08/21/19 New York City FC vs Columbus Crew Yankee Stadium (7PM ET) REF: Allen Chapman AR1: Brian Dunn AR2: Nick Uranga 4TH: Lorant Varga VAR: Geoff Gamble AVAR: Gjovalin Bori D.C. United vs New York Red Bulls Audi Field (8PM ET) REF: Ismail Elfath AR1: Frank Anderson AR2: Corey Rockwell 4TH: Matt Franz VAR: Chico Grajeda AVAR: Ian McKay Los Angeles FC vs San Jose Earthquakes Banc of California Stadium (10:30PM ET) REF: Kevin Stott AR1: Chris Wattam AR2: Jeremy Hanson 4TH: Alejandro Mariscal VAR: Ricardo Salazar AVAR: Apolinar Mariscal 08/22/19 Sporting Kansas City vs Minnesota United Children’s Mercy Park (9:30PM ET) REF: Rubiel Vazquez AR1: Ian Anderson AR2: Kyle Atkins 4TH: Sergii Demianchuk VAR: Sorin Stoica AVAR: Fabio Tovar 08/23/19 Orlando City vs Atlanta United Exploria Stadium (8PM ET) REF: Nima Saghafi AR1: Kathryn Nesbitt AR2: Corey Parker 4TH: Kevin Broadley VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero AVAR: Jozef Batko Portland Timbers vs Seattle Sounders Providence Park (10PM ET) REF: Jair Marrufo AR1: Jeff Hosking AR2: Jose Da Silva 4TH: Lukasz Szpala VAR: Edvin Jurisevic AVAR: Joshua Patlak 08/24/19 New York City FC vs New York Red Bulls Yankee Stadium (7PM ET) REF: Kevin Stott AR1: Eric Boria AR2: Andrew Bigelow 4TH: Silviu Petrescu VAR: Tim Ford AVAR: Peter Balciunas New England Revolution vs Chicago Fire Gillette Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: Alex Chilowicz AR1: Cory Richardson AR2: CJ Morgante 4TH: Marcos Deoliveira VAR: Alan Kelly AVAR: Claudiu Badea Philadelphia Union vs D.C. United Talen Energy Stadium (7:30PM ET) REF: Christopher Penso AR1: Philippe Briere AR2: Gianni Facchini 4TH: Elijio Arreguin VAR: Jose Carlos Rivero AVAR: Thomas Supple Toronto FC vs Montreal Impact BMO Field (7:30PM ET) REF: Baldomero Toledo AR1: Frank Anderson AR2: Eric Weisbrod 4TH: Robert Sibiga VAR: Jorge Gonzalez AVAR: Jeff Muschik Real Salt Lake vs Colorado Rapids Rio Tinto Stadium (10PM ET) REF: Ted Unkel AR1: Jeremy Hanson AR2: Jason White 4TH: Alejandro Mariscal VAR: Dave Gantar AVAR: Craig Lowry San Jose Earthquakes vs Vancouver Whitecaps Avaya Stadium (10PM ET) REF: Ramy Touchan AR1: Corey Rockwell AR2: Chris Elliott 4TH: Michael Radchuk VAR: Chico Grajeda AVAR: Fabio Tovar 08/25/19 FC Cincinnati vs Columbus Crew Nippert Stadium (6PM ET) REF: Joe Dickerson AR1: Adam Wienckowski AR2: Kevin Klinger 4TH: Elvis Osmanovic VAR: Sorin Stoica AVAR: Jonathan Johnson FC Dallas vs Houston Dynamo Toyota Stadium (8PM ET) REF: Armando Villarreal AR1: Ian Anderson AR2: Eduardo Mariscal 4TH: Rubiel Vazquez VAR: Ricardo Salazar AVAR: Adam Garner Los Angeles FC vs LA Galaxy Banc of California Stadium (10:30PM ET) REF: Allen Chapman AR1: Brian Poeschel AR2: Nick Uranga 4TH: Michael Radchuk VAR: Edvin Jurisevic AVAR: Cameron Blanchard
Wayne Rooney sent off in the 24th minute via VAR for what looks like a forearm to the face during a corner kick. This is about as clean cut as they're going to get. Following Video Review, Wayne Rooney is issued a red card.0-1 #DCvRBNY | #RBNY pic.twitter.com/sQXfqeOn41— New York Red Bulls (@NewYorkRedBulls) August 22, 2019
Did Elfath award a PK? Did he conclude the contact happened before the ball was put into play? Or did they screw up the restart? The highlights on the MLS website don’t show a PK attempt so I’m assuming one of the latter two.
No PK so I'm assuming he called it as happening before the ball went into play. After everything NYRB had another corner.
Looking at the full replay from Unimas, the contact was extremely close to when the kick was taken. It was hard to see definitively on the wide shot viewing from my phone. It my have been one of those where the very initial contact was before the ball was kicked, though it was finished off afterwards.
