2019/? Ritsu Doan @ PSV Eindhoven (NED)

Discussion in 'Japanese Abroad' started by Keren, Aug 27, 2019.

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  1. Whispered11

    Whispered11 Member+

    U.C. Sampdoria
    Japan
    Oct 4, 2011
    Munich, Germany
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    With Mitoma, Minamino, Kubo and Ito, I don't know if I would drop any of them for Doan. Surely though it's nice to see his career progressing and Gladbach would be a good step.
     
  2. Tonel

    Tonel Member

    Sporting
    Aug 22, 2021
    Doan scored the opening goal for PSV vs Willem today

    PSV currently up 4-2
     
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  3. NaohiroTakahara

    NaohiroTakahara Member+

    Nov 12, 2013
    Ritsu Doan to Mainz 05 is almost done. Good move to a actually good club.

    But I think Eindhoven is way better with safe European League or even Champions League and get to fight for the title in the league every year.

    But Mainz and Bundesliga is also good.
     
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  4. Tonel

    Tonel Member

    Sporting
    Aug 22, 2021
    Yeah in terms of local competition within their own league, PSV are a more fundamentally strong club. I would even go as far as say they're a bigger club with their history of winning domestic titles and trophies and player development.

    But PSV are also a big fish in a smaller pond, whereas Mainz are in what's generally accepted as a stronger league. PSV also operate in a model where they need to sell talent to keep functioning
     
  5. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
  6. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Ritsu Doan will not get better or improve by playing against the likes of Cambuur, Fortuna Sittard, and Sparta Rotterdam, with all due respect.

    In Netherlands PSV is only playing 10 challenging matches per season, while in Germany almost all the matches Mainz playing are challenging.

    It is quite clear which place is better for the player to get his football to the next level.
     
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  7. Challenging matches isnot the same as matches against qualiy opponents.
    Does Mainz play European football? The opponents PSV encounters in European cup matches by far are better than the BuLi clubs down from spot 7.
     
  8. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    By challenging matches I meant matches against quality opponents, which are more by huge amount if you compare German league to Dutch league.

    Playing in Europa League and Europa Conference league does not mean you are facing better opponents compared to Bundesliga.

    Champions from minor football nations such as: Armenia, Albania, Israel, and Kazakhastan are not quality opponents.

    Unless you are playing Champions league football every year, then your arguments might stand, but again it is most probably 6 matches in UCL + 8-10 matches in the league, even if you count matches in EL and ECL (and excluded matches with minor teams), a team like PSV will have a total number of 20 challenging matches vs. quality opponents, while teams in German Bundesliga will have 30+ quality matches per season just in the domestic league.

    No way to compare.

    This year a team ranked 11th in the German Bundesliga (Eintracht Frankfurt) made it to the EL final. This is a manifestation of how strong the Bundesliga is.

    Can a Dutch team apart from Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, and to a lesser extent AZ Alkmaar do what German, Spanish, and English teams outside the top 6 spots in their domestic league do in European competitions?
     
  9. Your argument as the strength of the BuLi that nr 11 made it to the final means that all other clubs above them were eliminated in the UEFA competitions. So it's more a freak appearance than a sign of strength. All German clubs in confrontations with Dutch clubs were eliminated.
    Check out which clubs eliminated German clubs this year in the UEFA competitions. It werenot all from top countries.
     
  10. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Is there a team in the Dutch top division (apart from teams in the top 6 or top 7) who has similar quality to Stuttgart, who is currently ranked 16th in the German Bundesliga?

    There is no disparity in the German Bundesliga between most of the teams (if you excluded Bayern Munich, who is a cut above the rest), a team ranked in the lower half of the table in Germany can easily compete for EL and ECL spots in Germany (places in the top 6).

    While in the Dutch league there is a very huge gap in quality between the likes of Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, AZ Alkmaar, and to a lesser extent: Utrecht and Vitesse and the rest.

    Teams like Cambuur, Fortuna Sittard, or Groningen will struggle even in the German 2. Bundesliga.

