2019 U17 World Cup cycle

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by kba4life1, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. Luksarus

    Luksarus Member

    United States
    Jul 27, 2018
    I would have liked to see Ramsey on this team. He is an absolute beast in defense. Wicky did not give him many opportunities.
     
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  2. bpet15

    bpet15 Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    What? Have you been to European and S American Academies?

    Whether you like it or not, these players are commodities and the sooner the player can come to grips with that, the better they will be.

    I would argue it is the lackadaisical attitude of our clubs and Federation that have put us where we are. These kids need to feel the pressure and 16 is not too young to do that.

    Kids this age across the world are competing for contracts at 16 and to be kept in a top notch Academy. What pressure do our kids play under? A playoff game? Give me a break.

    You think the performance of our U17 team was because they couldn’t handle the lights and the pressure? I agree with you completely. The soccer culture in which you are taking about is a lot of the problem. Kids around the world are training and playing everyday so they can buy their parents a house, so they can get out of poverty, so they can live a better life. That’s pressure and that’s what makes a player.

    I seriously can’t believe that you think American kids have too much pressure.
     
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  3. Runhard

    Runhard Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Jul 5, 2018
    I didn't take it as we put too much pressure on them but as we give them too much praise and credit when they haven't done Sh*t yet.

    Folks on twitter clamoring over a 15 year old and what country he will choose. Claiming a kid is can't miss Senior Team future stalwart when he farted and fell down at the U17 level. I have no problem with pressure, but think we should maybe ignore them and not heap so much praise on little Johnny until he does something. Yet here I am posting so what do I know.
     
  4. bpet15

    bpet15 Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    #1829 bpet15, Nov 4, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    Fair enough, but heaping praise, media attention and expectations are all part of the deal. A player can’t handle it, he won’t make it.

    No doubt some kids will get lazy as a result of seeing their name in lights at an early age, but others will press on harder because of it. If any kid falls off due to too much praise and getting a big head, that’s on the club for not being able to ensure the kids feet are kept on the ground.

    The sooner people realize that this is a business, and a multi billion dollar one at that, the better we will be. The participation trophies and making sure no one is put on a pedestal is part of the reason we are where we are.
     
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  5. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    This place is much better when your ilk go away after the big tournaments. The big tournaments bring out the abrasive people like you. People like you want to turn this into the sewer sections on this website.
     
  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    If it’s like it normally is, the 04’s will play at the Nike friendlies.
     
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  7. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Fans are not responsible for the success or failures of athletes. Like any avenue of life, people need to take individual responsibility in their lives.
     
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  8. bpet15

    bpet15 Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    I’ll do you one better. Fans, player rankings, agents, scouts, social media followers, journalists and soccer forum pundits are not responsible for the success or failure of athletes.
     
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  9. mitrecondors4life

    United States
    Aug 28, 2018
    I believe this year it's the 03's at the Nike Friendlies but they're also sending a squad of 02's who didn't make the WC because they could only get two other foreign national teams (Turkey and Portugal?).
     
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  10. kingshark

    kingshark Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    ignorant.
     
  11. bpet15

    bpet15 Member

    Oct 4, 2016
    Solid contribution.

    If someone had never seen KHF play before, is it really that far fetched they would think he was average off of his WC performances?
     
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  12. kingshark

    kingshark Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    I have watched the Pulisic (and Adams) cycle's USA U17 WC games, which were not better than this cycle, so calm down if you are too worried about future individuals.

    However, it has shown some obvious issues on our youth programs, and it was not about individuals, and also not about possession or not possession style. The fact is, fundamentally, we are still more amateur than other soccer countries at early age. Why our U20 always have better results at U20 WC? Even for our women's soccer, they are far better at U20 tournament than U17. And at U17 women's world cup, Asian teams dominant! I thought it is because our kids mature later at soccer tactics, and have some really bad behaviours at early age. We don't have a fundamentally strict soccer development environment, and our kids spent not as much time and soul at soccer than other countries. It's more like a cultural stuff. I don't know the launch of DA improved the environment or not. I thought the elite level are not improving at this moment, even though the good players' pool became enlarged. Our professional club youth development system need time to improve, that's why I thought an elite player camp or basement are still useful, helping the elite players to be familiar with a certain style and get extra drills.

    In the end, I really want to give a pass to some individual players of this cycle. They cannot shine if the entire group play amateur ball (I remembered Pulisic played just average at 2015 U17 WC). The most important thing to them is been brought into the professional environment ASAP, better go abroad like the last U20 cycle.
     
