2020-2021 England Referee Appointments (EPL+) [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Aug 28, 2020.

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  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #301 MassachusettsRef, Oct 19, 2020
    I genuinely don't know how to respond. So, other than this post, I won't.
     
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  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #302 PuckVanHeel, Oct 19, 2020
    Of course, when out of replies, press the hot key for the default "I have knowledge and you don't" reply.

    Truth of the matter is, scientifically researched evidence does exist for on field officiating, and there is little reason to assume it disappears behind the table (with the discretionary liberties being there, even more so the past decade since various leg breaks) ...

    Before running in circles and rambling on for longer, I leave it at that with my replies.
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #303 PuckVanHeel, Oct 19, 2020
    "The previous position was that if the referee saw an incident but took no action at the time then the FA were powerless to take retrospective action except in exceptional circumstances - for example the case of Ben Thatcher’s challenge on Pedro Mendes - that were dealt with as ‘bringing the game into disrepute’.

    But in March 2013 there was controversy when Wigan’s Callum McManaman escaped action for a reckless horror tackle on Newcastle’s Massadio Haidara after the referee admitted seeing the challenge fly in but said he did not get a good view of the full severity of the challenge.

    The FA set up an internal review and the next term introduced more flexible retrospective rules to avoid a repeat."

    https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport...w-retrospective-refereeing-work-what-11173785
     
  4. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    #304 Beau Dure, Oct 19, 2020
    There's no comparison of outrage in 2020, with social media firmly established in the mainstream, and 2010. Everything is amplified these days.

    Even if *you* ignore social media, broadcasters and journalists don't, and the impact sinks in. Same reason cable news has more influence than the ratings would warrant -- people watch and respond.
     
  5. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #305 balu, Oct 19, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2020
    "The VAR in charge of Saturday's controversial Merseyside derby did not check for a red card for Jordan Pickford after forgetting rules state he could review the incident despite the offside in the build-up...

    Remarkably, Sportsmail has been told Coote thought the offside — which he checked forensically — nullified what happened afterwards..."
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...eree-didnt-know-Jordan-Pickford-red-card.html

    Amazing.
     
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  6. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #306 yossarian, Oct 20, 2020
    I certainly realize it's a side issue and not relevant to whether Oliver and the VAR official screwed up, but as an Arsenal supporter, my recollection is much different than Delaney's with regard to the "outrage" expressed over the tackles on Eduardo and Ramsey. There was A LOT of talk from pundits about how Shawcross and Taylor "weren't those types of players" just "mistimed" tackles, etc., etc.
     
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  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #307 MassachusettsRef, Oct 20, 2020
    Everyone: we need to stop cut and pasting full articles or otherwise copyrighted material. Small passage and a link. Thank you!
     
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  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #308 PuckVanHeel, Oct 20, 2020
    In the post-Vieira years Arsenal was often the (elite) team with the lowest fouls committed. The result of the controversy was, rather simple, an increase in discretionary powers by the relevant committee since those leg and ankle breaks of several Arsenal players.

    They have used those increased liberties even in the opposite direction: Son was red carded for breaking Andre Gomes his leg (VAR was in use), which was very unfortunate and not a reckless, unnatural move by any means. Rather than hiding behind "the referee has seen and evaluated it", the red card was later voided.
     
  9. Ghastly Officiating

    Ghastly Officiating Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    #309 Ghastly Officiating, Oct 20, 2020
    Can someone direct me to where this is spelled out? I went through the LotG and couldn't find a direct statement. A friend suggested it was in the Considerations but I am still struggling to find it.
     
  10. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #310 balu, Oct 20, 2020
    Matchweek 6

    Aston Villa - Leeds
    Referee: Paul Tierney. Assistants: Dan Cook, Sian Massey-Ellis. Fourth official: Mike Dean. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Gary Beswick.

    West Ham - Man City
    Referee: Anthony Taylor. Assistants: Gary Beswick, Adam Nunn. Fourth official: David Coote. VAR: Peter Bankes. Assistant VAR: Neil Davies.

    Fulham - Crystal Palace
    Referee: Graham Scott. Assistants: Derek Eaton, Timothy Wood. Fourth official: Dean Whitestone. VAR: Jarred Gillett. Assistant VAR: Peter Kirkup.

    Man Utd - Chelsea
    Referee: Martin Atkinson. Assistants: Lee Betts, Constantine Hatzidakis. Fourth official: Jonathan Moss. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Simon Long.

    Liverpool - Sheffield
    Referee: Mike Dean. Assistants: Darren Cann, Mark Scholes. Fourth official: Andy Madley. VAR: Andre Marriner. Assistant VAR: Scott Ledger.

    Southampton - Everton
    Referee: Kevin Friend. Assistants: Simon Beck, Eddie Smart. Fourth official: Steve Martin. VAR: Simon Hooper. Assistant VAR: James Mainwaring.

    Wolves - Newcastle
    Referee: Lee Mason. Assistants: Marc Perry, Adrian Holmes. Fourth official: Darren Bond. VAR: Andy Madley. Assistant VAR: Richard West.

    Arsenal - Leicester
    Referee: Craig Pawson. Assistants: Ian Hussin, Harry Lennard. Fourth official: Graham Scott. VAR: Paul Tierney. Assistant VAR: Stephen Child.

