2020-2021 England Referee Appointments (EPL+) [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Aug 28, 2020.

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  1. sjquakes08

    sjquakes08 Member+

    Jun 16, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know if this will be satisfying from a "why" perspective, but it used to be tradition that the AR 1 (or "senior linesman" as it would be known) would have a red flag (or a mixture of red and yellow) and the AR 2 would have a solid-yellow flag. This tradition seems to have stuck around only in England.

    A few of the old-guy referees I know who have been doing it for decades still have sets of flags with wooden poles, one red and one yellow.
     
  2. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    And a Fuchsia hanging in their closet.
     
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  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kamara’s red card is certainly what I’d say is a new, lower standard for England. I think it’s a red in a vacuum, but no way that gets given without VAR. And maybe not without a VAR trainer initially in Australia.

    Broken record, but the training and mechanics around VAR for England is pathetic. Could Graham Scott have looked any more aggrieved at or disinterested with the process?
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    VAR doesn't even flinch at 39' when Maguire bear hugs and wrestles an attacker to the ground who was going to receive a header. 100% penalty and no delay for an official check.

    Then they look at Rashford when two feet collide in the penalty area, a minute later.

    Mind-boggling. Absolutely mind-boggling. You basically have deliberate cheating to stop a quality goal-scoring opportunity and no one cares. How is that not the sort of foul that VAR was designed to catch?
     
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  5. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really, really bad miss IMO. It's a clear foul, and I would assume SPA.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the question is whether or not it's a miss in the EPL. I think, unfortunately, not. 100% given in MLS--no questions asked.

    And the search for consistency and objective standards not only continues, it grows, because the "clearly wrong" screen for secondary decision-making has been added and is also subjective.
     
  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More controversy in Liverpool. Sounds like a free kick was given against Liverpool, and the VAR determined the foul was on the PA line, but apparently there is a question of whether it was a foul at all. Have only seen the still frame so far.
     
  8. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    https://streamja.com/brOOj
     
  9. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can agree that it's inside the area (barely), but that's not a foul.

     
  10. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    You don't realize that penalties are supposed to be given for Man U., not against them. :D
    Lampard clearly knows this as well!

    PH
     
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  11. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    The foots on the line and it's not clear and obvious that isn't a foul. Liverpool getting screwed by VAR over and over isn't going to make their fans happy though.
     
  12. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I watched it a few times now, and I thought it was a foul, but I have no idea.
     
  13. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    All other Evertonians think it was a great decision though!

    PH
     
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  14. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Only the second time Mike Dean has ever Done a match at Anfield. He is from close by Wirral.
     
  15. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    Probably his last now.
     
  16. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    He used to be prevented from doing games with the Liverpool teams except for derbies. He was removed from a Cup final he was originally appointed to when Liverpool made it through. They must have relaxed the rules about this.
    (FYI, He is from the "Wirral Peninsula", the area between the rivers Mersey and Dee. It is not a specific location just a general area.
    There are lots of towns there. I think he is lives in one called Heswall.)

    PH
     
  17. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cold rainy night in Manchester. Maybe the ref thought Azpilicueta needed a cuddle.

    Yeah, I'm not helping. I dunno. Thought that no-call was crazy.
     
  18. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Pierre Head repped this.
  19. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    I guess having to cross one extra river makes all the difference. :D
    Ridiculous really. He's still the same person.

    PH
     
  20. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
  21. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    :rolleyes: Of course they do...
     
  22. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    While we agree it is not a goal, is his position enough?
    If he doesn't move I don't think his position is enough.
    He's not in a sightline.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The line of vision clause definitely doesn't apply.

    The obvious action which clearly impacts the ability of an opponent to play the ball is the one that would be triggering an offence here. So yes, he has to move to get to offside. Without any movement (either a "challenge," a "clear attempt to play the ball," or "an obvious action"), there's no offside offence.

    I'm actually not convinced in either direction based solely off the video linked to and the still photo presented. I'd need to see the video from the same angle as the still photo to have all the relevant information. Xhaka isn't attempting to play the ball or challenging for it, so for this to be offside, you need an obvious action from the attacker (yes, that clearly exists) which impacts the ability of an opponent to play the ball. That second part of the clause seems at least a little more debatable. Did Schemichel have any chance of getting to this and, if so, did the dummying action prevent him from getting to the ball? Given that it appears Xhaka is to Schmeichel's left and not directly in front of him, I'm not sure.

    Like I said, need to see the video from behind the goal to determine how close Xhaka and Schmeichel are to each other at the moment the ball passes them and Schmeichel goes to ground. In the absent of exculpatory information, I agree the call for offside should stand. But the image .5 seconds after the one posted above is the key.
     
  24. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watch this soon because videos from Arsenalist usually get taken down fairly quickly. It looks like Xhaka is actually trying to get out of the way. But I suppose that could still be ruled impeding. If the situation was reversed, I'd probably want offside flagged, but I wasn't sure which way VAR was going to go in real time.

    http://arsenalist.com/f/2018-19/lacazette-goal-called-back-2020-10-25.html
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's the same video as posted above in the streamable link. I'd like the see the video that actually shows the still frame that was pasted above.

    With that said, I have absolutely zero doubt that Xhaka is trying to get out of the way. The vital question is whether his attempt to get out of the way (which constitutes an "obvious action") impacts an opponent's (in this case Schmeichel's) ability to play the ball.

    The video suggests possibly yes while the still photo makes it seem equally possible that it did not. That's why I personally think you need the video from behind the goal (same angle as the posted still photo) to get anything close to a definitive answer.
     

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