Ignoring the text of the tweet, can someone here explain how this is a penalty? I see contact, but it appears entirely incidental. There was no on field VAR check either. The refs had a nightmare there, he has to look at the VAR footage himself #DCvRBNY #DCUnited #NYRB #MLS #Referee #Elfath pic.twitter.com/mAE3wDgTAx— TimForAlI 🇬🇧🇺🇦 (@timmyvoe) August 22, 2019
An argument for a penalty was the defender cut across the back of the attacker in order to get goal side for a better defensive positioning. He did that rather quickly and sloppily and as a result ended up clipping the attacker. Then it’s a decision on how significant the contact was.
He cuts behind the attacker, and in doing so carelessly trips the opponent by clipping the right foot, causing the opponent to stumble and fall. Even if the VAR happens to think the contact was trifling and didn't have an effect on attacker's run, surely it's not a clear and obvious error worthy of on-field review: contact on the right foot, player goes down when he attempts to step with that foot It's a credible call IMO.
But maybe not. We can’t put everything on VARs. If there was contact, and no play on the ball, then it’s not “clearly wrong.” In fact, by letter of the law it could be deemed “correct.” VARs aren’t supposed to re-referee the match. IFAB just forcefully reiterated this yesterday. If it’s a poor or soft but defensible call, then blame falls to the on-field referee team. VARs aren’t supposed to fix every poor or undesirable call, just the grave injustices that rise to the level of “clearly wrong.” Now, from a practical standpoint, given how handball and offside and some holding offences for PKs are treated, that idea is going to be laughable for most fans. And that’s one of the inherent problems with the VAR system. A VAR is sitting in a booth tasked with getting every single handball offence down to a black or white science, while also only tasked with making sure a call like this has some level of defense to it. The discrepancy is huge and the problem should be readily apparent. Fans are going to expect calls like this to be “fixed” even if VARs are specifically told not to address them.
@MassachusettsRef, even the players have issues with the discrepancy. There’s no question that @PROreferees have a hard job officiating games...but you have VAR. SO PUT YOUR EGOS ASIDE AND GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE TO LOOK WITH YOUR OWN EYES TO CORRECT MISSED CALLS. https://t.co/0kBy6SH5n7— Paul Arriola (@PaulArriola) August 22, 2019
Of course they do. The problem is inherent. It’s part of the slippery slope argument that many skeptics were raising from the beginning. The technology is there to help correct clearly wrong decisions. So of course people are going to want to use it to correct somewhat wrong or soft or very doubtful decisions. It’s human nature. Hell, “clearly wrong” being the standard allows for simply “wrong” decisions to stand. And since there’s no real objective line in the sand, defending non-interventions is difficult.
Yep. I would agree with all of this. Like, take last night and Tarek's 2CT for NYRB. That's not reviewable, but if it was, I could see it being easily overturned (I said in another forum that Arriola earned that foul more than Tarek committed it). On the other side, United had two pretty big penalty shouts (one where Birnbaum got shoved in the back on a restart, and for a ball to hand situation), and there didn't even appear to be a VAR check where you could see Elfath talking with Grajeda about it. I'd like to think I have a decent grasp of what's going on, having refereed in a past life and having a passing idea of what goes on during the game. But the lack of consistency is maddening.
Looks like Rooney has had just about enough of MLS that he it wouldn't be surprising if he got himself sent off on purpose. Just smashing someone in the face 20 minutes into the game with your elbow? Sounds like a guy who didn't want to be there. I suspect the Elfath penalty will be deemed "clearly wrong" by PRO and they will want an intervention there.
Also, in one injured RB player instance (of many), even though the trainers came out and were on field for a significant amount of time, Elfath didn't force the player to leave the pitch before resuming play. And then he kept another RB player off for an exceedingly long amount of time, but didn't seem to add the additional "injury" time to the already assessed total. And, I think his first yellow to Amerikwa was harsh, which explains why he didn't give Amerikwa another yellow for a foul definitely more deserving. Game management is apparently not a thing they teach, because it's so bad....
If you're hurt on a play that was deemed a foul, you don't have to leave the pitch after receiving treatment any more.
Deemed misconduct, not a foul. And starting next season in MLS (and this season elsewhere), if a penalty kick is awarded and an otherwise injured player is to take the penalty kick, they can also receive treatment and stay on the field. Interestingly, the injury doesn't have to be a result of the foul that led to the penalty kick.
For some reason, I thought it was just a foul that let the player stay on, not just misconduct. I'll have to pay more attention next time.
Never in a million years will PRO want a review for the penalty. The contact is way too obvious, and the defender takes a risk by cutting behind the attacker.
And of course there's the inconsistent application of VAR intervention and no apparent clear agreement on what clear and obvious means. I think that leaves everyone scratching their heads. Do we think Almeyda will get extra games or just a big fine for refusing to leave the field? He obviously lost his mind, but he did have a point about the handling since Stott allowed the ball back into play without a clear indication that a check had been completed one way or the other.