    Brighton - West Brom
    Referee: Jonathan Moss. Assistants: Dan Robathan, Neil Davies. Fourth official: Gavin Ward. VAR: Martin Atkinson. Assistant VAR: Sian Massey-Ellis.

    Burnley - Tottenham
    Referee: Michael Oliver. Assistants: Stuart Burt, Simon Bennett. Fourth official: Kevin Friend. VAR: Craig Pawson. Assistant VAR: Adam Nunn.

    Atkinson for the Big Six clash, Taylor, Oliver, and Pawson with interesting games. Dean now seems clear to take charge of Liverpool.
     
  11. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #311 balu, Oct 20, 2020
    "Big Six" matches:

    Arsenal - Liverpool (Community Shield): Marriner
    Chelsea - Liverpool: Tierney
    Liverpool - Arsenal: Pawson
    Tottenham - Chelsea (Carabao Cup): Mason
    Liverpool - Arsenal (Carabao Cup): Friend
    Man Utd - Tottenham: Taylor
    Man City - Arsenal: Kavanagh
    Man Utd - Chelsea: Atkinson

    Distribution of these matches in the EPL:

    Atkinson: 1
    Kavanagh: 1
    Pawson: 1
    Taylor: 1
    Tierney: 1
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #312 MassachusettsRef, Oct 20, 2020
    What are you asking, exactly?

    I also wouldn't get too hung up on a tabloid using the verb "forgetting" here. It seems deliberately sensationalist
     
  13. Ghastly Officiating

    Ghastly Officiating Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    #313 Ghastly Officiating, Oct 20, 2020
    My question is where the specification that even if a play is offside, you can still give misconduct for a challenge that occurs after the offside offense. I’m having trouble locating where that is spelled out.
     
  14. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    #314 socal lurker, Oct 20, 2020
    Why would VC have anything at all to do with whether there was an OS infraction?
     
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  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #315 MassachusettsRef, Oct 20, 2020
    Oh. Two answers, then.

    First, before one of the more recent re-writes, there was language either in Law 5 or 12 about the referee disciplining players "according to the nature of the offence" or something like that. Honestly not sure if that's still in the text but I am sure that the principle isn't gone.

    But second and more importantly, this is still violent conduct if it's not SFP, right? You're looking for an argument or affirmation that we can punish a tackle after an offside decision, which is a specific argument that is analogous to the broader principle that we can punish violence after play is stopped. And, well, we can and do. If Pickford had punched Van Dijk in the face, I don't think you'd be looking for any specification in the text of the Laws.

    By the way, the two paragraphs above relate to the SFP v VC question that I earlier said (and still contend) is largely irrelevant, because I think both routes are perfectly valid here. But if the "nature of the offence" language doesn't suffice for someone, then it's still VC per the second paragraph.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #316 MassachusettsRef, Oct 20, 2020
    My second paragraph presented in question form and as one sentence!
     
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  17. Ghastly Officiating

    Ghastly Officiating Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    #317 Ghastly Officiating, Oct 20, 2020
    This answer was what I was looking for. I remember reading it phrased out somewhere, I just wanted to see if it was still around.
     
  18. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #318 RefIADad, Oct 20, 2020
    Like I said in a different forum, the Pickford challenge has to be a send-off. Whether you document the send-off as violent conduct or serious foul play, the result is the same (send-off and, in England, minimum three-match ban). I realize this is probably semantics, but absent any other information I would think SFP could be a proper categorization. Pickford went into the challenge assuming the ball was still "live". I think of violent conduct more as I'm running with you behind the play and I punch you or the ball is five yards out of play and I stomp on your leg as you are on the ground. Even though this play was eventually ruled as offside, Pickford was challenging for the ball.

    But in any case, the categorization of the send-off's nature is technical and administrative. The main idea is that Pickford should have been sent off regardless of the offside ruling.
     
  19. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    #319 Beau Dure, Oct 20, 2020
    Those of us still left in the journalism industry thank you.
     
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  20. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #320 balu, Oct 22, 2020
    "And Sportsmail understands the [Pickford] incident is almost certain to be one of a number of incidents reviewed by the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL)... at an annual meeting that takes place half way through the season.

    Part of the discussion... focuses on dissecting certain decisions that have taken place during the season, particularly ones that have caused confusion.

    Indeed, last weekend's contentious ruling at Goodison Park is highly likely to be selected as an example during the meeting scheduled for the early part of next year."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ot-send-Jordan-Pickford-Merseyside-derby.html
     
  21. LampLighter

    LampLighter Red Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    #321 LampLighter, Oct 23, 2020
    And they'll decide it probably should've been a red card, and then it'll happen again to someone else and the keeper will either get nothing or a yellow card. And on and on we go.
     
  22. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    #322 Bubba Atlanta, Oct 23, 2020
    No refereeing content (other than hearing a neon-yellow-jersey-wearing 4O addressed as "highlighter") but it is Premier League, or a simulation thereof -- my wife and I have really been enjoying Teddy Lasso on the Apple channel.
     
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  23. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    #323 AremRed, Oct 23, 2020
    Non-soccer referee friend had a stumper for me, so I figured someone here must know.

    What’s the story behind the differently colored and patterned AR flags in England? Is there an origin story there?
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #324 PuckVanHeel, Oct 23, 2020
  25. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    #325 Pierre Head, Oct 23, 2020
    The same way Pickford's assault on van Dyke was not a red card! :mad:

    PH
     
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