything in life negative energy will kill you. You dont go into a fight being scared of taking a couple of punches. Difference between a good coach & Allegri is good coaches know when to make subs and know what momentum is. If tables were turned and we went up 1-0 Allegri would have tried to keep that score, while Villareal went for the kill (which is what we shoulda done first leg) Mark my words keeping Allegri will further slide this team now. He just proved why he was fired
It's easy to beat up on Allegri right now and call him a shit manager. The facts are that he has won a number of scudetti and gotten to two Champions League Finals. He knows what he is doing. I don't see how we can make a fair assessment of him when we have crashed out of Champions League in frankly embarrassing fashion for the last half-decade, in succession, because we have a non-existent midfield. When Allegri had Pirlo, Pogba and Vidal, we were in the Final. So while I agree that that we can certainly play more aesthetic football, I don't see how Allegri can be Public Enemy #1 where the most glaring issue is a midfield that hasn't been adequately addressed. I don't see how we'd be any better off with a Pirlo or Sarri at this point. It would be worse , if anything. Try to play an uptempo, possession-based game with a midfield that is predictable and can't string three passes together in succession. Fix the midfield. I hate to say it, but move on from Dybala who's never around when you need him, and bring in a couple of reliable defender, while discarding the guys that aren't good enough (Rugani, Alex Sandro, De Sciglio, Arthur, Rabiot, Bernardeschi, Kean, etc). Then worry about the manager.
What is shameful is that we have been trying to address the midfield for 5 years now since Pirlo retired and we traded away Pogba…and we had a fallout with Vidal. This management had a long time to try to fix this midfield and the only positive we got is Locatelli and that’s it! We stuck with Bentancour for way too long. Pjanic was decent, but definitely not all that great. Agnelli needs to go eventually because his ideals has not helped Juventis in Europe. This is super embarrassing. We tried Sarri, we tried Pirlo and then we ran back to Allegri. We aren’t giving coaches a fair amount of time. We did give Allegri a lot of time but I feel that we were not fair to Sarri and Pirlo. I think with Sarri we probably win Scudetto last year. But with that said I don’t know how much he would have made progress in the champions league. Lastly this club needs to get rid of Dybala. He is not reliable. He reminds me of Falcao, all that skill but spent half their career being injured. Juventus needs to go all in Pogba this summer and try to sell both Rabiot and Arthur. We also need to replace both Sandro and Cuadrado. I appreciate Cuadrado a lot but he just can’t get past defenders. He doesn’t have the legs anymore.
I think I mentioned this before but I think with the style of play Juve plays I think Diego Simeone could bring Juve back to its old glory days. But I think he is perfectly happy with Atletico because they stuck with him for a long time, plus they got some young great talent.
The problem with keeping Mad Max is that we are going into a rebuild mode and I don't think it is wise for the longterm to be building a team around his tactics. Look around at the type of systems that are succeeding in Europe and they are not Allegri's. So rebuilding the team around those tactics is foolish.
I agree -- Pirlo should have been given more time. I can see not renewing Dybala's contract. But don't let him go to a direct domestic rival in Inter.
Not much Juve can do if he decides to go there. That being said I highly doubt he will, he'll likely go abroad
First half was fine, we should have put away 1 or 2 chances and game would have been over. My issue was the timing of subs, everyone could see that changes were needed past the 60th minutes. Emery made them, Max didn't. Berna for Rabiot and Luca Pellegrini for MDS could have brought more energy and drive if Dybala wasn't able to play more than 10 minutes. I hope Max doesn't turn into the next Mourinho...living off past success and unable to adapt. I think he deserves another season, but Pirlo will end up with as much or more than Allegri this season...for what it is worth.
I agree with this as a general principle, but I think the rebuttal is the teams that play and uptempo, more attacking game and are successful have vastly better personnel than we have, particularly in the midfield. Simeone is arguably more negative than Allegri and has had sustained success over many years. I was entirely in favor of letting Allegri go when we did the first time because I think it had just gone stale, and I was tired of the shit football. I was all in favor of a more progressive style, but we got a couple of things wrong. One, Sarri wasn't a great choice. Two, they made bad decisions, particularly in thinking that guys on a free ,like Rabiot and Ramsey, were going to be anchors for this midfield. That's why Paratici, rightfully, is gone. Setting aside the debacle in CL we have been getting results under Allegri in recent months. I think the goal has to be to maintain the CL place, which we should be able to do, to make this an attractive destination for good signings this summer. If we're able to bring in quality guys and we still have to watch the same, negative, antiquated shit under Allegri, then I think you have to let him go. But as presently situated, this team is shit and riddled with injuries. I can't see how Allegri is most to blame. I seem to be in the minority on this one, and I can't believe I'm the one defending him given how glad I was that they moved on from him the first time. That said, I don't think he should be the first guy axed here.