  13. kingshark

    kingshark Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    I don't mean the judgement on KHF. I thought he was poor at the tournament. But as I watched three full games this tournament and also 2015 U17 WC, I believe it's more than individuals. The player selection and the style we want to play are full of conflicts. Seems like players are from systems with so various soccer philosophy and got together to play another different ball. As I said, our kids develop late on soccer understanding, so transition between different styles and get alone with different types of teammates made this weakness more obvious.
     
  14. didi11

    didi11 Member

    Dec 13, 2013
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    That's perfectly fine you call me that. After all, I haven't seen enough of this group of players. However, I am involved with soccer for 40 some years, I know a good talent (doesn't even have to be super special one) when I see one. I don't need a lot to spot that. I even know how to train one.

    If you talk about Pulisic Haji Wright team didn't do that great, I have exactly opposite opinion. I am not talking about results. I thought they showed good signs of quickness (obviously pulisic), solid technique, and some creativity
    I don't see anything from KHF. Let's wait for 5 years and see if he is a starter on a good pro team. I seriously doubt it, I sincerely hope I'm dead wrong on this
     
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  15. kingshark

    kingshark Member+

    Mar 3, 2006
    40 years of what? You are just a guy who have your son played football, and then familiar with some soccer coaches and scouts, so come on you are still a soccer fan. So when you say you know the talents while just watching some highlights or having a glimpse of them, I call you are ignorant, just like typical Chinese soccer fans as they all think they're are professional soccer coaches and scouts.

    For Pulisic cycle, I watched full games, thought they played ugly as well. People tend to remember the recent bad things. And do you compare attacking players like Pulisic to defender like KHF? How about to compare Nelson/Trusty to KHF? You really think he as the same position more skillful or creative than KHF?
     
  16. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1841 autobus39, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
    I guess this belongs in the 2021 U-20 thread (or a 2021 cycle U-19 thread I guess)?

     
  17. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I am sure it's possible that some players get big heads early and lose motivation as a result, but that certainly not a uniquely American issue, and neither is hype. Barcelona, which can afford to be so selective that, statistically speaking, virtually no player on Earth is qualified to play there, just a few hours ago tweeted highlights of its '07s playing a game against a team from a fourth-division club. (Guess what: Barcelona won!)
     
  18. Luksarus

    Luksarus Member

    United States
    Jul 27, 2018
  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Scalley just got sold for millions to BMG, the current #1 team in Bundesliga.
     
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  20. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For those keeping track, while the US got its butt kicked and headed home with its tail between its legs, Mexico is in the final. Oh joy.
     
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  21. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    #1846 David Kerr, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
    you have to look at the end game now. Mexico has won 2 u17 World Cup's. 41 players were involved between their 2 winning teams. Out of those 41 players only 5 went on to get more than 10 senior caps for El Tri. The only ones who became regulars were Carlos Vela, Gio Dos Santos, and Hector Moreno. Not a single player from their 2011 winning squad has become a regular for their senior team. Yes in the tournament's they have been successful, but overall their youth program has been a failure. We may produce three USMNT regulars from this u17 team alone, the 2000's may have 4 in Sargent, Weah, Dest, and Gloster. Even half of the age eligible players from Mexico's Olympic gold metal team didn't even make the jump to their senior team. This is exactly why you do not damn an entire youth program because of u17 or u20 results. What matters is that we discover, develop, and funnel along the high end talent.
     
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  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Wow - that’s a very interesting insight. Thanks.
     
  23. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Generally player turnover from the u17's to senior teams are horrible but Mexico is significantly worse than other countries about it. If only we had someone in Ussoccer who could go point this out to Efra before they cap tie him and bury his national team career.
     
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  24. Quaker

    Quaker Member

    FC Dallas
    Apr 19, 2000
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US arguably outplayed Mexico in the CONCACAF final only to lose in extra time. What a different trajectory the last six months...
     
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  25. LAFEFUT

    LAFEFUT Member

    Mexico
    Mar 13, 2018
    The US played aggressive with no tactical idea in that final. Mexico adjusted and built up the plays on their 2 goals. Massive difference.

    You can't claim shoulda, woulda etc.. after statistically coming in last in the entire tournament (right above Solomon Islands). Every other U17 WC team scored more than 1 goal. There were other teams who had 7 or 8 GA but at least they had 3-4 GF. A little self reflection and acknowledging there is A LOT of work to be done.
     

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