2020 Optimism Thread

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by Y tu mama tambien, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. Hinkie-brain??? Huh???
     
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  2. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Sam Hinkie, ex-GM of the 76ers, and foremost figure in the poisoning of sports fans brains to believe that "sabermetrics" actually means that being bad is good and being worse is better, and that people who don't agree are just rubes.

    It's sophisticated now to think of any sports organization as engaging in a long-term rebuilding project, with a moral framework in which initial failure is a necessary and desirable precondition to eventual success. The implication from that being that initial success is in some sense a mistake.

    I'll argue against that until the cows come home in NBA terms, but in the NBA there's no doubt that top draft picks are very valuable and teams have improved long-term by securing top picks in some instances. There is nuance there.

    In MLS on the other hand, the route to a trophy winning team is clearly and unambiguously just going out and assembling one in the present tense, there is no counterargument. But "rebuilding" is just such a privileged framing that people convince themselves otherwise.

    To make this concrete, if the 2020 Fire are bad, the missing ingredient is not time. It might be players, it might be formation, it might be tactics, it's almost certainly some combination of those, and it's almost certainly more money, but it's not time.
     
  3. milicz

    milicz Member+

    Dec 2, 2001
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
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  4. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Apropos of absolutely nothing, it's fascinating to me that Google's AI is sophisticated enough to figure out context of where to put definite vs indefinite articles when translating from Polish to English.
     
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  5. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
  6. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    So, I don’t know if it is optimistic or not, but I bought a flex pack for this year. The first money spent since the 5-game plan that included the All-Star game. I know others are different, but for me, Andy killed the original Fire with his editorial. It never felt the same for me. Back then, I said that someone would eventually buy the club, and it would then be like an expansion team to me.

    So, here we are. I like the front office moves and the player signings so far. Feels like they are working a plan, which I never felt in the last decade. They didn’t sign Chicharito which shows me they are serious about good soccer. I don’t like the logo, but given my position that this is a brand new club, I’m not as upset as most are about that. In fact, we Andy gone, I’ve been wearing my old stuff again, with pleasant memories of the first decade. Looking forward to a new season and a new club. Win me over Fire!
     
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  7. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Excellent, welcome back!
    I look forward to perhaps having a beer with you at a game this Spring.
     
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  8. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Absolutely!
     
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  9. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Man, remember Chicago NASL?
     
  10. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    That was an interesting time on this forum.
     
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  11. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    It remains a good idea. Well, I guess it would be USL now.
     
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  12. splunge63

    splunge63 Member+

    Mar 30, 2014
    west burbs
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If the Fire sign Pizarro, that will make me a stuff-ton more optimistic.
     
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  13. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    This is the Optimism Thread (TM) so I'm going to hold my tongue on all the snake oil that was pitched to potential supporters of that project.
     
  14. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    One of the founders died at age 50. He was a friend of mine. I don’t think dying is snake oil.
     
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  15. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Yep. It didn’t work, but it wasn’t snake oil. It was a very real thing and super innovative. A very sad end to the story.
     
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  16. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nobody bought anything* so no snake oil.
    It created some enthusiasm when the Fire were at their nadir.
    The couple of events I attended were energetic and fun.

    *I did buy a t-shirt. I still have it.
     
  17. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Much of that energy lives on in other lower division projects.
     
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  18. TyrusRose

    TyrusRose Member+

    chicago fire
    North Korea
    Jun 17, 2019
    See I don't like talk of "expansion club". I think it kind of lets the new guys off the hook. We should absolutely be hiring former players around the club in different roles, even if it is something as minor as "club ambassador". It's nice to see old faces around. Klopas as assistant coach is a start, now let's get more guys on board in different roles.
     
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  19. Mac97

    Mac97 Member+

    Jul 15, 2014
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I'm optimistic that no organization would seriously forgo building their future without taking advantage of a foundation that was laid by Peter Nowak, Magee, Pavel, McBride, Marsch, Kubick, Blanco, Schweinsteiger, .........., and Hristo Stoichkov !!!!!, for the love of all that is good and decent in this world.
    I mean, what kinda craziness would that be?
     
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  20. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    My personal position is not incompatible with this. In 1998, the Fire involved Lee Stern and has nights that honored former Sting players. “Fresh start” might be a better phrase, but my point was that I will be eagerly making myself available to be won over by Fire 2.0.
     
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  21. TyrusRose

    TyrusRose Member+

    chicago fire
    North Korea
    Jun 17, 2019
    I'll give you guys something to be really optimistic about on the weekend..
     
  22. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    In other words, @meninred97 will tell us tomorrow?
     
  23. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Seems like all the old Fire players are all working in everyone else's successful front office (then there's Chris Armas at Red Bull).
     
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  24. TyrusRose

    TyrusRose Member+

    chicago fire
    North Korea
    Jun 17, 2019
    Ha.. don't think so this time
     
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  25. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    The rumor mill has been WAY too quiet this week.
     

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