2019 Week 20 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. QuietSide

    QuietSide Member

    Oct 18, 2002
  2. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    The LA derby looks to be getting rather ‘hot’. 45’ mark on my stream. No glaring mistakes from Marrufo so far.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He’s done very well. Minor blip with allowing the wrong restart for a moment, but Frank Anderson saved him. All major decisions seem to be correct and he’s keeping a lid on a very challenging match with personality.

    He did miss the challenge that caught Atuna, now that I think about it. That could have been yellow. But not huge in the grand scheme of things.
     
    Thegreatwar repped this.
  4. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    Now there’s a rather unjustified scuffle, YC for one player from each side, which seems reasonable. (74th min)
     
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  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The challenge on Corona was not a good miss. One of those that is close to red on review but probably not close enough. Plus Stott likely knows Marrufo’s bar is going to be extra high there. But it was a dirty challenge.
     
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  6. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    About 81 min, Corona makes a sliding clearance and an opponent steps on his shin in a follow-through. Marrufo didn’t have a great angle, no-call. Three mins later an easy YC to Feltscher for a late tackle after a quick LAFC FK.
     
  7. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That looked like a yellow from Zlatan there, but I don't think a foul was called.
     
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  8. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This looks marginally offside.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ibrahimovic got away with a yellow at the end. Not enough for a red. But it was definitely yellow. I think Marrufo was probably telling him he probably got away with one.
     
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  10. Thegreatwar

    Thegreatwar Member

    Seacoast United
    May 28, 2015
    New Hampshire
    #35 Thegreatwar, Jul 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
    That 2nd goal for LAFC looks like one of those cases where the frame that the VAR pauses on is crucial.

    Edit: And that elbow from Zlatan looked quite deliberate.
     
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  11. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This play is one where I still struggle with offside being a truly “factual” decision. Regardless of the call on the field, I think you have to let it stand. I personally thought Vela was onside, but would not have argued an offside call.

    I’m still in favor of plays like this deferring to the call on the field because of video not being able to conclusively say the on field call was clearly wrong.
     
  12. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    Could it be the fact that he jumped and moved the arm was the reason for the call? I seem to recall instruction that if the player in the wall jumped and the ball hit his arm, it was a foul.

    Also, he brings the arm up as he jumps. The arm us definitely moving to the ball.
     
  13. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm still waiting to see if Rockwell can pull out the handball instruction from Russia...
     
  14. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great DOGSO send off by Sibiga in the Columbus-Montreal game. Not the hardest of fouls, but it denied a goal scoring opportunity. Brave, and correct call.
     
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  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Colorado personnel are insistent that NYC's winner should have been ruled out for offside, but it looks to be a pretty clear case of no offense to me. Heber doesn't challenge or otherwise affect Abubakar's attempted clearing header IMO.
     
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  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Such an easy call. So easy that it’s barely even a decision for the AR.

    This is the type of call some people were wrongly complaining about in the WWC. Old habits or ideas die hard. And losing teams look for scapegoats.
     
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  17. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think if you were right behind the goal it's understandable to be confused because the force perspective made it look like Heber challenged Abubakar from behind. Obviously the AR and the other cameras were able to see that was unquestionably not the case.
     
  18. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reminds me some of the first goal in Peru : Australia last year in the World Cup. I remember some fun arguments especially from fans.
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Red card in Colorado tonight went to 16y, 11m old Seb Anderson. We think he might be the youngest player to get a red in a MLS league match. Can anyone here think of somebody younger who saw red?
     
  20. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    ATL DC
    Refreshing seeing a goalkeeper drawn clearly off the line by a stutter step by the kicker taking a penalty, the ball sails over the crossbar, and the restart is a goal kick.
     
  21. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Hmm. If it isn't a feint at the ball, it's perfectly legal for the kicker to stutter, so the stuttter does not give the GK any additional leeway.

    But MLS is still playing with the old laws, so they aren't playing with "it's one foot on the line, but we really mean it!" It's going to be interesting to see if the VAR precision on this will come to MLS next year with implementation of the new Laws.

    I do think the stutter is going to grow as a strategy if the new precise restrictions on GKs remain, as it becomes that much more valuable to throw off the GK's timing.
     
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  22. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IFAB/FIFA has to do something about kickers on the penalty kick. The stutter step is very unfair to goalkeepers. I don't know what the answer is, but being able to stutter/stop is going to make it nearly impossible for keepers to stay on the line.
     
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  23. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    The second angle shows the point of contact is quite a bit worse than I had thought.
     
  24. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Taylor Twellman (yeah, I know) says the MLS DisCo is gonna take a look at that Zlatan elbow.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They'll take a look, sure. But for the DisCo to act, it has to not only be a "clear and unequivocal red card," it also must be "... from all available evidence, egregious or repeat behavior in nature, and/or such that the Committee must act to protect player safety or the integrity of the game." Oh, and the DisCo must believe it to be at least a 2-match suspension. This is either 2+ games or nothing.

    I was being generous Saturday. I thought/think it's red. But given the player involved, the match situation and the referee in question, I thought it would be yellow if seen or communicated by the AR. While I think it's red, I believe at least a few PRO referees would err on yellow.

    To me, that alone is enough for at least one member of the DisCo to punt, which is all you need. When you mix in the second standard and the fact that it must be a 2-match ban, even though Ibrahimovic has priors, it just seems like a bridge too far. Put bluntly, I don't think the league will allow it.

    But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

    .
     

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