    This is why the likes of PSV and Ajax can focus on European competitions and defeat teams from bigger leagues as they barely need to put energy in their domestic league matches except in 8-10 matches per season. Hence, players cannot get better by playing in the Dutch league (unless they are youngsters and need to develop themselves before heading to bigger leagues).

    Eintracht Frankfurt is not an outlier, teams from England, Spain, and Germany usually do well and progress to advanced stages in European competitions regardless of their league positions.

    Villareal won the EL last season while finishing 7th in the league, Eintracht Frankfurt made it to SF of the EL couple of years ago while being in the lower half of the table in their domestic league, and I can give you many examples of teams from top leagues doing well in European competitions even if they are being placed outside of the top 7 or outside the top half of the table in the domestic league.

    Now, can any Dutch team apart from Ajax, PSV, and Feyenoord do the same in European competitions?

    As for Dutch teams defeating German teams in European competitions, well, you are speaking about teams from the top 3 or top 4 in Netherlands facing teams outside the top 4 or even the top 7 (at some point) in the German league.

    For proper comparison, just imagine Bayern Munich or Borussia Dortmund playing against Vitesse or Utrecht, how the result will look like?

    Yet, PSV Eindhoven, despite being a tilte challenger in their domestic league were knocked out against Leicester City (currently 11th or 12th in the EPL).

    With all due respect but the overall quality and challenge level in the Dutch league compared to the German Bundesliga is a joke.
     
  11. Your point is that Doan will develop better at Mainz than at PSV, based on the opposition in the BuLi.
    He came back to PSV from a loan in the BuLi.
    Yet he struggled for months and only this year was back in the regular team set up.
    So instead of being benefitted with that awesome experience in the BuLi he needed months to come back to the level needed to play in PSV's first team.
    If your statement was true he wouldnot need months to adapt back to PSV's level.
     
  12. seolseol

    seolseol Member+

    Apr 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Bundesliga is a better league. By far. Not even a discussion
     
  13. It is of course, but the argument is whether Doan is better placed at PSV or at Mainz. The points given why he would are questionable.
    Just the argument of BuLi clubs performance in Europe.
    The Netherlands this year got so many points we surpass Portugal in the UEFA coefficiency ranking, we will take their 6th spot and now are threatening France for their 5th spot.
    As has been stated clubs in the BuLi below the top 6 are more or less on even ground, which means most of them at the same time are fighting for a Euro spot and fighting relegation. Those clubs have no time to "develop", it's deliver or you're benched for players. At PSV he's in a completely different development environment. When you donot play UEFA competitions like Mainz, trainings arenot going to be geared to prepare for different style of play from different countries.
    You simply will miss the exposure to unfamiliar playstyles, which is important for for instance national team matches.
    If Doan would move to a club with European confrontations that would be an improvement. This move would only (an important one though) be a big improvement moneywise.
     
  14. Tonel

    Tonel Member

    Sporting
    Aug 22, 2021
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  15. NaohiroTakahara

    NaohiroTakahara Member+

    Nov 12, 2013
    Close to a Move to SC Freiburg. Apparently to dutch media, the move will be done next week.

    Fee ist around to be 8,5 Mio €. Would be the clubs second most record Transfer.

    Great move for Doan, Freiburg, Streich as a Coach and Europa League.
     
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  16. teioh

    teioh Member+

    Apr 17, 2012
    I hope these moves are smart, they simply need to find a decent place where collect consistent time as a starter for the next 5 months.
     
  17. NaohiroTakahara

    NaohiroTakahara Member+

    Nov 12, 2013
    Christian Streich is an exzellent coach and Freiburg is an excellent club with a familiar ground.

    Players can progress and grow in an positive atmosphere here. A very good move for Doan, maybe the best choice he could made.

    At the end of the day every player take some risk to be not a starter when he comes to a new club. Its up to him.
     
  18. NaohiroTakahara

    NaohiroTakahara Member+

    Nov 12, 2013
    Doan to Freiburg for 8,5-9 Mio € is almost done. Today he is in Freiburg and getötet through the medical. It should be official today or tomorrow.
     

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